Steinberger XL2 Question

[Dingus]

I have been tormenting myself lookinig at some footage of Steinberger XL2 basses this afternoon - I always wanted one back in the 1980's and never quite got one and now probably never will - and I noticed how the pivot plate flipper thing that the strap attaches to only goes up to about the seventeenth - nineteenth fret region of the 24 fret neck . Could someone who is familiar with playing these basses tell me if that makes the neck feel very long (i.e a long reach down towards the nut ) , as tends to be the case on full - scale basses where the strap button / top horn doesn't reach as far as the twelfth fret region ? I have played one of these basses but it was always sitting down in a shop , and it was a very long time ago now . I would be very interested to hear how these basses feel when played standing up with a strap on .

Edited March 25, 2013 by Dingus

[BassTractor]

Yup. On a thin person, the reach is very long.
One might not wish to modify an original XL2, but personally, I'd just mount an alu rail on body or pivot flipper, with two screws, making a top horn.

best,
bert

[sblueplanet]

I owned an early L2 fretless. I like small-bodied basses and the Steinberger was the smallest thing out there. I found the neck access the best of any bass ive owned. Yes, it does feel a longer stretch given that it is 24 fret but with such a narrow neck it never really bothered me.
Also, the strap pivot meant you could alter the height of the neck without actual strap length adjustment. I got out of the habit of playingfetless, otherwise i would prob still have it.
The whole balance issue also disappears when wearing the strap as the pivot is at the centre of your body's gravity.
Damn, the more i remember the more i want one again! Haha.

[Dingus]

Thanks for the replies . I am thinking that the excellent balance would make up for the unusual playing position and get to feel natural after a while if you stuck with that bass . The Steinberger is the one bass that still torments me to this day . I wish I had got one at the time , if only to get it out of my system , if you see what I mean . To this day , I'm sure that the reason I gravitate towards black basses is the subliminal draw of the Steinberger .

[White Cloud]

Absolutely great basses. Still uber cool in my book.....and a great sounding bottom end to boot!

[Dingus]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1364245116' post='2023840']
Absolutely great basses. Still uber cool in my book.....and a great sounding bottom end to boot!
[/quote]

This is doing me no good whatsoever . I want a Steinberger ! I know I could pick one up second hand , but really I want a new one , despite the fact that they don't make them any more . I wish Ned Steinberger would buy back the patent and start making them the way they used to before Gibson aquired them .

[sblueplanet]

Im a lefty and used to flip bass round on the pivot. Last year I came across a guy selling a lefty XL2 in europe but I could have bought a pre-CBS Fender for the asking price.
Im using a lefty Warwick thumb and in many ways is similar with small body and narrow neck but the long scale. I just wish Warwick would make medium scale instruments too.
Lucky Bill Wyman, ex Rolling Stones bassist, had a one-off short-scale L2 made for him. Would love to get my paws on that.

[PJT]

I have and XL2, but if I play it I have to use it exclusively. It's the one in the North East Bass Bash photos.This is because if I dont look at the fretboard, I instinctively put my hand around 3 or 4 frets out from where I play on my other guitars. If I change guitars mid-set I really have to concentrate. Still love it though.

[MattM]

I'm an ex XL2 owner, and found when switching back to a conventional bass like a Ray, the top fret reach is definitely shorter. Not better or worse, just different and takes a bit of getting used to. It is more pronounced when standing as you can adjust position with flp leg rest fairly easily when seated. Changing mid-set between an XL2 and another bass would be tricky as above poster has said.

Oh and they are awesome basses, I only sold mine owing to major job insecurity situation, and regret it pretty much every day. The sustain is unbelievable, think the Nigel Tuffnel Les Paul scene in Spinal Tap....

[Stacker]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1364247126' post='2023894']
This is doing me no good whatsoever . I want a Steinberger ! I know I could pick one up second hand , but really I want a new one , despite the fact that they don't make them any more . I wish Ned Steinberger would buy back the patent and start making them the way they used to before Gibson aquired them .
[/quote]
There's a fella on here selling an L2 for a very reasonable £1500!

Plus, they'll never be made again, not unless someone does some serious 3d priniting: the plugs and molds were lost/destroyed during the Gibson years.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Stacker

[Dingus]

[quote name='Stacker' timestamp='1364294260' post='2024347']
There's a fella on here selling an L2 for a very reasonable £1500!

Plus, they'll never be made again, not unless someone does some serious 3d priniting: the plugs and molds were lost/destroyed during the Gibson years.
[/quote]

I've seen the one you are talking about , and it's a very nice example . To be honest with you , I've looked at a couple in the States that were in unplayed brand new condition and been very tempted , but for one reason or another I have held off , mainly because spare parts are getting to be very difficult and expensive to find but also for a couple of other reasons I won't bore you with . I have actually spoken to Ned Steinberger himself a while back about the possibility of him regaining the patent and starting making them again and he said that there is absolutely no chance , regardless of demand . The biggest stubling block is that the basses were always so costly and time consuming to produce to a consistant quality that you couldn't make enough of them or to a reasonable market price to make it worthwhile in the long term . Those problems were a big part of why he sold out to Gibson , and why no one will make this design again . As I mentioned a while ago in another thread , what I suspect [i]really[/i] want is for it to be 1985 all over again ( I begged my dad to buy me one at the time but he refused on the grounds that he couldn't afford it , and they didn't have Childline back in those days to report him to ) and to have a Steinberger as my younger self . I will no doubt , continue to be tormented by these beautiful basses .

[Stacker]

Why must it be an as-new one? The Steiny group on Yahoo is a good source for parts but no doubt you're aware of that? But if I were you, I'd bite the hand off the BCer selling his L2.

[MattM]

The L2 in question has been sold. I unfortunately snoozed and lost out... Not too many examples in that condition nowadays. Spare parts for Steinys are actually in better shape than ever thanks to Headless USA, Andy Y and the Steinberger Yahoo community, I wouldn't worry about that end too much tbh.

[Sid Fang]

I've had an XL-2 for years, and it's been my main bass off and on, including recently (see my profile photo). The pivot plate is one of the utterly brilliant things about the bass. It's effortless to swing the neck up or down as one plays if that makes the reach more comfortable, of just for dramatic effect, so I've never, ever, noticed that the nut seemed far away.

I bought mine in the late 1980s, when they were no longer trendy but were stll easy to find. My objective was to have something small and rugged with which I could travel, but it's got such a fast, even neck and such a big, punchy, detailed sound that it became my "go to" bass. The only thing it lacks, for me, is a B string. I hoped for years to come across one of the very rare XL-25W's, but finally gave up and ordered a Stealth 5 string from Status Graphite (should be ready in a couple of weeks!). I opted not to go with the more Steinberger-like Status Streamline precisely because it *doesn't* have the pivot plate, and I had doubt that I'd find the compact format workable without one.

As long as you don't let the electronics corrode, 'bergers are nigh-on indestructible and I've never had any problem with mine. The one component that apparently does fail after enough use are the "claws" that hold the tuner end of the strings. These were made from a relatively cheap steel alloy and many of them fail after 20-30 years of use. Fortunately, there are a couple of people in the USA who manufacture stainless steel replacement parts and sell them on Ebay for something like 20 quid the piece.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Sid Fang

[Dingus]

According to a dealer in the States I was having a chat with who sees a fair few , on an increasingly large number of them the necks are becoming a bit bent , despite the fact that they are made out of graphite . I suppose that you would just have to look at any particular one you were going to buy and evaluate it . I know spares are still available , including original replacement parts , albit at a higher price , but how long that will continue is anyones guess . Who knows , if I played the right one on the right day I may well buy it despit the fact that I am very well served for basses nowadays , but I still wish they were a currently in production the same as they originally were before Gibson took over .

[Sid Fang]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1364315396' post='2024751']
According to a dealer in the States I was having a chat with who sees a fair few , on an increasingly large number of them the necks are becoming a bit bent , despite the fact that they are made out of graphite .
[/quote]
Really? I've never, ever heard of that having happened. It could, of course. There was a lot of the Black Arts in the original Ned Steinberger design - one of the reasons Gibson was never able to cost-reduce and scale-up production - and some graphite/epoxy mixes may have been less rigid than others, but it's not a problem that comes up very frequenty with 'bergers in the forums I frequent. It would be bad if it did happen - unlike Status and most other modern manufacturers of graphite necks and guitars, the XL-2 has no truss adjustment. One would probably have to apply pressure in the opposite direction for 20-odd years...

[Dingus]

[quote name='Sid Fang' timestamp='1364318048' post='2024817']
Really? I've never, ever heard of that having happened. It could, of course. There was a lot of the Black Arts in the original Ned Steinberger design - one of the reasons Gibson was never able to cost-reduce and scale-up production - and some graphite/epoxy mixes may have been less rigid than others, but it's not a problem that comes up very frequenty with 'bergers in the forums I frequent. It would be bad if it did happen - unlike Status and most other modern manufacturers of graphite necks and guitars, the XL-2 has no truss adjustment. One would probably have to apply pressure in the opposite direction for 20-odd years...
[/quote]

I have never encountered it personally so I would reserve judgement , but I have heard stories ( make of them what you will ) about various makes of basses - not just Steinberger - with graphite necks from the 1980s developing discrepancies in the neck due to very slight movement of the graphite . It would seem that carbon graphite is not neccesarilly 100 % stable over the longer term , as had always been assumed at the time . Bear in mind that a bass neck only has to change shape by a fraction of a millimeter in order to start causing problems .

[Stacker]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1364318808' post='2024835']
I have never encountered it personally so I would reserve judgement , but I have heard stories ( make of them what you will ) about various makes of basses - not just Steinberger - with graphite necks from the 1980s developing discrepancies in the neck due to very slight movement of the graphite . It would seem that carbon graphite is not neccesarilly 100 % stable over the longer term , as had always been assumed at the time . Bear in mind that a bass neck only has to change shape by a fraction of a millimeter in order to start causing problems .
[/quote]
I've heard of two L series that had slight up-bows, enough to cause fret choking, and one of these was on a mate's L2. A lot of fret work was needed and after that it played fine. Sid Fang's statement on epoxy/graphite blends not having enough ridigity is most plausible but these are RARE events in my book.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Stacker

[GeeCee]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1364318808' post='2024835']
I have never encountered it personally so I would reserve judgement , but I have heard stories ( make of them what you will ) about various makes of basses - not just Steinberger - with graphite necks from the 1980s developing discrepancies in the neck due to very slight movement of the graphite . It would seem that carbon graphite is not neccesarilly 100 % stable over the longer term , as had always been assumed at the time . Bear in mind that a bass neck only has to change shape by a fraction of a millimeter in order to start causing problems .
[/quote]

I had a Vigier Passion bass with a graphite neck that developed a bow and have played an early Status Series II fretless with the same problem. Neither could be corrected without a truss rod. I believe Musicman Cutlass basses can also be problematic and have heard similar stories about graphite-necked Alembic basses with problems, though I have never played either.

[Dingus]

[quote name='GeeCee' timestamp='1364504348' post='2027523']
I had a Vigier Passion bass with a graphite neck that developed a bow and have played an early Status Series II fretless with the same problem. Neither could be corrected without a truss rod. I believe Musicman Cutlass basses can also be problematic and have heard similar stories about graphite-necked Alembic basses with problems, though I have never played either.
[/quote]

Those are [u][i]exactly[/i][/u] the same makes and models that I have heard about problems developing on .

[foal30]

sitting down the reach seems very long.
without a leg-rest insert I doubt the instrument is playable.

with a strap + standing it's nowhere near as noticeable. My issues were actually with the "lack" of a placement point for my right thumb.
IMO an instrument well worth getting to grips with it's quirks. They really are fantastic.

[White Cloud]

I have been reflecting on this thread for a couple of days; I personally feel on balance that the XL2 is, for me, the greatest bass design of all time.

[philw]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1364556090' post='2028073']
I have been reflecting on this thread for a couple of days; I personally feel on balance that the XL2 is, for me, the greatest bass design of all time.
[/quote]

I'll concur with that - although I think the plug-in leg rest of the L2 was functionally better than the XL2's folding item. And if there's one bass I've owned and sold but which I'd have back if I could, it'd be my old L2.

P

[markorbit]

I've owned 4 Bergers and currently have an L2 which I like to take out on gigs, just to freak everybody out. When standing, the reach can be short or long depending on whereabouts on your body you 'hang' the bass - middle or to the right hip. I've never found it an issue at all. The biggest 'problem' is that there is no body to anchor to (well, there [i]is[/i] a technique if you must have this) and the bass too easily moves around on the pivot plate. Other than that it's probably the coolest bass ever invented.

[MattM]

Maybe its just my technique, but I never found anchoring my thumb a problem. Normally play fingerstyle, and just used to rest on top of pickup, neck or bridge depending on tone required. Have have Ps and 'Rays in my time also, same deal, no biggy.