A question about fingerstyle, a Warwick and a Sue Ryder

[SimonH]

Apologies for the long post, but I'm looking for a little advice. Bought a Warwick Corvette $$ recently; my first £200+ bass, although I have some nice vintage Ibanezes and a tasty bitsa Precision. Not been playing long, couple of years, but was a guitarist for decades before discovering I should've been playing bass all the time.

Anyway, I've set the Warwick up to my taste - action on the floor, and closed up the string spacing because a) I don't have long fingers and with a Warwick, I can.

So here's the question: sat down to learn Cosmic Girl by Jamiroquai for the covers band I'm in. I love playing fingerstyle and I always practise using it at home. But for some reason I can never play fingerstyle live; don't know why. I can't keep my timing so I use a pick instead. I do everything the same at home - stand up, etc - so the only thing I can think of is it's something to do with live drums. Our drummer, bless him, isn't the tightest in the house and he often manages to vary the tempo within a bar, let alone a song. After a fill I often have to wait to let him catch back up.

Anyway, that isn't the question. The question is this - when it comes to the chorus of the song, and the octave string jumps, it's really really easy to play on my Sue Ryder Precision and it's really hard to play on the Warwick. My fingers sort of stumble on the octave strings and I have to really exaggerate my wrist bend to get a solid pluck. On the Ryder, my hand is already naturally at the right angle and my fingers just slip off the strings nicely. The strings are the same gauge, the set-up the same... so why is that? It's a bit annoying really, having spent all that money on the Warwick for it not to feel as easy to play - at least that song - than a cheap bass.

Is it, as I'm starting to think, simply that the Ryder bass has a Fender forearm chamfer and the Warwick is a flat top with no chamfer? Or could my closed up string spacing on the Warwick be putting me off somehow?

Sorry for the extended question. Just wondered if it was a common issue with non-chamfered bodies that I haven't heard about.

Cheers for reading! All advice welcome (apart from 'sell the Corvette'!).

SimonH

[attachment=131960:20130406_223254.jpg]

Edited April 6, 2013 by SimonH

[chrismuzz]

Personally I would put it down to the string spacing. I had a similar problem when I first went from 4 to 6 because the spacing was dramatically narrower. Never thought about the body chamfer though! You could try altering the spacing on the Warwick to match the Precision and see if it's more comfortable... Who knows, the fingerboard radius might even be the issue!

Even if its not something you can 'fix', you will eventually get used to playing both basses. Good luck

Edited April 6, 2013 by chrismuzz

[D.I. Joe]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1365284912' post='2037749']
Personally I would put it down to the string spacing. I had a similar problem when I first went from 4 to 6 because the spacing was dramatically narrower. Never thought about the body chamfer though! You could try altering the spacing on the Warwick to match the Precision and see if it's more comfortable... Who knows, the fingerboard radius might even be the issue!

Even if its not something you can 'fix', you will eventually get used to playing both basses. Good luck
[/quote]

Agreed, My first thought would be the spacing.

Is it only this song that you struggle with? In your post you mentioned that when playing fingerstyle live, you mess up your timing. Maybe you just get a little carried away and pluck a little heavy - I know I do sometimes! If that is the case then try and reign it in a bit. Control > power

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='D.I. Joe' timestamp='1365346594' post='2038288']
Maybe you just get a little carried away and pluck a little heavy - I know I do sometimes! If that is the case then try and reign it in a bit. Control > power
[/quote]

Yeah, actually I had this problem for years! it came down to not being able to hear myself, and trying to play extra hard to compensate

[bremen]

Sorry, I know "sell the Corvette" isn't an acceptable reply but it does sound like a Precision is the bass for you ;-)

[JapanAxe]

Suggest you pick up the Warwick and play the riff or a small part of is as slowly as you can. Observe yourself to see whether anything is going wrong. If not, speed up slightly and repeat until you get it wrong. Then home in on each little action you are doing until you find the culprit.

You may also have issues generally with your plucking-hand technique. Any chance you could post a short vid?

[SimonH]

Thanks for the replies and advice... I've been thinking and working it out this afternoon and I really think it's down to wrist angle. When I change the angle I hold the Warwick at - to let me straighten my wrist out - it gets easier. I tried slowing the riff down and then working back up on the Warwick and it's certainly not impossible - it's just easier on the P.

I think I need a Sandberg, not a Warwick :-).

I also suspected trying to play too loud might be the problem with the fingerstyle in general. I'll crank the MB rig next weekend and see what happens!

[Phil Starr]

You are talking about wrist angle and i think your plucking hand. I play a Jazz but just bought a Thunderbird, just about as different as you can get but it made me realise different instruments sit differently on your body. The T'bird sits well to the right and twists away from your body, since noticing this I've noticed it to a lesser degree with all basses, which means your hands are at different angles bass to bass. Try adjusting the strap length to get your wrists back into a comfortable, familiar position.

As to timing issues, they may not be as bad as you think. The envelope of the note is so different between a pick and fingers, with the attack of the pick at the front edge of the beat followed by a rapid decay. Picked notes have a rounder envelope so you inevitably lose some of the ability to match your front edge with the front edges of kick and snare. You may be hearing the difference between the styles rather than an actual timing issue. Try and record yourself at a gig and listen back when you have some distance from the gig and can be more objective. The other problem with picking is damping the notes, you can't palm mute and you have to deliberately damp with a mixture of both hands.

It works the other way too, I always feel really clumsy on the few songs I play with a pick and it never sounds right to me. No-one else notices.

[ubassman]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1365408216' post='2038997']
You are talking about wrist angle and i think your plucking hand.

[/quote]

+1 on that.

Most likely thing causing the issue with the octaves is a 'postural' difference i,e, the difference between your arm position and the body height, body depth and position of the strings of each instrument. All affects the angle + dangle of your wrist and how your fingers come into contact with the strings ! The solution may simply lie in figuring out the 'postural' adjustments that you need to make playing Warwick

1/. Compare where your knuckles are relative to the strings on both instruments - are the knuckles centred over the fretboard or are they above the E string or somewhere else on each instrument?



2/. Observe the line and angle of your forearm where it is in contact with the body of the Precision and compare with your Warwick .

A check in the mirror might help you figure out what to do. If the 'posture' of the forearm and wrist are not the same then the way that the fingers come into contact with the strings will be different . Quick experiment - if you place your hand bang on 90 degrees to the E string the only finger that comes into contact with the string is the middle . Without adjustment the timing of the fingers can be unequal resulting in a 'limping' rhythm ( middle is bold as its in contact, index is weaker as it has to move to hit the string) . Some players tilt their hand a bit towards the bridge to even out the fingers so that the part where the finger comes into contact is to the left of the tip just like this photo below ( thats not me in the image btw - just to illustrate the point!). Other players attack square on but bend the middle finger more so that it has the effect of shortening the finger - which ever way is comfortable. Hope some of this helps and good luck with it!!

Edited April 8, 2013 by ubassman