Wizard pickups - Advice needed!

[bisonkills]

Hey guys,

Right, I'm looking to change out the pickups in my Tanglewood Overwater Classic J which has a P/J pickup configuration. The P sounds good, but the J pickup is a bit thin and lacking. I'm thinking of going for a P/J set from [url="http://www.wizardpickups.co.uk/moreinfo.asp?id=54"]Wizard Pickups[/url]. He has two variations on the set, a regular P/J set consisting of a '64 Jazz Bass bridge pickup and a Trad P Bass. The other option is a P/J (Big) which are described as Fatter, Rounded more middy tone and they are just a tad more powerful.

Anyone got experience with either set, or had the rare chance to compare the two?

I play mostly finger style, prog rock / math rock type stuff with occasional forays in heavy riff type stuff. Examples of my playing with my band Mononoke [url="http://mononokeisaband.bandcamp.com/album/issue-1"]here[/url]. Any sage like advice welcome! I dig 70s style bass tones, bands like Free and early Yes, but that perhaps has more to with the amps they were using. I'm after a warm full tone that still cuts nicely.

My rig is a Mark Bass Little Mark III with a Mark Bass NY121 cab.

Edited April 7, 2013 by bisonkills

[ead]

Please pardon my ignorance, but what is math rock?

Can't speak for the PJ Wizards, but I owned a Jazz with '64s in that were really sweet.

[gary mac]

I would advise phoning Wizard and discussing your pup needs. It's what I've done a couple of times in the past, he was very helpful and got me sorted on both occasions.

[dave_bass5]

Ive used Wizards and they are good pups. Ive got 74's in my Jazz. A bit less dark sounding compared to the 84's but still with a bit more punch than the more traditional sounding 64's.

Please, what is Math rock. Its a phrase i have never heard of before.

[bartelby]

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Math_rock"]Math rock[/url] & [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathcore"]Math Core[/url]

[dave_bass5]

Ah right, one of those made up names for something that already existed under another name lol.

Cheers.

[bisonkills]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback!

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1365413438' post='2039068']
Ah right, one of those made up names for something that already existed under another name lol.

Cheers.
[/quote]

Dave and Ead, yes, what I'd likely call prog rock the other (slightly younger) members of my band call math rock. It is a discernable genre for sure, but really is an extension of the best of 70s prog with an updated palette of sounds / influences.

[b]Another general question[/b] - Do you think there is much to be gained by going for more boutique pickups like the Wizards? Unsure of the quality of the Overwater pickups (No idea if they are a cheaper version of what goes in the top of the line basses?)

If the difference is significant, then I'll go for it I think.

Edited April 8, 2013 by bisonkills

[dave_bass5]

Yeah, i can see the connection. Id call it music to trip over to lol (i do like a bit of old school Prog though).

I cant comment on the Overwater pups but i dont think cost has much to do with it these days. The Wizards have a good rep on here, but if you dont like the tone then its a waste of money.
I would say that out do all the more Boutique pups the wizards are probably the cheapest, and you wouldn't loose much if you had to sell one on.

Personally i didnt like the Thumper i had, it just wasn't the tone i was looking for, although i did live with ti for a good few months. I got a Fender 62RI to replace it and much preferred that, but recently got a Fralin (at almost twice the price) and really dont notice much difference. Each has a different tone though and i wouldn't say one was better than the other, just different.

As already suggested give Andy a call or email and explain what you want or are hoping to achieve, and he will either guide you in the right direction, or maybe even custom wind a set to meet your requirements. He did this with my 74's, at no extra cost, and took the 84's i had back as i didnt like them. Fantastic service.

[Ant]

i have a pair of wizard hammers in one of my basses and they sound massive, lots of growly mids, try one of those in the bridge.

[brensabre79]

As above, give Andy a call. He is really helpful and obliging.

I ended up with a custom wound '74s Jazz set for my bass after i spoke about my needs. He asked me to send the first bridge pickup back when i told him it wasn't bassy enough for my 70s position bridge pickup, it came back a week later, rewound and slightly more bassy. There was nothing wrong with the original in the normal 60s position, but the 70s spacing required something a little different - which he was more than happy to do.

For prog (math) rock, I'd say you need a big heavy sound but with plenty of definition in the mid range.

[Muzz]

I've got the Big pair in a couple of basses, and I really like them, very ballsy pickups, and one of the few bridge Js I'd ever consider using soloed.

[bisonkills]

[quote name='Ant' timestamp='1365424969' post='2039321']
i have a pair of wizard hammers in one of my basses and they sound massive, lots of growly mids, try one of those in the bridge.
[/quote]

This may be a sensible option, I could perhaps go for a slightly overwound J pickup, and a trad (or big) P.

[bisonkills]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1365428251' post='2039406']
I've got the Big pair in a couple of basses, and I really like them, very ballsy pickups, and one of the few bridge Js I'd ever consider using soloed.
[/quote]

Cool. Does the P still have the kind of vintage sounding warmth you'd expect from such a pickup? This is my only concern with the (big) set.

[Cat Burrito]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1365404929' post='2038963']
I would advise phoning Wizard and discussing your pup needs. It's what I've done a couple of times in the past, he was very helpful and got me sorted on both occasions.
[/quote]
Plus one to this - he (Andy, I believe) was really helpful when I spoke to him

[ead]

It may also be worth a call to Chris May, he very much takes the attitude that if it has Overwater on the headstock it's his product whether built in Carlisle or not.

I'm fairly sure that another BCer had a similar problem, Chris asked him tot bring the bass in, OW replaced the P/up FOC and give the bass a good set up to boot. He's very happy now, sorry can't remember his BC name but he's popping over for a coffee tonight and a bass related natter so will ask him.

[Spoombung]

I had the 64 in the treble position on a PJ. I didn't think much of it, unfortunately, despite all the good reviews. A bit thin and lifeless. I ended up replacing it with a Bart humbucker in the end as I didn't think the alternatives would have suited me.

As others have pointed out, the boss at the company is very helpful, though.

[bisonkills]

Spoke to Andy at Wizard, who basically advised that with any P/J combo the J pickup is always going to be comparatively weak and thin sounding compared to the P. Makes sense. He seemed unsure if new pups would make that much tonal difference as he wasn't familiar with the bass. I'm also discussing the issue with Chris at Overwater who has suggested one of their own Jazz 'original' pickups as opposed to what's in there now might make a difference.

So, this whole thing got me thinking. Since I tend to use mostly the P tone (with a touch of the J blended in), perhaps I should convert it to a P bass. I could put in one of the Wizard Ps, but would have to find a scratch plate that would cover the J cavity.

Thoughts?

Again, thanks to everyone for the feedback.

Edited April 12, 2013 by bisonkills

[Sibob]

A good way of getting around the P/J issue is to have a Jazz humbucker (Dimarzio UltraJazz for example) in the bridge position, this evens it out slightly with the P pickup.
This is what I've had done in my P/J fretless

Si

[dave_bass5]

Thats what i did with my old Lakland DJ5 that i had converted to a PJ. At first i kept the original bridge pup in but it really didnt sound good (i dont use the bridge pup on a jazz soloed anyway), but putting a Jazz HB in made it seem more worthwhile having a pup in the position.

[mike257]

I put a Wizard Thumper/84 combo in a Squier P/J bass I upgraded. Was a good few years ago and they didn't have as wide a range of pickups or market any specific P/J sets at the time.

Spoke to Andy beforehand about the kind of tone I was looking for and my requirements and he custom wound the set for me with the J slightly hotter than normal. Both sound great but as mentioned further up the P always overpowers the J and I find myself using the Thumper exclusively. That's not to say the 84 isn't a great pickup, just that in this bass I get everything I need from the P pickup and it sounds brilliant.

It's definitely worth a call or email as Andy is very knowledgeable and helpful.

Edited April 13, 2013 by mike257

[Mornats]

I have the exact same bass as you Bisonkills and also the same problem of the J being much much quieter than the P. My other basses are like this too (as the J never matches the P for volume on any bass) but with the Classic J bass the difference in volume is far greater than any of my other basses. So I was thinking about replacing the J or both pickups but want to keep the classic P sound.

Let me know what you do and how works out as I may well follow suit. Or if I find a good solution I'll let you know too! I did lower the P a bit (well, it's almost completely sunk into the body) and raised the J (which is now almost touching the strings) and it's evened it out to the same volume difference as my other basses but it really shouldn't need this extreme positioning to get it working that way IMO.

[Conan]

Is it possible to add a capacitor or a resistor or some other electrical component between the P pickup and the socket? Just to somehow "cool" or attenuate the output of the louder pickup to something similar to the J? Then just turn the amp up a bit....

I am no elctrical wizard (pun partly intended) so please don't take the piss if this suggestion is stupid...

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1366036473' post='2047527']...Just to somehow "cool" or attenuate the output of the louder pickup to something similar to the J?...[/quote]

Many 2-p/up basses now have a 'pan-pot' instead of seperate volume pots, for balancing the two. Many (most..?) on-board pre-amps have this facility; the 'active' part would more than compensate for any reduction in level, with the advantage of using 'additive' tone (being active...).
Maybe a pre-amp would be an option for the OP..?
Hope this helps.

[Raslee]

I've got passive 64's P/J in my Warwick Fortress. It is by far my favourite sounding bass, 2 vol 2 tone config wired by BC's Kiogon. Results are Very warm, vintage sounds...a superb combination in my opinion - highly recommend for funk, soul etc

[rob.mayzes]

Also just got 74's in my jazz. This time he charged slightly extra for them than the standard models (£85)

When I got them the solders were loose, which I didn't see as a massive issue, but Andy refunded me a reasonable amount of money for the problem! The sound is exactly what I wanted.

Excellent guy to deal with, was very helpful throughout and I now consider myself a Wizard advocate and would recommend them to anyone