How does a scale become musical?

[Marcus]

The thing about not starting a solo on the root is good advice, just becoming aware of some of this stuff myself !

Thanks for starting this thread

I went to see Victor Wooten in Glasgow last year, I was bewildered with his solo-ing ability. One of the lads I went with is totally on the ball with theory and is an awesome player. He told me that any good player has a box of musical phrases that they can trot out in any key, most of their "improv" solo's are combinations of these phrases. Made sense to me....

I bet most of us could identify a Jaco, Clarke, King or Miller solo after a couple of note. I guess it's because of their "typical" box of musical phrases executed with "their" technique. The fact of it is, most of us will never invest the time needed to develop this approach.

I'm just a copycat too.......

[allighatt0r]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just trying to rationalise this all into something I can understand a bit easier.

I need to spend time playing, and get into my head how notes sound when played together, (e.g. going from 2nd to 7th may sound upbeat and bright, whereas 7th to 6th may sound unhappy), and once I have this knowledge, I need it to be something I don't really think about, and can use in my own individual style...

I need to develop my understanding, pull apart other peoples solos and analyse why they work, and use that understanding later on.

[mcgraham]

Not even necessarily when played together. Bear in mind that if you're playing in a given key (with or without accompanying music actually playing) then you've already got a sonic backdrop or musical context in which your notes have an effect. Once you've learned a few scales, try switching between them i.e. play E major, then E minor, then E dorian, E harmonic major, etc etc, and start to highlight [i]why[/i] they each sound different, and which notes are primarily responsible for 'making' that scale sound the way it does. After you start getting into that, you start to realise scales are only tools that can help lead you to forming musical ideas, and that you shouldn't be bound by those set patterns.

You don't have to be overly pretentious with the assigning words, I just found it a useful way to start learning what sounded like what, helping me to make something substantially musical out of those notes.

For learning what works, transcription (as said above) is good. Try this: find a bit of a song you like, identify what you like about it and what draws you in, learn to play it, then try to insert elements of that into your playing. I'll give you a simple example (mainly guitar based): I like the stereotypical blues/rock guitar phrase of bending the 3rd up to the 4th, holding for a count and releasing to the 3rd, i.e. in the key of A minor, bending the C to a D, holding for a count and then dropping into a wide vibrato on the C. It's the extreme tension, build and release that I really connect with. I then learned to play it, and I frequently use the pattern of bending up and landing on a note below (or above) in a similar fashion to achieve the elements that I connect with. Listen to any blues or rock based guitarist (*ahem* Satriani) and you'll hear that it's littered with that one idea or rehashings of it.

That method is probably more to do with phrasing, but it will certainly help you make what you learn your own.

Mark

[jakenewmanbass]

The advice so far is great, I'll try to give you a nugget to go on with.
Scales are for muscle memory, the music is from you and what you have absorbed from outside sources.
Jake

[XB26354]

From the excellent Jazz Theory Book: "scales are a[i]n available pool of notes[/i]". Also: "When playing minor harmony, think [i]key[/i], not chord."

[urb]

[quote name='Marcus' post='207800' date='May 28 2008, 08:54 AM']The thing about not starting a solo on the root is good advice, just becoming aware of some of this stuff myself !

Thanks for starting this thread

I went to see Victor Wooten in Glasgow last year, I was bewildered with his solo-ing ability. One of the lads I went with is totally on the ball with theory and is an awesome player. He told me that any good player has a box of musical phrases that they can trot out in any key, most of their "improv" solo's are combinations of these phrases. Made sense to me....

I bet most of us could identify a Jaco, Clarke, King or Miller solo after a couple of note. I guess it's because of their "typical" box of musical phrases executed with "their" technique. The fact of it is, most of us will never invest the time needed to develop this approach.

I'm just a copycat too.......[/quote]


There's some - if not a lot - of truth in your comments here. I won't repeat what's been said elsewhere but someone like Wooten has spent an entire lifetime (he started playing when he was 2 and I think he just turned 40) creating his own musical 'universe' that, while it may contain plenty of 'licks', he can play these in any and every key or tempo - and that's something that every jazzer tries to practice as well - as they are always told 'now play that in all 12 keys' - which in spite of being a mammoth task, eventually gives you huge amounts of freedom. In any musical situation.

The other comment you made about recognising certain players within a note or two of hearing them is the other hugely important aspect of developing a musical approach to theory etc - is your tone. The most obvious example would be a singer whose voice is instantly recognisable, just from a single 'sound' or syllable - it's so important to develop your own way of playing that enables you to clearly express what you want to 'say' musically. Gear is certainly part of that equation, but using Wooten as an example again, put him on a P bass and he still sounds like Victor Wooten, as a lot of the control and execution of tone comes from your fingers. A great bass can just help that process along.

Anyway - learn those melodies, solos, bass lines, chord sequences through transcribing and then try and pulll in the theory side of things to see how it all fits together. It does take a lot of work, but it's so worth it in the end.

Enough rambling cack from me - there's loads of great advice - and questions - here so far, nice one people.

Cheers

Mike

[allighatt0r]

Thank you thank you thank you for all the great advice, and the patience to keep giving it.