So has anyone cloned a Wal?

[bassatnight]

Pretty sure Wal would sell you the PUPS and electronics but probably damn expensive!

I have owned 2 and they are wonderful but not in my opinion worth £3k second hand nor £4/5k new.

[chris_b]

[quote name='bassatnight' timestamp='1364388625' post='2025739']
....Pretty sure Wal would sell you the PUPS and electronics but probably damn expensive!....
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't.

[EBS_freak]

Here, have a million quid for a pair of pickups and a preamp.

I think they would. I just think the "for how much?" is the factor.

Edited March 27, 2013 by EBS_freak

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Ant_On_Bass' timestamp='1364380401' post='2025562']
Well whoever figures out how to clone the electronics of a Wal I would say is going to have a few customers haha
[/quote]

But only a few. It might have been worth doing when it looked like there were going to be no more new Wals, but since Paul Herman took over production, the interest has died down since it's now possible to get a new Wal - You just have to pay and wait.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1364394293' post='2025835']
Here, have a million quid for a pair of pickups and a preamp.

I think they would. I just think the "for how much?" is the factor.
[/quote]

You can get a set of pickups and pre-amp provided that you are also prepared to pay for the Wal bass they are attached to. Prices start at £3650.

Which is how it should be. They are the USP of a Wal so why dilute the brand value by selling them separately.

Edited March 27, 2013 by BigRedX

[tubbybloke68]

[quote name='goblin' timestamp='1364336782' post='2025199']
I've got a passive Wal, sounds pretty much identical to active ones, and it still has a very hot signal too. I reckon it's in the pickups!
[/quote] yeah +1 to this as the yanks say . I can vouch to this :-)

[Dingus]

I think whether Wal would sell you some pickups / electronics would depend on who you are and why you wanted them . I seem to remember that Wal collaborated with SEI Basses and provided some pickups and electronics for one of their basses ( I could have got this story a bit mixed up , so if anybody knows better then let us know the full story ) , presumably because Martin Peterson was someone they respected as a bulider with integrity and similar ability to themselves . If you just rang up unannounced and wanted to buy some pickups and gubbins to make your own Wal I suspect you would get a very different response .

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='Ant_On_Bass' timestamp='1364333181' post='2025104']
I'm Interested to know if anyone has managed to clone a Wal or at least clone the pickups?
[/quote]

Not sure this counts ;-)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wal-Custom-Chris-Squire-Triple-Neck-Bass-Replica-by-Hiroshi-Kid-Kids-Guitars-/330891518625?pt=Guitar&hash=item4d0aabe2a1

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1364394528' post='2025844']
You can get a set of pickups and pre-amp provided that you are also prepared to pay for the Wal bass they are attached to. Prices start at £3650.

Which is how it should be. They are the USP of a Wal so why dilute the brand value by selling them separately.
[/quote]

Agree.

[AndyTravis]

A good while ago before Paul Herman took the reigns at Wal, there was talk of a UK based high-end guitar distributor buying the rights/brand name and re-launching the Wal name.

When I found out about this, I was straight on the phone asking questions; would there be new models etc.

Their plan of action worked along the lines of the Fret King model, A high end UK made product, and a more accesible incarnation of the brand.

And in all honesty, i'm glad the talks fell through - The mystique around the brand and the 'Electric Wood' story was being totally bypassed with this kind of business model; in short, cheapening the brand.

Imagine if there was a Wal 'SE' or similar, would it be harmful to the mystery of it all, would it ruin the second hand values, would the order books for the UK product still be full?

I'm not sure, does Squier/Fender, Epiphone/Gibson, LTD/ESP and PRS/PRS 'SE' do any of that?

Having Paul Herman take over probably was the preferable outcome in terms of the company image/kudos, as he'd had involvement prior to the quiet times.


I'm still hankering for one, and i'm sure eventually i'll own one, but it'll be a while off yet.

[Dingus]

[quote name='AndyTravis' timestamp='1364416239' post='2026267']
A good while ago before Paul Herman took the reigns at Wal, there was talk of a UK based high-end guitar distributor buying the rights/brand name and re-launching the Wal name.

When I found out about this, I was straight on the phone asking questions; would there be new models etc.

Their plan of action worked along the lines of the Fret King model, A high end UK made product, and a more accesible incarnation of the brand.

And in all honesty, i'm glad the talks fell through - The mystique around the brand and the 'Electric Wood' story was being totally bypassed with this kind of business model; in short, cheapening the brand.

Imagine if there was a Wal 'SE' or similar, would it be harmful to the mystery of it all, would it ruin the second hand values, would the order books for the UK product still be full?

I'm not sure, does Squier/Fender, Epiphone/Gibson, LTD/ESP and PRS/PRS 'SE' do any of that?

Having Paul Herman take over probably was the preferable outcome in terms of the company image/kudos, as he'd had involvement prior to the quiet times.


I'm still hankering for one, and i'm sure eventually i'll own one, but it'll be a while off yet.
[/quote]

I think Pete Stevens had a few offers on the table towards the end of the time he was making basses and then afterwards , but anyone who knew Pete and the crew at Electric Wood back in their heyday will tell you , they really weren't in it for the money . They were ( quite rightly ) fiercely proud of their basses and I have never known a company that cared so genuinely about their customers . I think Pete handed the baton to Paul because he was one of them and understood what Wal basses were all about , and thank gooodness he did . The World doesn't really need cheap Wal basses , it needs good ones .

Edited March 27, 2013 by Dingus

[3below]

Many interesting opinions above. I personally can not justify £3K upwards for a bass. 80% or 90% of the sound would do most of the time. In due course DSP will capture the Wal sound (and many others) to the degree that most of us will not be able to tell. The pedal should cost about £40, reproduces all the major basses (inc Mr Hall's famous bass), fretless, fretted and the big bonus DB tone. Bring it on ASAP.

[Musky]

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1364416932' post='2026284']
Many interesting opinions above. I personally can not justify £3K upwards for a bass. 80% or 90% of the sound would do most of the time. In due course DSP will capture the Wal sound (and many others) to the degree that most of us will not be able to tell. The pedal should cost about £40, reproduces all the major basses (inc Mr Hall's famous bass), fretless, fretted and the big bonus DB tone. Bring it on ASAP.
[/quote]
Hmmm... Not that easy methinks.

You can simulate the sound of a particular amp, and it'll sound like your bass being played through whatever amp is being modeled. In this case you're trying to model the sound of a particular bass whilst ignoring the sound the bass is actually making. It'd have to involve analysing the sound being produced and reinforcing or substracting frequencies to a degree that would replicate the bass that is being modeled. All without any latency and without flattening individual variations due to technique.

Doubtless it'll happen one day though.

[3below]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1364425791' post='2026481']
Hmmm... Not that easy methinks.

You can simulate the sound of a particular amp, and it'll sound like your bass being played through whatever amp is being modeled. In this case you're trying to model the sound of a particular bass whilst ignoring the sound the bass is actually making. It'd have to involve analysing the sound being produced and reinforcing or substracting frequencies to a degree that would replicate the bass that is being modeled. All without any latency and without flattening individual variations due to technique.

Doubtless it'll happen one day though.
[/quote]

I would analyse the sound and extract the fundamental (or possibly main harmonic) sine wave (or whatever function it is). Next stage would be add the distinctive harmonic content and envelope that each bass creates to the raw function. Latency etc. - yes this might be a problem with current CPU power, however CPU processing rates are only going one way

This must be possible, Line 6 Variax started it.

[AndyTravis]

As a thought, the Enfield basses look a bit like Wal basses, and have an in house designed/unique pickup and preamp...

Same idea, but not a clone. And about as expensive, so not a better 'bang for buck' option.

[6v6]

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1364427665' post='2026521']
I would analyse the sound and extract the fundamental (or possibly main harmonic) sine wave (or whatever function it is). Next stage would be add the distinctive harmonic content and envelope that each bass creates to the raw function. Latency etc. - yes this might be a problem with current CPU power, however CPU processing rates are only going one way

This must be possible, Line 6 Variax started it.
[/quote]

This is true, it is already possible as proven by the Variax, and having tried one I have to say the Variax is a very impressive thing (although the actual instruments on the early models were pretty uninspiring)

The problem IMO is that modelling the sound accurately (of any instrument not just a Wal) only gives you a fraction of the experience of playing the real thing. Different instruments feel different, and the way they feel makes affects your playing style, and that is impossible to model via DSP.

[White Cloud]

My own personal opinion on this is that I feel that cheaper, compromised models that cater for those on a limited budget shatter the desirability of high end instruments....almost like a negative placebo affect.

I can understand the good intenton of companies like Overwater when providing those on a limited budget with the chance to purchase a good quality look/sound-alike basses - but for whatever reason it puts me off aspiring to he real deal.

I was lucky enough to own a Wal custom (bought new on the never, never) back in the 80's. Traded it in for a Jaydee that sucked (thats another story) in one of the biggest mistakes of my life. Despite the fact that there is nothing mysterious about the woodworking/build quality nothing sounds like a Wal.

Is £4000 really such a financial outlay for an outstanding instrument that will last a lifetime?? Really?? Most members of this forum have probably spent much more on bland, second hand, mass produced cars....including me!

[bartelby]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1364914293' post='2032537']

Is £4000 really such a financial outlay for an outstanding instrument that will last a lifetime?? Really?? Most members of this forum have probably spent much more on bland, second hand, mass produced cars....including me!
[/quote]

I know Wals are great but I doubt one could transport me back and forth to work each day...

[Wolverinebass]

It's the sort of thing that people live for. Getting cloned Wal pickups and a circuit. That thread on TB has been going on for about 5 years. It'll never happen. For those moaning about Wal not selling the pickups, why should they? If they did, I bet they'd sell a lot less basses. However, that's another story. Had this come to fruition I did toy with the idea of getting a neck and body from Warmoth and splatting the clones in it. In the end I realised that was pointless regardless if SGD had managed to do it anyway as it wouldn't be a Wal.

If you really, really want the pickups there's a bloke on TB called MPU (based in Finland) who made some 8 coil pickups for some bloke to put in his spector. I believe they were in EMG casings. Dunno how much they'd be. Then you'd have the fun of trying to track down a comparable circuit. Good luck with that.

I don't consider £4000 too much to spend on a great instrument (providing you have the money for it). But thereabouts is the cutoff for me. I'd never get a Fodera as even though they're great, it's just too much. Besides what with the buzzard I'm already an instrument insurer's wet dream anyway.

Whilst I don't have the cash now, I shall be saving to get a Wal. Considering that there's something ludicrous like a 2 year wait, I could probably have ordered it tomorrow and managed to save up in the intervening time. However, I digress.

If you want the sound, get the real thing.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1364915014' post='2032552']
I know Wals are great but I doubt one could transport me back and forth to work each day...
[/quote]
Yes that is true however you could order a Wal, buy a reasonable bicycle for under a grand....and get fit at the same time!

[dutchwife]

Okay, well, I'm a bit late to the party,but anyway here's my entry; Sei Flamboyant # 15, ebony/maple NT, tricked out w/ Wal Pups & electronics. All of which makes me very happy &, I'm told gives my friends the right to call me a "Jammy Bastid"......

[Lfalex v1.1]

If one were so inclined, why not simply "start again" with a pick-up design?
Sure, look at other good/great designs. Examine the pros and cons of each, and then try to do better still. Really experiment. Go back to first principles. Develop a pick-up/ group of pick-ups that work using a separate coil per string in individual housings. The Wal units are humbuckers. Try single coils or taps, whatever works.
Just because they're good, doesn't mean they can't be matched or bettered..

[4000]

[quote name='Highfox' timestamp='1364378789' post='2025536']
Lets remind ourselves how they sound.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_crXC-rFG9E[/media]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3CTN5iYeb4[/media]

Made me rush out and buy my first Wal.. never managed to play like Leigh (got some of the sound).. some serious bass playing on their first album.
[/quote]

Leigh is one of my main influences. Tremendous player. Met him last year, finally, and he was a really nice bloke.

[4000]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1364393690' post='2025820']
I'm pretty sure they wouldn't.
[/quote]

I remember in the '80s I rang to ask this, and they said yep, no problem. IIRC it was something like £225; certainly nothing outrageous even if it was more. I'm sure things are different now though!

Edited June 19, 2013 by 4000

[4000]

[quote name='dutchwife' timestamp='1371582687' post='2115906']
Okay, well, I'm a bit late to the party,but anyway here's my entry; Sei Flamboyant # 15, ebony/maple NT, tricked out w/ Wal Pups & electronics. All of which makes me very happy &, I'm told gives my friends the right to call me a "Jammy Bastid"......
[/quote]

Toyed with buying that once when it was in the Gallery. But then I toy with buying every Sei in there....FWIW I had a Wal Custom and wouldn't put it in my top 15 basses that I've owned. Whatever I did with it it was just too nasal. Wish I hadn't sold it for £550 though!