Loud rehearsals... Why?

[Acebassmusic]

I find we practice better and more productively at lower volumes 'cos its easier to hear what everyone is doing.

[chrismuzz]

This always happens. The best way to do it is to get the drummer to play as he normally would, and base your levels around that. Luckily I've only been in one band where the guitarist insisted on drowning everything else out... and he always told me to bloody turn down I left that band...

[discreet]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1365166457' post='2036203']
The best way to do it is to get the drummer to play as he normally would, and base your levels around that.
[/quote]

That's logical - acoustic drums have no volume control. However, really good drummers can play quietly - even rock drummers. The last band I was in the drummer played so loudly acoustically he didn't need miking up at gigs. Rehearsals were a gruelling ordeal. Even though he was otherwise one of the best drummers I've ever played with, I left. He and the guitarist were 75% deaf and I had to buy a massive rig just to be heard. In the end I was rehearsing with a 1000W+ amp and two 600W 4X10s. [i]Totally [/i]ridiculous.

When I go to a pub or club (for example) and there's a band playing [i]way [/i]too loud, it matters not how good they are, I'm out.
Being excessively loud live is really counter-productive. It makes the engineer's job much harder, too.

Proper musicians know you can give the [i]impression[/i] that you're a loud band, but without the decibels!

Edited April 5, 2013 by discreet

[gafbass02]

I'm very lucky at the moment. My main band rehearses in headphones using a jamhub. It's an amazing sound, everyone has a personalised mix and its as loud as you want it, with excellent clarity. Also free.
My funk band rehearses at very low volume despite the drumkit bring one of the loudest I've ever, ever come across. The kick drum looks like a cannon, its huge. The guy is just very good at reigning it in.
I don't miss loud rehearsals.

[thunderbird13]

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1365167067' post='2036218']
I'm very lucky at the moment. My main band rehearses in headphones using a jamhub. It's an amazing sound, everyone has a personalised mix and its as loud as you want it, with excellent clarity. Also free.
[/quote]

I could never get used to jamhub- I cant jump around or pull stage shapes properly , surely that is what rehearsals are for

[gafbass02]

Hahah. I must admit, when I was younger I'd agree with that, now all my shapes are in the bag

[chris_b]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1365166887' post='2036214']
....acoustic drums have no volume control....
[/quote]

But they do. It's called the drummer.

All drummers are totally responsible for the volume they play at, via their technique.

[xgsjx]

So maybe the best approach is to get the plugs (they're not dear & I don't want to lose hearing in my right ear too) & use them to start with, then once we get comfortable playing together, have a talk with everyone & hit the volume issue on the head?

I need to have a look at this "jamhub". it might be a good option?

The drummer hasn't got his own kit yet & just using the one in the rooms. He's getting a kit fairly soon & is considering an electronic kit as it could suit the style of stuff we're doing better. That would kill the "drummer volume" issue, though he's capable of playing at sensible levels as it is.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1365166887' post='2036214']...acoustic drums have no volume control. However, [s]really[/s] good drummers can play quietly - even rock drummers...[/quote]

This ^^^.
Good drummers can play at any level, any style.It's not anti-rock, or even difficult. Ears bleeding during practice is not recommended. Once the drummer's level is agreed by all, all play to [i]that [/i]level; end of story. No 'rocket science' involved. If Ear protection is necessary, wear it, but you're too loud already. Playing [i]that [/i]loud at venues will not get you return bookings, ime.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1365167067' post='2036218']
I'm very lucky at the moment. My main band rehearses in headphones using a jamhub. It's an amazing sound, everyone has a personalised mix and its as loud as you want it, with excellent clarity. Also free.
My funk band rehearses at very low volume despite the drumkit bring one of the loudest I've ever, ever come across. The kick drum looks like a cannon, its huge. The guy is just very good at reigning it in.
I don't miss loud rehearsals.
[/quote]I like the sound of that.

[Jellyfish]

Perhaps ask the drummer, or keep asking the drummer, if the volume of the guitarist is okay. Guitarist sounds like a typical "wailer", but I do suggest earplugs. I wear them when I play drums and I wear them when I play bass and all they do is bring down the volume of everything.

[thunderbird13]

yeah I wouydl endorse the earplugs as well ,I have the cheap christmas tree ones and although they do look a bit stupid they do a good job and make everything easier to hear. There are better ones which are moulded to your ear but I forget what they are called

[JTUK]

We are a loud band..and it is the snare that does it. We always try and get feed back about the volume and
generally it doesn't kill us. Apart from the constant exposure, I don't see why bands should have to use plugs
and then play to that volume and leave the audience to suffer..?? but I take my plugs to other band gigs so
you have a choice, use them or lose it..
The sound difference with plugs in is way more than a loss of top, IMO... but they are things you should come to terms with.

Our gtr uses a 25w valve type head, the keys has a 2x300w P.A , but it is the snare that does the damage

[Lowender]

There should be 2 types of practice. One is the type where you work things out. That can be done without even plugging in. The other is the type where you play the way you're going to perform. If it's loud music, play loud and learn how to make it sound good and loud -- not just loud and sloppy.

As for the drummer, in moist situations he'd be miked so asking him to "play softer" is silly since it'll affect the feel of the music. You have to lay into drums to get a sound. Of course if you're in a cocktail lounge band, that's one thing, but if it's a rock band , you have to HIT the drums.

And yeah, you should always wear something in your ears.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Lowender

[gafbass02]

[quote name='steve-soar' timestamp='1365169057' post='2036257']
I like the sound of that.
[/quote]

http://www.jamhub.com/

I really can't recommend it enough. You need extra bits to really make it work. Modellers for guitar and bass, in my case the floor fx do the job perfectly, and an electronic kit. We use one of the cheapest around, and it still sounds fine.
No more traipsing gear around, setting up for ages, paying for rooms, no more time pressures and the fact that its all in your ears lets you really hear what's happening, and you still get the adrenalin rush. Just the best rehearsal solution ive found in twenty years. We bought our bedroom model from gig funds, Just wish we could've afforded one with a recorder built in, but to be fair you can link it to a recording device so not a big issue.

[leroydiamond]

[quote name='Wil' timestamp='1365163890' post='2036146']


In all seriousness, I've got a pair of ER20s or whatever they're called and hate using them. Everything sounds muffled, I cant hear my guitar properly (yes, guitar) and it sucks all the fun out of rehearsal for me. Are the really expensive moulded earplugs any better?
[/quote]

ACS moulded plugs are top class. I have been using them for several years. They are the best and my ears deserve the best. Hearing loss should not be taken lightly and tinnitus can be really debilitating.

[leroydiamond]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1365164728' post='2036162']
No, you hear everything as normal, only once the SPLs reach a certain level, the plugs start working. You might experience a slight loss of top end, but nothing serious. Even your earphones would be better than nothing.

You've already experienced hearing damage, so if you want to finish the job that's up to you. It amazes me how people will spend more than they can afford on bass gear then neglect their hearing. How important is it for you to be able to hear what you're doing?

There's nothing macho or 'Rock 'n' Roll' about being deaf - and when it happens through persistent neglect it's just bloody stupid. Why would you deliberately risk losing one of your five senses for the want of a tenner?
[/quote]

+ 1. But I think a tenner will not do the trick if you want to protect your hearing and enjoy your playing, hence moulded plugs are the best way to go IMO

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1365165428' post='2036179']Reality check people; anyone who doesn't like the "muffled" sound of their music through ear plugs will find out that everything will sound just like that in less time that they imagine. And that "mud" will be permanent.[/quote]

^this!
I could give a fairly long list as to how gig induced hearing loss & tinnitus affects your every day life; & it isn't funny like they make out in comics & TV shows - not for 99% of the time it isn't anyway.
It was good at the time mind - but not worth it now.

[urb]

Without dynamics an audience will switch off when listening to your band live - I'm sure you know this - but it's a solid argument to put to the guys and say if we start at 11 then there's no where else to go - with my band if someone is soloing or we are starting a tune we always build up from simple, quieter stuff to louder busier stuff - but always drop back - and don't be afraid of less is more - drums dropping out for 16 bars etc are great dynamic devices that can break up the wall of sound and let your grooves BREATHE... I don't need to tell you this I know - but I've been in similar situations in the past - experience has proved that lower the volume is always a good thing...

[alyctes]

Mostly, we rehearse without a mic for the singer. If we can't hear her, we're too loud. I recommend it.

[icastle]

I just practice my version of democracy in rehearsals.

It generally involves some rude words alongside 'loud' and 'too'.

[xgsjx]

Some good ideas there (apart from the rude words, of course. A mallet should suffice).
I think plugs shall be ordered soon.

[seashell]

Luckily we don't have this problem. Everyone seems to play at a fairly sensible level. I certainly don't have ringing ears after rehearsals.

But guitarists in both bands are always telling me to turn it up a bit! It's a confidence thing. I'm still afraid that if I play too loud, people might actually HEAR me!

[wateroftyne]

Unless you're a Doom band (or whatever it's called this week), there's no need to be painfully loud at rehearsals, or even gigs for that matter.

Most of the bands I know who play too loud do it because a) they're inexperienced or b ) deaf, because they've played too loud for decades, and they can't hear themselves.

Edited April 6, 2013 by wateroftyne

[paul_5]

Get your guitarist to stand further away from his amp and try raising it up closer to ear level.