ChickenKiev Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I am currenty oogling over a few items of gear I really really want to get my hands on, but my searching has been halted by a little lack of knowledge about pre-amps. Okay, so I'm looking to pick up a bass that has an onboard pre-amp (I'm correct by saying that the pickups themselves are passive, but the pre-amp makes them sorta pseudo-active, right?) but I've also seen Tech21's VT Bass V2 pedal, which I believe is an overdrive pedal/pre-amp if my understanding is correct. My question is this; if I plugged a bass with an onboard pre-amp into an external pre-amp, can I expect explosions? Any feedback would be great, thanks. Kiev. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 No, worst that could happen is you'll get some extra distortion from the overdrive pedal that you'll be able to get rid of by turning down the bass and/or input gain on pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenKiev Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Okay thanks . Extra distortion isn't a bad thing! Reading more in-depth into the VT Bass V2, I actually don't think it's a pre-amp. It's just an effect pedal that tries to emulate an amp. I just think I got a bit confused when it started talking about amp this, amp that. It's still handy to know incase I wanted to add a pre-amp to my rig. I'm looking for MY bass sound and in my head that's a grungy, grinding sort of tone, so the VT Bass + some sort of pre-amp is what I'm looking for (a tone hammer perhaps?). I'm also looking into stainless steel strings too. Apparently they're perfect for the sortof 'clanky' sound I'm looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 No but what you are going to get is two lots of active EQ which may or may not conflict depending on how you have them adjusted. I'm not a big fan of on-board pre-amps for basses, because I believe that you should EQ once in your signal chain and do it at the point where it is most effective. This normally means at your amp. It is generally the place where the least amount of restrictions have been imposed on the circuit design, either from power requirements or space. Any compromises in the EQ on your amp have been done because the designer wanted to, not because they had to through lack of space or the need to power it off 9V batteries, and IMO if you can't get a decent sound out of just your amp, then it is the wrong one for you, and you should change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) [quote name='ChickenKiev' timestamp='1364209609' post='2023108'] Reading more in-depth into the VT Bass V2, I actually don't think it's a pre-amp. [/quote] You certainly can use a VT Bass as a pre-amp. I used one as a pre into my power amp and it was great. I'm currently using a DHA VT1 EQ as a pre-amp and it's fantastic. Edited March 25, 2013 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1364210113' post='2023115'] No but what you are going to get is two lots of active EQ which may or may not conflict depending on how you have them adjusted. I'm not a big fan of on-board pre-amps for basses, because I believe that you should EQ once in your signal chain and do it at the point where it is most effective. This normally means at your amp. It is generally the place where the least amount of restrictions have been imposed on the circuit design, either from power requirements or space. Any compromises in the EQ on your amp have been done because the designer wanted to, not because they had to through lack of space or the need to power it off 9V batteries, and IMO if you can't get a decent sound out of just your amp, then it is the wrong one for you, and you should change it. [/quote] I totally agree with exactly half that I don't think the eq in the bass will conflict with the eq in the pedal. After all, you can always just set one flat. And I don't agree that you should only EQ once. A typical recording chain might see eq applied by a Sansamp, the desk, then eqd again in mixdown, at mastering and finally by the (shudder) graphic equaliser in the car. And if using a pedal makes the amp you already own sound great, why buy a new amp? The bits I do agree with, fwiw, are: I don't go for onboard eq for the same reasons as bigREDex, and share his less-is-more philosophy. If it was grinding and clanking I was after I'd go for a Sansamp, or an Ampeg SVP pro. And a Precision with new stainless steel roundwounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenKiev Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Thinking about it, I might end up with active EQ in three places; bass, pedal, amp. Hm. Fingers crossed I'd just have to work with all the EQ settings until I get something that sounds decent. As for the amp, it's a Hartke 3500 head, and I love it. It's already sounding lovely but the sound I want can only be achieved with some careful pedal selection I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenKiev Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Would I be able to use an Ampeg SVP Pro with my Hartke 3500 head? Sorry I'm probably sounding like a complete and utter noob-nugget right now.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 [quote name='ChickenKiev' timestamp='1364220541' post='2023333'] Would I be able to use an Ampeg SVP Pro with my Hartke 3500 head? Sorry I'm probably sounding like a complete and utter noob-nugget right now.. [/quote] Yes you could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenKiev Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Alright, thanks everyone for the help. I think that answers all my questions..for now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) [quote name='ChickenKiev' timestamp='1364220541' post='2023333'] Would I be able to use an Ampeg SVP Pro with my Hartke 3500 head? Sorry I'm probably sounding like a complete and utter noob-nugget right now.. [/quote] If you do, you may wish to plug it in via the return of the Hartke's fx loop. That'll bypass the Hartke's own pure and eq completely. Did it with my SVP pro and a Trace head, and it worked rather well. Edited March 27, 2013 by Lfalex v1.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenKiev Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share Posted March 27, 2013 Alright thanks, I'll definitely give it a go if i decide to pick one up! I do hate sounding like a complete novice at this stuff, but I suppose there's no time like the present to learn all of this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 [quote name='bremen' timestamp='1364212961' post='2023176'] I totally agree with exactly half that I don't think the eq in the bass will conflict with the eq in the pedal. After all, you can always just set one flat. And I don't agree that you should only EQ once. A typical recording chain might see eq applied by a Sansamp, the desk, then eqd again in mixdown, at mastering and finally by the (shudder) graphic equaliser in the car. And if using a pedal makes the amp you already own sound great, why buy a new amp? The bits I do agree with, fwiw, are: I don't go for onboard eq for the same reasons as bigREDex, and share his less-is-more philosophy. If it was grinding and clanking I was after I'd go for a Sansamp, or an Ampeg SVP pro. And a Precision with new stainless steel roundwounds [/quote] I don't know where you've been recording, but my favoured method is a nice mic on the best sounding speaker in my rig, which will ideally capture the sound that I have carefully tailored to fit with the rest of the instruments in my band. As a safety I'll also take a passive DI feed directly from the bass that can be used for re-amping either in the box or using my amp if the sounds of the song take a different direction once we come to do the mixing. Any EQ applied in the mixing process is nearly always cutting frequencies to give the bass it's own space in the overall band soundscape, and mastering EQ is applied to the whole track so IMO doesn't count. IMO the best sounding instruments are ones where the creative use of EQ (as opposed to corrective) has been applied in a single place in the signal chain at a point where there is the minimum amount of compromise on the components used. This to me means a nice amp or channel strip, not an on-board pre-amp or something fitted into a pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChickenKiev Posted March 27, 2013 Author Share Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) Okay, I'll bare that in mind when it comes to demo/EP time with the band. I'd have to sit with the band while making my sound anyway to make sure it cuts properly. Another quick question, although it has already been partially answered, but what if I added multiple preamps to my rig? For instance say a Rusty Box + Darkglass B7K + the bass' onboard preamp? In theory I think the Rusty Box, B7K and the VT Bass V2 will give me the unholy trinity of sexy metal grunty distortion. Still no issues in terms of destroying amps? Edited March 27, 2013 by ChickenKiev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassPimp66 Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1364211425' post='2023144'] You certainly can use a VT Bass as a pre-amp. I used one as a pre into my power amp and it was great. I'm currently using a DHA VT1 EQ as a pre-amp and it's fantastic. [/quote] Same here. You can drive a power amp with a VT bass pedal. Not sure, it's exactly how it should be used from a gain/impedance perspective. But, it does sound great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 28, 2013 Share Posted March 28, 2013 [quote name='ChickenKiev' timestamp='1364207829' post='2023078'] I am currenty oogling over a few items of gear I really really want to get my hands on, but my searching has been halted by a little lack of knowledge about pre-amps. Okay, so I'm looking to pick up a bass that has an onboard pre-amp (I'm correct by saying that the pickups themselves are passive, but the pre-amp makes them sorta pseudo-active, right?) but I've also seen Tech21's VT Bass V2 pedal, which I believe is an overdrive pedal/pre-amp if my understanding is correct. My question is this; if I plugged a bass with an onboard pre-amp into an external pre-amp, can I expect explosions? Any feedback would be great, thanks. Kiev. [/quote] No. No explosions Active basses don't have necessarily a higher output than passive basses. Some passive basses are hotter than most active ones, and there's a whole world in between. Higher output basses (whether active or passive) will drive the next bit in the chain (a preamp, an effects pedal... whatever) harder, so you may need to adjust levels differently using different basses, but that's all. You will not damage anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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