So has anyone cloned a Wal?

[rubis]

[quote]
[b] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/2023-wolverinebass/"]Wolverinebass[/url][/b]


Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:20 PM
It's the sort of thing that people live for. Getting cloned Wal pickups and a circuit. That thread on TB has been going on for about 5 years. It'll never happen. For those moaning about Wal not selling the pickups, why should they? If they did, I bet they'd sell a lot less basses. However, that's another story. Had this come to fruition I did toy with the idea of getting a neck and body from Warmoth and splatting the clones in it. In the end I realised that was pointless regardless if SGD had managed to do it anyway as it wouldn't be a Wal.

If you really, really want the pickups there's a bloke on TB called MPU (based in Finland) who made some 8 coil pickups for some bloke to put in his spector. I believe they were in EMG casings. Dunno how much they'd be. Then you'd have the fun of trying to track down a comparable circuit. Good luck with that.

I don't consider £4000 too much to spend on a great instrument (providi...[/quote] When I was doing my Blingray build I did a build diary in TB and MPU PM'd me offering one of his quad coil pickups in a MM style housing for £50 [attachment=137243:MPU.jpg]Its not cosmetically similar to a Wal pickup, and I've not heard a soundbite of one but combined with something like an ACG filter based pre, it's about as close as you could get with an emulation, and I did consider taking up his offer. Who knows.......one day!

Edited June 19, 2013 by rubis

[Stoney]

I know this is a very old thread, but I actualy own the Manson bass with wal pickups. I'll get some photos up later. If anyone has any info on this bass I would be very greatful as Manson didn't keep any records for it.

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Stoney' timestamp='1421430269' post='2661191']
I know this is a very old thread, but I actualy own the Manson bass with wal pickups. I'll get some photos up later. If anyone has any info on this bass I would be very greatful as Manson didn't keep any records for it.
[/quote]

Please do, I'd be very interested to see those.

[FlatEric]

I have read all through this old thread, brought to the top again by Stoney.

Very interesting.

I have never played a Wal and don't recall having even picked one up!
Shame on me.

I realise it's a little of topic of the original post but could some Wal fans/owners
point me in the direction of threads that would explain the different models.
All of a sudden, I have a healthy interest in the Marque.
May even start a Wal fund!

Cheers.

[kodiakblair]

Wish I could help with the model Flat Eric but in either 88 or 89 I bough a Wal.

Cost me £500 used in Monkey Business and they gave me a case for it,was the first time I'd played through Trace
Elliot gear too

It was sold shortly after for flat deposit money when I went back to Scotland. All I remember was it had an XLR fitted
2 passive pickups that had switches on them and a leather scratch plate.

It really was overkill for punk rock and my ability

Maybe someone can shed some light on what model it was ? I asked the Wal owners site and their answer left me kinda " "

[CamdenRob]

There is an excellent blog on wal history here

http://walbasshistory.blogspot.co.uk/p/blog-page_17.html

[chris_b]

The leather pick guard models were the JG's and [u]the[/u] best sounding Wal I've ever heard. I believe they only made 46 of those.

I played one in the Bass Cellar, Denmark Street, in the 90's. They were selling it for Martin Kemp and wanted £1000. At the time I thought that was too expensive. Now I wish I'd just got a bank loan.

[kodiakblair]

That's what the Wal club told me Chris.

And they could account for 37 of them.

After 25 years I'm over the stage

[Shaggy]

Back to the OP - I looked into this last year having acquired Beedsters old "Wal / Jazz" mongrel (an '83 Mk1 Custom that rather bizarrely had been modified with SD jazz bass pickups and a generic circuit) with the aim to restore it to original spec.

There's a German company that makes near-exact clones of Wal pickups - http://bass-elektronik.de/products/hot-wire-w-bucker-pickups - and as as mentioned in this thread the filter-based East ACG-1 pre-amp should give a pretty close approximation to the bespoke Wal circuit.

Fortunately Paul and Phil at Electric Wood were willing to take on sorting the bass and re-fit with correct Wal parts - not cheap of course, but at least it'll be a "proper" Wal once more!

For a Wal-type custom build though, I'd have thought the parts above would be excellent

[skelf]

I now have my own Multi Coil pickup and the new DFM dual filter pre-amp. Not really interested in a Wal clone to be honest but you can certainly get firmly into Wal territory sound wise. Should point out the DFM and the MC pickups are not for sale outwit my own instruments.

[url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/acg_admin/wordpress/basses/electronics/"]http://www.acguitars...es/electronics/[/url]

[url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/acg_admin/wordpress/basses/pickups/"]http://www.acguitars...basses/pickups/[/url]


I am also on the MKII version of the EQ01 which has just been released. Difference is the reduction of the lowpass filter range to bring it into line with DFM. This brings the filter range more in line with the Wal. We went over board on the EQ03 making a pre-amp which in hind sight had to much of every thing so it was possible if used in the more extreme settings to sound pretty nasty. The reduction in the filter range took top end out of the system because it simply had way to much.

Edited January 17, 2015 by skelf

[Stoney]

Here we go, my custom Manson with wal pickups. There are no records for this bass, but Hugh Manson can remember building it in the mid 80's. If anyone has any info what so ever I'll be very greatful!

[Kev]

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1421507437' post='2662077']
I now have my own Multi Coil pickup and the new DFM dual filter pre-amp. Not really interested in a Wal clone to be honest but you can certainly get firmly into Wal territory sound wise. Should point out the DFM and the MC pickups are not for sale outwit my own instruments.

[url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/acg_admin/wordpress/basses/electronics/"]http://www.acguitars...es/electronics/[/url]

[url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/acg_admin/wordpress/basses/pickups/"]http://www.acguitars...basses/pickups/[/url]


I am also on the MKII version of the EQ01 which has just been released. Difference is the reduction of the lowpass filter range to bring it into line with DFM. This brings the filter range more in line with the Wal. We went over board on the EQ03 making a pre-amp which in hind sight had to much of every thing so it was possible if used in the more extreme settings to sound pretty nasty. The reduction in the filter range took top end out of the system because it simply had way to much.
[/quote]

Are there any videos/sounds samples of the MC pickups with the DFM floating around? Really keen to hear how it sounds!

The ACG I briefly had with the standard pickups and EQ03 was a great bass but was some way off the tone of my Wal; really the only thing in common was the style of the preamp, but of course it was never your aim for it to sound like a Wal and sound ace as its own bass. I'm just curious to see how much closer the MC pickups get to that sound.

[skelf]

I would have to disagree with it being nothing like a Wal. I played a Wal for many years and have recordings of that Wal the sound of which I have got very close to with the EQ03 and single coil pickups. This however it was a fretless so I am less familiar with what I would regard as a good fretted Wal sound. While possible to get what I would regard as a good Wal sound it does take some work since the EQ03 was never really intended to be a Wal copy so it does take some time. You turned that bass round fairly quickly and the EQ03 has a much broader range than the Wal pre-amp and did take work to refine down to what I was looking for.
An example of a bass with FB Humbuckers and an EQ01 pre-amp which to me gets very close to what I define as my favourite Wal tone that of Mick Karn.
[url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/acg_admin/wordpress/joe-leitner-mick-karm-medley/"]http://www.acguitars...ck-karm-medley/[/url]


The DFM with the much reduced treble does make dailing in a Wal type tone much easier. I have the prototype MC pickups in a fretted bass but I have much less of an opinion as to what constitutes a fretted Wal tone. What the MC pickups do bring is greater clarity across the whole board. Increased articulation again all over the entire range and simply makes the bass better. If it was not for the fact that they cost so much I would use nothing else.

I am working on a demo with Colin Cunningham on the Uber ART Recurve 4. Generally I leave him to pick the sounds he likes as per the other vids but with this bass I may pickup out a few tones that I like.

Also hope to do a guide to the DFM just working through the range of tones possible. And while I think it will get you as close to a Wal as you can without a Wal (this is my idea of how a Wal sounds and I can pretty much nail it,your idea will be different so I can't comment on that) it does so much more that a Wal can't touch. The idea is as you said to make a bass that sounds great in it's own right if it happens to sound like a Wal as well I can live with that.

Edited January 17, 2015 by skelf

[skelf]

I actually had a bass built by Chris Eccleshall before I had an actual Wal. It was to look like a Wal but had fairly standard pickups and electronics in it. I mentioned to Chris that ideally I wanted a Wal. So he got in touch with Pete who he knew and I got the pickups/pre-amp and bridge in the bass made by Chris. I sold it along with an Overwater Progress Elite 6 to help fund the guitar building. By that time I also had a Wal but I also sold it along with all my guitars, synths and recording gear to buy wood and tools.

Edited January 17, 2015 by skelf

[Kev]

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1421525799' post='2662358']
I would have to disagree with it being nothing like a Wal. I played a Wal for many years and have recordings of that Wal the sound of which I have got very close to with the EQ03 and single coil pickups. This however it was a fretless so I am less familiar with what I would regard as a good fretted Wal sound. While possible to get what I would regard as a good Wal sound it does take some work since the EQ03 was never really intended to be a Wal copy so it does take some time. You turned that bass round fairly quickly and the EQ03 has a much broader range than the Wal pre-amp and did take work to refine down to what I was looking for.
An example of a bass with FB Humbuckers and an EQ01 pre-amp which to me gets very close to what I define as my favourite Wal tone that of Mick Karn.
[url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/acg_admin/wordpress/joe-leitner-mick-karm-medley/"]http://www.acguitars...ck-karm-medley/[/url]


The DFM with the much reduced treble does make dailing in a Wal type tone much easier. I have the prototype MC pickups in a fretted bass but I have much less of an opinion as to what constitutes a fretted Wal tone. What the MC pickups do bring is greater clarity across the whole board. Increased articulation again all over the entire range and simply makes the bass better. If it was not for the fact that they cost so much I would use nothing else.

I am working on a demo with Colin Cunningham on the Uber ART Recurve 4. Generally I leave him to pick the sounds he likes as per the other vids but with this bass I may pickup out a few tones that I like.

Also hope to do a guide to the DFM just working through the range of tones possible. And while I think it will get you as close to a Wal as you can without a Wal (this is my idea of how a Wal sounds and I can pretty much nail it,your idea will be different so I can't comment on that) it does so much more that a Wal can't touch. The idea is as you said to make a bass that sounds great in it's own right if it happens to sound like a Wal as well I can live with that.
[/quote]

I did turn the bass round quite quickly, and I would add it was nothing to do with my like or dislike of the instrument, however I spent quite a lot of time fiddling with the filters (with help from a few members on here, Talkbass and your good self) and setting the low pass filters as close as my ears allowed to the frequency of my Wal and ab'd extensively, there just seemed to be a difference in voicing between the instruments, with the ACG sounding perhaps more clean and precise and the Wal having a more aggressive, growly vibe. Then again, a bass with that many knobs I may well have had something set wrong! But in my head, I figured that the difference in sound had something to do with the pickups and that is why I am interested to here the MCs. Look forward to that demo!

[skelf]

I am pleased you liked that bass having players rate them is the name of the game that and making a living.


The difference in sound would be accounted for in many things including pickups.. The construction of that bass and the materials used are completely different from any Wal and the difference you mentioned regarding cleaner and more precise will be correct. I try to build modern instruments without an over riding character of their own. But I also want to provide an instrument that is a canvas for the player to try and get the sound in their head out into the world. A Wal is a distinctive sounding instrument much like a Stingray and while character instruments are great they never really get out from under that signature sound. I read an article I think it was either John Giblin or Percy Jones many years ago and they said that they stopped using Wal because they where being associated with the Wal sound. There are constant questions regarding how to get my basses to sound like the classics and while I am told they can get in the ballpark for most of the well known bass tones that was never the idea. If they can it is a by product of wanting players to be able to produce their tone or a new tone that is what I am interested in. Filter pre-amps in my opinion make that more likely to happen. And while the MC pickups may help I have no idea the spec on the actual Wal pickups. I have been working with Aaron and John East on my own agenda. It would be more than fair to say my agenda has been influenced by Wal but coping it verbatim was never the plan. Frankly had that been the plan I would have achieved it years ago and at a lot less cost.

At the end of the day if you want a Wal I would suggest you get a Wal,I did. If you want a bass that can sound like a Wal but has features both in design and materials that are not available in a Wal plus a bass that does sounds not capable on a Wal feel free to get in touch. I should also point out I don't cost as much as Wal.

[Kev]

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1421528202' post='2662400']
A Wal is a distinctive sounding instrument much like a Stingray and while character instruments are great they never really get out from under that signature sound. I read an article I think it was either John Giblin or Percy Jones many years ago and they said that they stopped using Wal because they where being associated with the Wal sound.
[/quote]

Great comparison, the Stingray is another instrument that just doesn't quite sound the same if not from the EB factory, although that one puzzles me more as the electronics and construction are both comparatively basic!

Alan, it is still my intention to commission a build with you and when finances allow I will be giving you a call. The Recurve was an exceptional instrument and the build quality was perfect. If I lived a few hundred miles closer I am fairly sure I would have already paid you a visit and made it happen

[skelf]

I will be down at the London Show and I will have the blue Recurve with me. I am not building anymore Uber basses for stock because they are very individual instruments and customers want to pick the spec themselves not have it picked by me. The Moffat Bass Bash is also an option more ACG basses there than at any other place or time. I realise it is a long way for you to go so London is probably easier.

Edited January 17, 2015 by skelf

[kyboo]

[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1421524121' post='2662324'] Are there any videos/sounds samples of the MC pickups with the DFM floating around? [/quote]

I have a bass with MC pickups and DFM. The preamp is very versatile, it does not have any 'signature' sound (like let's say my favorite Aguilar OBP-3). It can sound like anything what is out there. With all the preamp features, it is hard to learn and hard to master. At the end it makes you understand characteristics of classic sounds (P vs J bass, etc). But it takes quite a bit of time and patience to learn if being a guy who likes having just one knob

In regards to MC pickups, they are very even sounding and responsive. In combination with stiff necks Alan makes, you get extremely fast attack and loooong sustain. It was a revelation point for me when put flats on Alan's bass. While they still sound like flats, they are not lazy due to mentioned fast attack.

I am very happy with the bass.

[chris_b]

I owned a Wal mk3 custom 5 string for over 10 years but only played it for about 20% of that time. It was the nicest playing bass I've owned. A perfectly balanced, beautifully crafted instrument which sounded great in the originals band and in the recording studio. But, didn't sound right in the blues and soul bands that I also played with.

The sound of my Lakland worked better in those bands. The Lakland was a good fit with the originals band as well.

A Wal is a top quality and unique instrument but IMO doesn't have a universal sound.

[CamdenRob]

I spent a long time (and alot of money) trying to get something that sounded close to a Wal I had heard years and years ago... I went through just about everything available, some of which were quality instruments in their own right.

In the end I ordered a Wal as I still wasn't getting the sounded I wanted. Managed to snap one up second hand in the meantime to tide me over till mine arrives.

I've got rid of all my other basses... which pretty much shows how well the Wal sound works for me.

[FlatEric]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1421493485' post='2661893']
There is an excellent blog on wal history here

[url="http://walbasshistory.blogspot.co.uk/p/blog-page_17.html"]http://walbasshistor...og-page_17.html[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks.

Had a quick look - very informative, will read in more depth later.

Cheers.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1421507437' post='2662077']
I now have my own Multi Coil pickup and the new DFM dual filter pre-amp. Not really interested in a Wal clone to be honest but you can certainly get firmly into Wal territory sound wise. Should point out the DFM and the MC pickups are not for sale outwit my own instruments.

[url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/acg_admin/wordpress/basses/electronics/"]http://www.acguitars...es/electronics/[/url]

[url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk/acg_admin/wordpress/basses/pickups/"]http://www.acguitars...basses/pickups/[/url]


I am also on the MKII version of the EQ01 which has just been released. Difference is the reduction of the lowpass filter range to bring it into line with DFM. This brings the filter range more in line with the Wal. We went over board on the EQ03 making a pre-amp which in hind sight had to much of every thing so it was possible if used in the more extreme settings to sound pretty nasty. The reduction in the filter range took top end out of the system because it simply had way to much.
[/quote] I have been following the development of your stuff - I have a eq-01 in a old warwick streamer and when the eq03 came out I couldnt quite work out if it was an improvement or just more stuff. I love the eq01. :-)

[Kev]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1421664044' post='2663637']
I owned a Wal mk3 custom 5 string for over 10 years but only played it for about 20% of that time. It was the nicest playing bass I've owned. A perfectly balanced, beautifully crafted instrument which sounded great in the originals band and in the recording studio. But, didn't sound right in the blues and soul bands that I also played with.

The sound of my Lakland worked better in those bands. The Lakland was a good fit with the originals band as well.

A Wal is a top quality and unique instrument but IMO doesn't have a universal sound.
[/quote]

Completely agree with this. You cannot stop a Wal from sounding like a Wal, and that just doesn't work in some contexts.

[biro]

Well, I am resurrecting this topic to address the Wal cloning thing again. I am not interested in getting that sound right at any cost, but I am laying down some bass lines for a friend and I thought that tone could fit in the context. I started wondering how close I could get to the original with some plugin tweaking in my DAW. (He's in charge of the mixing anyways, but still.)

So, the principle is pretty straightforward: low pass filter (12db / octave) + resonant frequency (+10db give or take). I had done this in the past (with a friend, we actually created a 'walizer' plugin), but I decided to give it a try with the simpler devices included in any daw.

In theory, this should be pretty similar to the way the Wal filter preamp operates -- if only on paper. I have achieved the same results with Logic Pro X's Equalizer and Apple's AU Low Pass (included with all Macs).





Clearly -- and, really, I can't stress this enough -- we all know that Wal basses play the way they do because of a combination of woods, very peculiar pick ups / buffers, the preamp and who knows what else. Yet, to my very uneducated ears, this sounds like a good approximation, especially if your bass is a bolt on with humbuckers.

It should go without saying that while this suits my needs because I simply don't need a Wal and I play live through a laptop anyways, it's not a particularly practical solution for most people to do the tweaking with a mouse instead of a pot.

Edited June 20, 2015 by biro