Help me find an amp

[richardjmorgan]

[size=4]So, to save on rehearsal room amp rental fees and have a bit more control over overall bass sound, I'm thinking it's probably a good idea to buy myself an amp and, being primarily a guitarist, I have no idea what I'm doing. Thought you lot may be able to help out.[/size]

REQUIREMENTS:

• Ideally, a degree (although not a huge amount) of versatility would be nice – I may end up splitting the cost with the bassist in the band I play guitar for. So this means being able to get a suitable sound for both bands (1. Ramones/Screeching Weasel-esque punk, occasional fuzz/OD use; 2. fast, thrashy metal tuned down to C#/drop would be handy. I'm not after any sort of super-clean funk sounds or owt; it's all under the broad umbrella of "noisy rock stuff"

• I'd rather get something relatively small if possible, as storage space is at a bit of a premium at our practice room (mainly due to my ludicrously-sized guitar rig). Also, although a massive Ampeg rig would be super cool, it's just really not going to be practical or affordable.

• Looking for a head and cab, rather than a combo, as it gives the option of sharing cabs at gigs (which happens a fair bit for us). For the same reason, don't want to be too dependent on cab for the sound; a head that'll play nicely with a variety of different cabs is a definite plus.

• To be honest, the cheaper the better, although I'm willing to spend a bit more to get something that better fits the above requirements. For reasons mentioned above, I think I'd prefer to spend more on the amp, less on the cab, although I'm willing to be persuaded that's a stupid idea.

• In the punk band, it's essentially got to keep up with a Tiny Terror or two, but in the metal band it needs to be able to hold its own alongside a couple of ~100W valvey beasts. But neither of us are the sort of guitarists who scoop out the mids and crank the volume, so there's a bit of tonal room there for the bass.

ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS:

• The Orange Bass Terror (500W; 1000 seems silly for the sort of size venues we're likely to play – mostly small pub back room type things) looks quite appealing at the moment. Any reason this would be a bad call, or is there something better out there for my purposes?

• I've used a Sansamp a fair bit in the past for direct recording and have quite liked the results, but never live. Is it something that's worth looking into, or is it surplus to requirements if you have an amp with a decent built-in DI?

• I know nothing about bass cabs at all. As a guitarist, any speakers that aren't 12" in diameter scare and confuse me.

• Wile we're on the topic of "scaring and confusing me because I know next to nothing about them", the same applies for any manufactures who primarily concentrate on bass amps, rather than also doing guitar stuff.

So, er, yeah, any help much appreciated.

[Lozz196]

First off, an idea of budget will help any recommendations.

For a small amp doing the type of music stated, I`d look at the Gallien Krueger MB Fusion 500. If you can get a used one, this will be ideal. I used mine with a good few different cabs, and it worked well with all.

The Orange Terror is a great sounding amp, but it`s not the most versatile.

The Sansamp - well it`s a good option, as you can get one of these, and an amp head, and set the amp flat, essentially using it as a power amp, get all your eq from the Sansamp, and if needed, DI out from it, rather than the amp. I do this with my Zoom B3 - which has many different pedals/amp-modelling. So then, if using provided rigs, recording etc, your sound will always be as you want it - except maybe on stage that is.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Lozz196

[richardjmorgan]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1365768428' post='2044167']
First off, an idea of budget will help any recommendations.

For a small amp doing the type of music stated, I`d look at the Gallien Krueger MB Fusion 500. If you can get a used one, this will be ideal. I used mine with a good few different cabs, and it worked well with all.

The Orange Terror is a great sounding amp, but it`s not the most versatile.

The Sansamp - well it`s a good option, as you can get one of these, and an amp head, and set the amp flat, essentially using it as a power amp, get all your eq from the Sansamp, and if needed, DI out from it, rather than the amp. I do this with my Zoom B3 - which has many different pedals/amp-modelling. So then, if using provided rigs, recording etc, your sound will always be as you want it - except maybe on stage that is.
[/quote]

Cheers!

Forgive me if I'm being thick here, but if I were to go the sansamp route, doesn't this mean I don't really need to concern myself too much with what my amp sounds like, and just go for something that's cheap and suitably loud, since all the sound sculpting will be done on the SA?

Oh yeah, budget-wise, I really don't have a clue how much bass gear tends to cost, but I really would like to spend as little as possible, assuming it'll get me something that'll do the job I'd rather spend a bit more though than get something super-cheap that'll need upgrading/replacing down the line once I realise I'm dissatisfied with it. Is doing the whole lot for ≤£500 at all feasible, or will I need to get scrabbling down the back of the sofa?

Edited April 12, 2013 by richardjmorgan

[richardjmorgan]

Oh, something else I wondered: with amps with a built in DI out, can they be used sans cab for direct recording, or would that require some sort of dummy load to avoid blowing it up?

[discreet]

[quote name='richardjmorgan' timestamp='1365769343' post='2044187']
Forgive me if I'm being thick here, but if I were to go the sansamp route, doesn't this mean I don't really need to concern myself too much with what my amp sounds like, and just go for something that's cheap and suitably loud, since all the sound sculpting will be done on the SA?
[/quote]

That's it. In fact you could use a power amp. As long as you have reliable clean power you can effectively use the SA as a pre-amp, as Lozz has said. The B3 is particularly good for this as it has a choice of really good amp sims and processors so you can get whatever sound you want. They are very good value second hand too... if you can find one.

[JTUK]

In itself, £500 looks on the short side.

since you are unclear on what you want, get something like Ampeg as the name appeals on resale.
Best band for buck cab..IMO..is a SWR Goliath ll/lll410 but they are heavy and that is half your budget. (£250-ish)

If you could pick up an SVT3 for £350..you only need to find £100...
That rig will do most gigs. The cab is clean..the amp is grindey, IMO.
Another route would be GK....to get to the same sort of place, soundwise.

[discreet]

[quote name='richardjmorgan' timestamp='1365770153' post='2044210']
Oh, something else I wondered: with amps with a built in DI out, can they be used sans cab for direct recording, or would that require some sort of dummy load to avoid blowing it up?
[/quote]

If they're SS and not all-tube amps then yes, as long as you keep the master level at zero.

[discreet]

I'm pretty sure this would be similar to the B3, but I haven't tried one yet - they're new.
[url="http://www.zoom.co.jp/products/ms-60b/"]http://www.zoom.co.jp/products/ms-60b/[/url]

[size=4]Edit: But it doesn't have a balanced XLR DI out. [/size]

Edited April 12, 2013 by discreet

[alexclaber]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1365770502' post='2044219']If they're SS and not all-tube amps then yes, as long as you keep the master level at zero.[/quote]

It doesn't matter where the master level is, amplifiers with a solidstate output stage are not bothered in the least by being used without a speaker connected. In fact, if there's a headphone socket on a bass amp it's usually just tapped off the power amp output with some resistors to bring the level down.

If you own an all-valve amp, you'll know about it - it'll be heavy, expensive and contain a lot of glass! The only exceptions are the very rare solidstate power amps with output transformers - I don't know of any bass amp with one, although the Hellborg power amps have them and the likes of McIntosh power amps had them in the '70s.

[discreet]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1365780921' post='2044491']
It doesn't matter where the master level is...
[/quote]

I bow to your superior knowledge, Alex. When I mailed Markbass to ask about this they told me it's best to keep the master at zero when using their amps as pre-amps. This may only apply to Markbass amps, or could just be a load of old bull-plop of course, but that's what they told me!

Edited April 12, 2013 by discreet