Mark Bass sound - advice please

[basstheface]

Well I asked for tips, advice and wisdom and I've got that in bucket loads! I'm really grateful for your helpful and positive responses.

It was always going to be a challenge for me changing rig after using my previous one for 15 years and I think I have got too hung up on using the filter controls. Will take a fresh look the whole thing and work through all your suggestions and see how I get on from there.

Many thanks again for sharing your experiences and views. Appreciated!

[ezbass]

Don't forget to come back and tell us how you got on.

[JTUK]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1364901325' post='2032296']
Err you can try and set the whole bands sound up around yours, and to some degree you certainly should. But that wont necessarily make the best mix, or indeed make the bass easy to hear on stage, or in the audience.

[/quote]

I wouldn't dictate my sound over anyone else's... That is another fight you don't want to get into..


I would expect everyone to have the common goal of finding a slot or layer for their instrument and we work on it collectively
to the common good. I find I don't really have to mess around too much and I also don't have to have the cabs up near my ears to hear either.
That is a pretty futile exercise to my thinking as then all you have achieved is that YOU can hear...it does nothing for the out front sound.
You are starting in the wrong place there.

We've done this and invaribly have a good sound...and in most rooms.
It is not much like rocket science, really...

[51m0n]

Thats great, then you are doing exactly what I've said, you are slotting everything in around each other. You dont need to bump the mids a mile to do that, no one is suggesting you should, but if you cut them away (those two MB filters set to 9 O'clock is getting on for 20dB of cut in the mids IIRC) it IS harder to hear the bass as a pitched instrument rather than a wobbly noise in the room.

I like a LOT of my bass in my head when I play, with masses of headroom so I dont dig in too hard. I have found that if I dont get my rig up high I will set it too loud for the mix out front (dispersion perhaps but simply distance too) I get it right from where I am standing with it up higher and I find the out front mix is pretty darned good in smaller venues. Or so I've been told by several audience members who I trust to know their beans (cant add up the numebr of years of sound engineering experience between them, but enough to tell me the mix is toilet if it is).

So by positioning my rig to help me, I actually help the FOH sound a great deal, and that is a common issue with bass live especially in smal venues, the player sets their amp up really loud because they cant hear it because they've cut the mids out and its shooting past their calves, so its far too loud and just a huge booom in the room with the punters.

Is your sound super bassy then? Or is it fairly evenly eq'ed, you never actually say and I've not heard a single clip of your band. Genuinely interested in where your sound and attitude to mids fit together with your band sound to be honest....

[lonestar]

I feel a Markbass settings forum coming on...

or maybe a Markbass bash ?

[xgsjx]

[quote name='lonestar' timestamp='1364921874' post='2032687']
I feel a Markbass settings forum coming on...

or maybe a Markbass bash ?
[/quote]

The only problem with putting a "settings" list is that you also have the bass & any effects to chuck into the equation too.
Some basses have quite a lot in the lows, some more in the mids. Then you have strings (I use flats, so no sparkly annoying zing to make you turn the top end down). Then I use a few effects, on being a filter bank that I use to cut out/keep in certain mid range frequencies. When that's on, the bass sounds completely different.

A Markbass Bash is a good idea, but I'm too far away from everyone to join in the fun.

[leroydiamond]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1364922678' post='2032710']
The only problem with putting a "settings" list is that you also have the bass & any effects to chuck into the equation too.
Some basses have quite a lot in the lows, some more in the mids. Then you have strings (I use flats, so no sparkly annoying zing to make you turn the top end down). Then I use a few effects, on being a filter bank that I use to cut out/keep in certain mid range frequencies. When that's on, the bass sounds completely different.

A Markbass Bash is a good idea, but I'm too far away from everyone to join in the fun.
[/quote]
+1. I dont use effects, but I find different basses require a tweak of the VLE, but I always run the VPF off

[lonestar]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1364922678' post='2032710']




A Markbass Bash is a good idea, but I'm too far away from everyone to join in the fun.
[/quote]

You'd probably here it from there but only with VPF off and a little mid boost obviously

Edited April 2, 2013 by lonestar

[deepbass5]

Just to come back to 51 on the VPF setting. have my MB manual out. max setting shows a cut at 350 Hz of about -18dB with a +7dB at 40Hz and +12dB at 10kHz. in fact everything below 100Hz is boosted and everything above 1kHz when this knob is at max.
At 9 o'clock which you state and I also set mine most of the time is probably not going to cut more than -5dB at 350Hz but will also lift the fundimentals and top end a little So removing some troublesome mud and make the top end clearer.
9 O'clock is only about two segments off the start position these amps sit at 7 when off. Just want to check you are not saying 9 o'clock and thinking 9/10 =4 o'clock ???
I don't use it a lot but find the bass boost, and the cut you get with the VPF at 12 or 1 oclock for thumb slap work, works realy well

[51m0n]

Oh balls, I seem to have some form of dyslexia with clock face settings, sorry.

That would probably be my absolute limit on those filters, its a good few db cut in the mids (3 to 6) and a cut above about 10kHz (all the zing goes)

Sorry!

I used to get that far up with the filters but eventually found I could get more useful tone using just the eq. Try it, it may be exactly what you need.

I suggest you play a couple of songs at full volume flat first then apply as little eq to get the sound shaped as you can. At band volumes our hearing behaves very differently from normal practice volumes.

Edited April 2, 2013 by 51m0n

[51m0n]

Nope I have it, it was me referring back to the 3 O'clock in the OP, and confusing it (as is my want) with the 9 O'clock of the second post with your settings in. How very typical!

[Lozz196]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1364931517' post='2032963']
I used to get that far up with the filters but eventually found I could get more useful tone using just the eq. Try it, it may be exactly what you need.
[/quote]

I was exactly the same. I had a great sound using just the VPF filter, but at one rehearsal just decided to try that flat, and use the eq. From there, no going back. The filters are great, but for me the eq is better.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1364989173' post='2033645']
....The filters are great, but for me the eq is better....
[/quote]

+1

When I had an LM2 I switched the filters off and played with the EQ at 12 o'clock. The most "fiddling" I did was to push the low or mid low up a little.

For me the tone of the Markbass running flat was just right.

[basstheface]

So my first gig after my original post starting off this topic was last evening and I tried a completely different approach which was not to use the filters at all and concentrate purely on the bass and amp EQ. The result was a massive improvement. Not quite how I want it still but I feel I'm on the right road now. Thank you again for your inputs and advice.

[chrismuzz]

Excellent news I've found that Markbass amps are the hardest to get a good sound out of, but when you find it... NOTHING can beat it!

[ambient]

Surely one filter counteracts the other doesn't it ? Isn't one cutting the mids and boosting the highs and lows to get a 'smiley' face EQ curve, for a modern sort of sound. The other one is simulating an older Ampeg type of amp.

Why do you use both at the same time, or am I wrong.

I've gigged the same set up as you've got for the last 6 months, and just leave everything flat. That's using a variety of basses depending on the gig.

I think part of the problem nowadays is it's sooooooooo easy to mess you sound up given the flexibility of tone control on an amp.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1368462705' post='2077376']
Surely one filter counteracts the other doesn't it ? Isn't one cutting the mids and boosting the highs and lows to get a 'smiley' face EQ curve, for a modern sort of sound. The other one is simulating an older Ampeg type of amp.

Why do you use both at the same time, or am I wrong.

I've gigged the same set up as you've got for the last 6 months, and just leave everything flat. That's using a variety of basses depending on the gig.

I think part of the problem nowadays is it's sooooooooo easy to mess you sound up given the flexibility of tone control on an amp.
[/quote]

The VLE counteracts the top end of the VPF, but the VPF would still boost the lows & cut more mid.
I tend only to use the VLE slightly (It starts at off & then I increase it slightly to suit as it seems to have a different effect to just turning the highs down).

[LawrenceH]

IMO a lot more people would like Markbass when trying them out for the first time if they just changed how they stuck the VLE/VPF knobs on in the factory, (and adjusted the graphic on the front panel toi match), so that zero was at 12 o clock!
The number of times this appears to confuse people, so they walk away thinking you can't get a good sound out of the amps, must be massive.

[ambient]

I think tonally the LM2 is one of the best amps. I've read numerous times that with everything set flat it's actually pretty colourless, you get out what you put in to it.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1368549280' post='2078397']
I think tonally the LM2 is one of the best amps. I've read numerous times that with everything set flat it's actually pretty colourless, you get out what you put in to it.
[/quote]

Aye but everything flat isn't at 12. The filter knobs are half on at 12 o clock.
They have a range of off to max. Like a standard volume/gain knob.

[ambient]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1368598397' post='2078916']
Aye but everything flat isn't at 12. The filter knobs are half on at 12 o clock.
They have a range of off to max. Like a standard volume/gain knob.
[/quote]

Yeah, I know.

I just leave everything flat on mine, and maybe adjust the bass EQ or just adjust my playing style to suit.

[malcolm.mcintyre]

I am with the OP.
The problem is with the Traveler cabs IMO. There is nothing wrong with the Little Mark III amp, but I have the same problem of an indistinct wooly boomy sound using my TV102 and TV151 cabs with it.
The problem is worse if I try to use my Aguilar DB751 or Ampeg SVT 3pro. Marginally better if both cabs are stacked end on vertically.

Not keen to slag them off, as I probably need to sell them, but I haven't found a single live venue in the past year where this cab combination has worked. However, the TV102 sounds fine, on its own, on a stand in an overdamped rehearsal studio.

Edited June 13, 2013 by malcolm.mcintyre

[gsgbass]

I'm using one Traveler 102P 8 ohm, with a Little Mark Tube 800. I sounds great, even with a Gibson SG Std. bass.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/kzvRvys.jpg?1[/IMG]

[Opticaleye]

Two traveler 102P's together work really well together IME. I used mine with an LM2 for a long while. A really tight punchy sound.

I kind of regret selling mine but I found a combination that worked for me eventually. I prefer Markbass cabs to Bergs and Aguilar cabs etc. (that I've tried). A lot of it is down to finding the right combination of bass,head and cabs though

I've had bad experiences before with mixing speaker sizes.