That 'All-valve' bounce...

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1366157081' post='2049162']
Modern speakers are plenty damped all on their own. Modern like not 1930s. If damping factor was an issue, cabs would sound significantly different depending on if they are wired in series or parallel. [url="http://www.cartchunk.org/audiotopics/SeriesSpeaker.pdf"]http://www.cartchunk...riesSpeaker.pdf[/url]

Some barefaced specific stuff: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/13344-old-barefaced-news-see-our-website-for-the-latest-news/page__st__80__p__389884#entry389884"]http://basschat.co.u...884#entry389884[/url]
[/quote]

The article is about series vs parallel wiring and correctly states that it makes no difference and this is obvious given that even a single speaker is essential n speakers in series where n is the number of winds on the coil, the article also shows that at least part of the overall damping is still electrical.

[Opticaleye]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1366205638' post='2049576']
OK I tried a TTE500 today, and whilst I can see what people mean about it being a convincing valve emulator, it does not have the bounce. And, actually i didn't like it that much either. The compressor was good, but overall it just didn't have the weight.

Which is a shame really because I was hopeful about that one.

The music store chappy did tell me about a new MESA amp that was coming out with a valve power stage but in a smaller light(ish) box, but he had no more info on it and said its not been released yet.

Edit: Just found them online, It's a [url="http://www.gearhounds.com/mesa-boogie-prodigy-bass-head.aspx"]Mesa Bass Prodigy[/url] and looks pretty good
[/quote]

I find the TTE 500 compares very well to a SVT Classic for valve "feel" (I much prefer the tone as well). I've heard mine with someone else playing through it and it carries that feel to the back of the room. Are you sure that the input pad wasn't pressed in (it's very easy to do). The colour control can make a big difference in a live situation. That and the valve compressor really thickens the tone up.
I have a Compressore and a DHA VT1 EQ and although the tone is good I agree that it doesn't get the feel.

[brensabre79]

Well the TTE certainly seems to be the closest thing I've [i]heard[/i], but for me, whilst it had the sound. It didn't have the feel.

Now it could be that because I was in a music shop, and didn't have it cranked, but the 'bounce' I was talking about just didn't seem to be there... it wasn't alive!

I'm really interested to try this new Mesa Boogie Prodigy amp, which is an all valve amp, but in a smaller, lighter box. But no idea when it will be out yet...

It may even not be the valve power stage but more to do with the transformer, so the Mesa might not cut it, who knows?

[One Drop]

There are a lot of solutions for emulating the sound of various tube amps (or various sounds from a specific tube amp) but i've never played a SS amp or a pedal that had the feel of playing through an all tube amp. That bounce or whatever you want to call it is real and some players love it and some don't like it at all. Personally i love the feel of a good tube amp, it's a big part of why I haul my SVT around, and I really don't care if anyone in the world notices but myself.

RE: The Walkabout, it's a gorgeously tuby sounding amp, has all the good things I like about the tone of an all tube amp, more so than any other SS one i've tried. The feel isn't there, though. I've never owned one becuse I'm a little afraid of the lack of power, but I guess i won't know until i try one on a few gigs.

[Opticaleye]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1366367117' post='2051472']
Well the TTE certainly seems to be the closest thing I've [i]heard[/i], but for me, whilst it had the sound. It didn't have the feel.

Now it could be that because I was in a music shop, and didn't have it cranked, but the 'bounce' I was talking about just didn't seem to be there... it wasn't alive!

[/quote]

It was when you mentioned that it doesn't have the "weight" (I assume behind each note).To me the "aliveness" and weight are two of the TTE's greatest qualities and is something other bass players have remarked to me that it has in abundance, which is why I mentioned the input pad switch.

If ever I am getting an "average" sound from my amp it is always because this switch is pushed in. It's very easy to catch when you plug in the jack lead.

[0175westwood29]

Have you tried the aguilar db750? Loads of weight behind each note! Loved mine was gutted i had to sell.

All valve amp my fav is the orange ad200, and you could probs pic up 2 second hand for the price of the mesa.

Andy

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1366448204' post='2052674']
Have you tried the aguilar db750? Loads of weight behind each note! Loved mine was gutted i had to sell.

All valve amp my fav is the orange ad200, and you could probs pic up 2 second hand for the price of the mesa.

Andy
[/quote]

I'm not sure the DB750 falls into the OP's 'lightweight' category...

[brensabre79]

Well a fellow basschatter contacted me via PM just before the weekend and urged me to try his amp before I made any rash decisions. I must admit I was somewhat skeptical when he said it was a Carvin BX500. I didn't even know they made amps for a start! Secondly, it seemed to be exactly the same sort of thing as my Genz, 12ax7 loaded pre-amp with a Class D SMPS power section. Thirdly, everyone always says [i]their[/i] amp is the best one on the planet - hey I recommend the Genz to lots of people too.

Never one to jump to conclusions however, I thought "what harm can it do to give it a go?" and the BC'er (who contacted me via PM so I assume wishes to remain private) very kindly turned up to a gig I had on Friday night, amp in tow - well, in a backpack actually... After talking to the BC'er, I discovered it's half the price that my Genz was new - I wasn't expecting great things at this point and was fully prepared to say, thanks and smile politely.

So I played the first set with the Carvin, and WOW! It bounced, it was warm, and powerful and IMMEDIATE. Every note was right there under even the lightest touch. I had to keep turning around to look at it in disbelief actually.

Even the band noticed, and they hadn't seen me plug the Carvin in at all. After two songs the drummer leant over and said "Hey Bren what have you done to your bass? it sounds really FAT tonight" We finished the set with Rhythm Stick, a song that I normally find really hard work to push the notes out, not this night, they bounced out of the speaker with surprising ease.

Anyway, the BC'er had to leave after the first set, so I got to A/B this thing properly. I plugged my Genz back in.

It sounded good, it always does, and I would still recommend it for its great sound, power and portability, but it just didn't bounce, like the Carvin did. And, whilst it wasn't quite in the league of an all-valve amp, price and portability factors considered it was close enough, and closer than any other solid state amp I've tried by a long way.

So there it is folks, I'm ordering one today.
I might get that Mesa amp when it comes out too, but as they have been promising it for about 2 years with no release date as yet I'm not going to wait. Plus, if I end up running an all-valve rig, it will probably be a good idea to have a reliable spare in the bag!

[Mykesbass]

Hi Bren,

Didn't want to remain anonymous, just wanted to hear your genuine response to the Carvin before discussing it - I almost feel embarrassed to compare it to amps costing at least twice as much so wanted you and I to get your own unbiased opinion on it.

Thrilled you like it (as I'm sure Phil at Bass Gear will be)

Great band and fabulous playing, esp you and your drummer!

Mike

[dannybuoy]

Surprised by this as we don't hear much about this amp, or any Carvin stuff for that matter outside of the US. Did you use the on-board compressor? If so, could it be that that provided the 'bounce' that you're seeking?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1366625842' post='2054914']
Surprised by this as we don't hear much about this amp, or any Carvin stuff for that matter outside of the US.
[/quote]

Unusually for a US company, Carvin spend the money on product rather than marketing, which is why they seem shockingly cheap.

[matybigfro]

Wow the Carvin sounds almost too good to be true, I'm gonna have to check out this amp

[brensabre79]

Thanks Mike. It was really good of you to do that.
I have ordered the Carvin now

Danny, yes the compressor was on, but only a little and I only saw the light trigger a couple of times in the set, but as I said earlier in the thread, I use a Markbass Compressore in line anyway. The 'feel' of the amp really came to the for with the 'Contour' control which i did back off slightly a few songs in.

Oli, I'm glad you approve I agree this goes some way to explain why they are so reasonably priced. The quality of the switches/knobs is not as premium as the Genz I must admit, in that they seem to be more proprietary rather than bespoke switchgear. But the whole package works really well to achieve what I'm after. I ran it flat most of the set, just boosting a little high mid towards the end.

The Carvin may not suit everyone though. It can't be driven into overdrive easily, it does not have the level of detail and clarity of the Genz in the high mids and its a bit larger too so it wouldn't fit in my bag - but it would still fit into a 2U short case with the wings that you can purchase. For me, it's exactly what I wanted from a lightweight amp.

If anyone is interested, the only place I could find them in the UK was bassgear.co.uk based in Twyford.

[matybigfro]

Which Genz head are you running brensabre, also what Barefaced cab are you runnning it with.

Up untill recently I've been weigh up between the Terror Bass, Streamliner or ? this may be the ?

Just need to find one to try out now

[brensabre79]

Maty
The Genz is a shuttle, and the Barefaced is a SuperTwelveT
Both the Streamliner and the Terror are warmer sounding than the Shuttle I think, the Terror can be a bit unwieldy if you want a clean sound, unless you change the preamp valve.

[Mykesbass]

Rehearsed it last night with the settings as you had left them (although active off) - never used it with gain up that high, it sounded fabulous Thanks for that!

[brensabre79]

Oh yeah drive that puppy

[JTUK]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1366035716' post='2047513']
.....
I suspect what I'm looking for comes from the huge Iron transformers in all-valve amps, I could be wrong. ........
[/quote]

I am quite convinced that the power stage is crucial
The DB amps sound like valve amps..IMO..and have that thump.. and they have a transformer stage that
is HEAVY.
The amps must be 60lbs... and the sound is just THERE..