Will it be loud enough?

[Delberthot]

I currently play through a Gallien Krueger 1001RB II into an Ashdown ABM410 and am looking to change soon.

Most of my gigs are without PA support ranging from pubs to large functions. I have my cab on a cab stand so it is at ear level and I have plenty of volume for everything I do.

I mainly play my Green Precision with D'Addario flats and EMGs and I get a nice bright trebly sound with plenty of low end.

I've been reading threads on here and Talkbs for the past month and don't seem to be getting any closer to choosing a new cab.

I only want to be using one cab and want it to be as light as is reasonable but still be loud enough for what I use it for and enough bottom end. I managed to get it down to a Gallien Krueger Neo 212 II as I'd like to be able to use the biamp facility on my amp but just when I think I'm ready to order I read something else and it makes me doubt that it will do the job of replacing my 4x10".

I've read up on the GK Neo 112 cabs but from what I've read the 212 sounds better. I've gigged with smaller cabs like the Laney NX115, Schroeder 1212L and first generation of the MBE series but they lack the grunt that I get with the 4x10"

I don't really want to go more than £500, it must be a single cab so I can keep using my cab stand, it must be reasonably light(under 25kgs) and it must fit into the boot of a Mini coupe which has a surprisingly large boot.

Hopefully that's comprehensive enough and thanks in advance

[warwickhunt]

Couple of questions;
Why do you want to change from what you have?
What sort of music/size band do you play in?
Have you actually tried bi-amping in the past?

[Delberthot]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1364649790' post='2029210']
Couple of questions;
Why do you want to change from what you have?

[color=#0000ff]The main reason is the weight of the cab. I plan on playing a lot more in the future so the 37kg Ashdown is too heavy[/color]

What sort of music/size band do you play in?

[color=#0000ff]Its mainly deps that I do from pub gigs to weddings/functions so I need to have enough power in the event of not having use of the band's PA (tonight being an example as its only a vocal PA) and to cover most scenarios. For town hall size venues I'd like to think that there'd be a PA that I can go through. [/color]

Have you actually tried bi-amping in the past?

[color=#0000ff]I've had 4 Gallien amps and never had any of their cabs to make use of the function so I wouldn't miss it Its not proper biamping as such, just a separate volume control for the horn[/color]

[/quote]

[hamfist]

If you want a cab that is able to cope with larger function venues but still weighs under 25 kg and still comes in at under £500, then you're probably looking at a used light neo 4x10. Maybe a Schroeder 4x10, which are about 25kg.
There are 2x12's that would cope, volume-wise, and weigh under 25kg, but I doubt you will pick them up for £500, even used.

I have owned a GK neo212 II, and they are fine cabs, but on their own, I wouldn't want to try and fill a large hall, with a loud band, with one. Maybe a GK neo 212 for most gigs, and then add another cab for the larger ones ?

It'll be interesting to see what others suggest. It's the high volume, plus low weight, all for under £500 that's going to be the challenge.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1364651119' post='2029227']
If you want a cab that is able to cope with larger function venues but still weighs under 25 kg and still comes in at under £500, then you're probably looking at a used light neo 4x10. Maybe a Schroeder 4x10, which are about 25kg.
[/quote]

That would be my suggestion too. My 8 ohm Markbass 104HF has never been lacking in the volume department!

If you love the sound of your Ashdown though you could look at getting a pair of 2x10s?

[chris_b]

Barefaced Super 12T, and you won't need to worry about bi-amping.

You will sound better. Better tone, clearer, louder, punchier etc etc. The only downside is you will have to save some more!

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1364651616' post='2029235']
Barefaced Super 12T, and you won't need to worry about bi-amping.

You will sound better. Better tone, clearer, louder, punchier etc etc. The only downside is you will have to save some more!
[/quote]

/thread

[Delberthot]

I have been looking at these but didn't think I'd have to spend nearly £800 to get the performance of a cab that I was selling for £110 just to get something lighter

[Delberthot]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1364651616' post='2029235']
Barefaced Super 12T, and you won't need to worry about bi-amping.

[color=#ff0000]You will sound better. Better tone, clearer,[/color] louder, punchier etc etc. The only downside is you will have to save some more!
[/quote]

But these things are subjective. I like the sound from my cab just not the weight

[chris_b]

[quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1364653274' post='2029256']
....But these things are subjective. I like the sound from my cab just not the weight....
[/quote]

I understand, but you're not going to maintain the sound you like if you buy a different/lighter cab.

Good, lightweight 410's tend to be expensive. You could get the GK Neo 212. It will sound great with your amp, but not the same as your 410.

The Genz 212 gets very good reviews.

My suggestion was to significantly upgrade, and you're right, it is a bigger step than you were intending.

[JTUK]

The 410 cab solution is very tough to beat, IMO..and I doubt a 212 will be able to do it
but I think you could go 212 and not lose too much. I think you'll be able to broadly do the same gigs
as any 212 should be good for 600w..and you'll need a special amp to be able to push that at 4ohms anyway.
Or...you could go 2x210 which keeps the 410 config but with 2 cabs.

You aren't going to do it with a single speaker ..that is not to say these options should be discounted, completely, but they will not match a good 410, IMO.

People talk about running 500watts but how close do you actually get to max'ing the amp..are you a quiet player?
If so, you'll be asking more of your amp.

Seperates are an expensive option, but you get the better carry....

[Delberthot]

Thanks everyone so far

I'm thinking that the 2x 2x10" option may be the best one for me but then I'm back to which one?. The now discontinued Ashdown one was still 29kg

I had been looking at the TC Electronic BC210. Definitely couldn't use one of those to get what I wanted but two might work.

I think more research is required. Its so frustrating that there's no standard way of measuring the output of cabs that all manufacturers would have to adhere to

[andy67]

Try one of these:

http://www.samsontech.com/hartke/products/cabinets/ak-cabinets/ak410/

29kg extremely powerful and easy to move about. A lot less than your budget too.

[Lozz196]

For powerful single-cab options, the three I`ve had that really impressed, whilst being lightweight were:

Schroeder 21012
Schroeder 410 BMF
Markbass Standard 410HR

All of the three were plenty enough for my needs - too much in fact.

[hamfist]

[quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1364660228' post='2029353']
I had been looking at the TC Electronic BC210. Definitely couldn't use one of those to get what I wanted but two might work.
[/quote]

Having owned a pair of BC212's (or was it BC210's I'm not exactly sure) I would not recommend them. They are not great cabs, all IMO, IME etc etc. They can struggle with high volume, and the tone from the ones I had was rather indistinct. No clarity at all.
After all has been said so far, I still think a used Schroeder 4x10 (the 410L or 410BMF) is probably your best bet. Even so, the tone of Schroeders is not to everyone's tastes. They have a very strong mid presence.

Edited March 30, 2013 by hamfist

[Lozz196]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1364665450' post='2029462']
After all has been said so far, I still think a used Schroeder 4x10 (the 410L or 410BMF) is probably your best bet. Even so, the tone of Schroeders is not to everyone's tastes. They have a very strong mid presence.
[/quote]

Yes, I found that. But, this really helps them in the mix, and is probably why they perform so well. On their own, I found them scratchy/middy/nasally, but once the band gets going, well they just sit so well. The 410BMF I found to be more even across the frequencies, plus a much tighter sound than the 21012 I had. Both were awesome cabs though. I actually preferred the 21012, but was going through a "trying to sound more modern" phase, so got the BMF.

[lojo]

I recently got 2 x ported markbass 210s in a trade

Only gigged them once, but it worked really well and I didn't need a lift with the cabs

[wateroftyne]

I had a couple of the bigger Neo Schroeders for a few years. They are very middy, but they also had a noticeable hole in the upper-mids. Eventually the general boxiness of the tone got wearing. All IME, of course.

[Delberthot]

After careful consideration I decided to buy the SWR Goliath that was up for sale here. Its 3kg heavier and slightly deeper than the Paddy Ashdown but it was too good an offer to pass up.

Thanks for all the help and info

Edited March 31, 2013 by Delberthot

[Delberthot]

Well after agreeing the sale and paying for the cab yesterday, the seller has refunded my payment and told me that the cab is no longer for sale.

Still waiting to find out what the reason is but I am very annoyed as about to place an order for a Roqsolid cover for it

back to bloody square one again

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1364815767' post='2031137']
Well after agreeing the sale and paying for the cab yesterday, the seller has refunded my payment and told me that the cab is no longer for sale.

Still waiting to find out what the reason is but I am very annoyed as about to place an order for a Roqsolid cover for it

back to bloody square one again
[/quote]

Was it a BCer? I know someone with a nearly new SWR 4x10 for sale but don't want to compound problems if it is the same guy!

[Delberthot]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1364816451' post='2031148']
Was it a BCer? I know someone with a nearly new SWR 4x10 for sale but don't want to compound problems if it is the same guy!
[/quote]

Possibly - PM'd

[jackers]

I have 2 Ampeg SVT210AV cabs and I think they sound really nice. At 12kg each they are nice and light too

[hamfist]

[quote name='hunt the shunt' timestamp='1364818162' post='2031183']
From 'I want something lighter' to 'I got something heavier' in one page!
[/quote]

Lol. GAS can have that effect !

[badboy1984]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1364665450' post='2029462']
Having owned a pair of BC212's (or was it BC210's I'm not exactly sure) I would not recommend them. They are not great cabs, all IMO, IME etc etc. They can struggle with high volume, and the tone from the ones I had was rather indistinct. No clarity at all.
After all has been said so far, I still think a used Schroeder 4x10 (the 410L or 410BMF) is probably your best bet. Even so, the tone of Schroeders is not to everyone's tastes. They have a very strong mid presence.
[/quote]

i play 2x bc212 and i got to disagree with you. The tone and volume i get from the 12" is great. Maybe you had a bad one just like anything else. I play bad ampeg and ashdown before.