That 'All-valve' bounce...

[brensabre79]

So I was playing my bass through an old old Sound City PA head the other day and, whilst less than ideal as a bass amp, it reminded me why i used to love all-valve heads. It's the 'bounce' you just don't get from a solid state amp, even with a valve pre, it's just not there. It's hard to describe. But every note just propels you to the next, you don't have to work so hard to push things along. Sure it can feel a bit baggy in the technical parts, but the thing feels ALIVE!

Now whilst I can't find any technical terms to describe this, those who know, will know what I mean..

So my question is, with all this wonderful lightweight technology we have these days. Is there an all-valve bass amp that puts out a decent wattage, but doesn't weight more than Big Daddy and Geoff Capes combined? I know I'm not going to get car stereo size, but something a little bit smaller and lighter than those amps of old? Something I can carry from the car without having to visit the chiropractor afterwards?

Failing that, is there something of a halfway house? maybe mosfet or something that still has a bit of that 'bounce' I'm after?

[charic]

A tube compressor might get you close, but I could be wrong

[Jack]

Nope. As with most things, you can get VERY VERY VERY close, but if you wants tubes, then you want tubes. I am more than happy to give up the last 1% of tube tone for my lighter, easier, cheaper and full-featured GK MB Fusion.

[brensabre79]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1366033707' post='2047478']
A tube compressor might get you close, but I could be wrong
[/quote]
Got one, it doesn't

[brensabre79]

[quote name='Jack' timestamp='1366034271' post='2047488']
Nope. As with most things, you can get VERY VERY VERY close, but if you wants tubes, then you want tubes. I am more than happy to give up the last 1% of tube tone for my lighter, easier, cheaper and full-featured GK MB Fusion.
[/quote]
I've heard good things about GK, but does it have the bounce?
I suspect what I'm looking for comes from the huge Iron transformers in all-valve amps, I could be wrong. I think Peavey make a light(er) weight all-valve head, but i've not seen or heard one. Any others?

[charic]

Weird.. I can't see one in your effects list

[brensabre79]

Markbass Compressore

[bertbass]

Here you go, http://www.peavey.com/products/index.cfm/series/813/Pro%E2%84%A2%20Series. Not cheap though.

[Bolo]

Check out the Peavey pro-vb3. 37 lbs @ 8×el34


Edit: you beat me to it

Edited April 15, 2013 by Bolo

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1366035716' post='2047513']I suspect what I'm looking for comes from the huge Iron transformers in all-valve amps[/quote]

That's certainly where the weight issue comes from you can't have one without the other & the jury's permanently out on how much a particular tranny affects the tone.
My 200 is heavy enough & manageable in a wheeled lightweight case, but the time I saw & heard a Hiwatt 400 being trialled atop two TE cabs it took two of us to haul the thing up there.
I've been reliably informed that my Hiwatt 200 will put out 350 watts at full tilt, but driving them at that & keeping them healthy would be a fair bit more expensive than running an all tranny head.

[stevie]

Valve bounce, eh? It's a term used in vehicle mechanics. From Wikipedia: "[b]Valve bounce[/b] is a related condition where the valve does not stay seated due to the combined effects of the valve's inertia and resonance of metallic valve springs that reduce the closing force, and allow the valve to re-open partially."

[Roland Rock]

My 100w Valve head is a one hand lift, and is loud enough for most pub/club gigging, although it's a close call and I've now got a 900w digi amp just in case.

This 'baggy bounce', would this be the 'sag'? This is where when the power supply of the amp can no longer meet the current requirements of the input in a linear fashion*
I love it, and have yet to experience a solid state/digital amp with the same feel.



*I plagiarised this from Google, I have no idea what it means

[Mr. Foxen]

Loud cab means don't need much power, and not much power means not much weight in your valve amp.

[voxpop]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1366046245' post='2047697']
Loud cab means don't need much power, and not much power means not much weight in your valve amp.
[/quote]

I gig with a 50 watt valve head with an efficient ( loud ) cab and it fills most pub / clubs with great tone.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1366044581' post='2047668']...Hiwatt 200 will put out 350 watts at full tilt, but driving them at that & keeping them healthy would be a fair bit more expensive than running an all tranny head.[/quote]

Most of the expense would be building repairs (shattered glass, major stonework, roof replacement...) and medical bills (stomach/bowel repair, re-fixing crushed bones, ear surgery...).

I tried this once...

[attachment=132599:Bunk.jpg]

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1366052186' post='2047815']
........ear surgery...)[/quote]
Quite - I'm fairly sure it's what took me over the edge from post-gig 2-day whistle to permanent tinnitus.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1366052186' post='2047815']I tried this once...[/quote]
More than I have - I've never actually had it at full on

[iiipopes]

I agree. When you want tubes, you just gotta have tubes. The only reasons I don't use tube amps for bass are cost, durability and weight. I have a Carvin PB300 solid state that has suffered Yeoman's duty continuously since 1993, and still going strong. Before that I had a venerable Ampeg SVT amp, and when after a couple of years I looked into the cost of re-tubing the entire head, it was going to cost almost as much as I paid for it used, and it always took another person to help me cart it and set it up.

[Mr. Foxen]

Good thing a complete retube is almost never necessary.

[discreet]

I believe [url="http://www.markbass.it/product_detail.php?id=183"]this[/url] might get you there, but I haven't tried one myself.

I seem to remember Grand Wazoo checking one out somewhere and saying that it does the all-valve thing, but reliably and with much less bulk. I know there are at least two people on here who have them, too. But I can't remember their names.

[0175westwood29]

you tried the orange bass terror?

andy

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1366060800' post='2047981']
you tried the orange bass terror?

andy
[/quote]

Doesn't do it. Good amp, but its very preamp sound.

[Pow_22]

Have to agree with Oli. They are probably the least valve-like sound ive had from a hybrid. The dual tube Ashdown's are more valve-like than the OTB sound wise but even then you arent close to a full on valve amp. My Hartke LH500 can be quite good with its brimar 12ax7 in with my flats loaded P - but again, nowts like a full valve amp

[brensabre79]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I think, as I suspected, I'm going to be looking for an all-valve amp. I will see if I can check out the Markbass and the Peavey. I must admit I'm somewhat skeptical about valve emulation technology - which various manufacturers have claimed over the years, none seem to have taken over the world though!

But I might just have a look for an old HiWatt or Sound City and put up with the weight.

I'm currently running a 600w Genz Benz, and often hit the limiter on a gig, so I'm wondering what sort of power I'd need with valves. An SVT is 300w, and I'm guessing would be perfectly adequate. My old Sound City amp was 50 watts and just not loud enough with a decent 4x10 - although it was 8 ohms.
Would a 120w do it? Or am I looking for 200 - 300w (which seem to be considerably more expensive!)? My current cab is 4 ohms.

Also, do guitar heads work OK with bass or do they have a HPF?

CHeers!

[Pow_22]

I had a SC120 and would say it wasnt loud enough for me. Tried through various combinations of cabs but against two guitards and a reasonably loud drummer it just turned to a fuzzy mush. Lovely tone at quieter volumes tho just didnt have the balls at louder levels. Ive always wanted to try a SC200

[Roland Rock]

My amp which is 96w RMS has been loud enough for the vast majority of (my) situations, but it's good to have the peace of mind that your amp can comfortably handle anything. In hindsight, I'd have bought a 200Watter