Can't get on with onboard preamps

[Guest MoJo]

I've just bought a superb Ibanez SR800 off fellow BC'er Kim (kdubb24) and it is fitted with a 3 band EQ active preamp with mid sweep. I took it to rehearsal last night and spent most of the evening twiddling the knobs trying to get a sound that was pleasing to my ear and sat well in the mix. I normally play a P-bass and love it's plug and play simplicity. I had the same knob-twiddling problem when I owned Stingrays. I've come to the conclusion that onboard electronics and I just don't get on.

I'm considering removing the preamp from the Ibanez and dropping in some DiMarzios because in every other way, playability, balance, weight, it's perfect.

[Happy Jack]

What rig do you play through?

I've found that active basses need very different treatment with most pedals, on the pre-amp section of a combo, and even when using wireless systems. Simply plug'n'play is rarely an option.

[BOD2]

I've found that active basses require a slightly different way of looking at things because, unlike a passive bass, they can BOOST as well as cut the EQ.

I'd always advise starting with the EQ set flat. On a passive bass that will be the tone controls full on but on an active bass that's usually the centre position of the controls, often indicated by a little detent "stop" that you feel as you turn the control from min to max. Where you feel a click on the control is usually where the control is set flat - neither cutting nor boosting the EQ.

Once you've got that position, setup the amp/FX for the best sound you can get without touching the onboard EQ.

With the amp and FX setup you're ready to play with the onboard EQ to make fine adjustments to the sound as required. The key is to keep the adjustments small, and if you get "lost" then go back to the flat EQ setting.

[guyl]

Don't throw in the towel just yet. In my experience it can take a bit of playing (and knob twiddling) before you eventually land on a tone that you're happy with. After that you'll be just plugging in and playing as before, but with flexibility - maybe you'll find two or three different sounds that work well for different songs or different venues ...

[guyl]

[quote name='BOD2' timestamp='1366289010' post='2050545']
I've found that active basses require a slightly different way of looking at things because, unlike a passive bass, they can BOOST as well as cut the EQ.

I'd always advise starting with the EQ set flat. On a passive bass that will be the tone controls full on but on an active bass that's usually the centre position of the controls, often indicated by a little detent "stop" that you feel as you turn the control from min to max. Where you feel a click on the control is usually where the control is set flat - neither cutting nor boosting the EQ.

Once you've got that position, setup the amp/FX for the best sound you can get without touching the onboard EQ.

With the amp and FX setup you're ready to play with the onboard EQ to make fine adjustments to the sound as required. The key is to keep the adjustments small, and if you get "lost" then go back to the flat EQ setting.
[/quote]

+1 - Sound advice

[Fat Rich]

Mid sweeps can really mess up your sound as a scooped mid tone is nice on it's own but usually doesn't cut through in a band situation.

I'd probably set everything flat to start off and just experiment with the pickup blend / volumes. Then experiment with a small amount of mid boost, only adjusting the mid frequency it boosts. I find that really changes the character of the sound dramatically and how it cuts through the mix.

Then add any bass and treble to taste afterwards.

[BigRedX]

I'm still not convinced by active basses, mainly because IMO most of them add nothing that you shouldn't be able to do already with the controls on your amp.

For some people there may be some convenience to having tone controls at your fingertips, but when I'm playing, I'm too busy playing to be fiddling with controls, and when I'm not it's just as easy to take a step or two back to my amp.

There are a couple of situations where active electronics can be of benefit - when they do something that the tone controls on the amp don't such as filter based controls like those fitted to Wal, ACG and some Alembics, or when the controls allow you to apply tone changes to each pickup individually. Otherwise I'll stick to the controls on my amp which do the same job but much better than the majority of circuits that can be crammed into the control cavity of a bass and powered by batteries.

[Dingus]

In addition to the very valid opinions and good advice already expressed , I would add that active basses and their usefulness also depends on the quality of the basic sound of the bass and the quality of the preamp . Some active basses that sound rubbish would sound rubbish if they were passive too because they don't have a good basic sound to begin with and a preamp ( especially a so-so sounding one ) won't change that fundamental shortcoming . Your Precision Bass has got a good basic tone , and that is all you really need . Conversely , a bass that doesn't have that good basic sound to start off with won't really be improved much by a preamp . It might be that making the Ibanez passive and changing the pickups will be throwing good money after bad and won't yield the satisfying sound you crave . The problem might not be that the bass doesn't sound good because it's active so much as that it doesn't sound that good full stop . If someone gave you a Wal Custom bass to take to your rehearsal you wouldn't have much problem finding a good sound with the active electronics , but that is because they are great sounding basses to begin with and then have a superbly designed preamp added to enhance and exploit that basic sound . Experiment with the Ibanez by all means and get more familiar with the controls ect. but I would be reticent to spend more money on the bass in an attempt to improve it when the chance of getting a good long - term outcome are not very good at all , and you would probably be decreasing the resale value of the bass in the process , thus losing money on both fronts .

Edited April 18, 2013 by Dingus

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 16, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[xilddx]

Interesting some of the neggy preamp views, and not much I agree with. I like the onboard controllability of a John East pre, I like the smoother sounds, the more produced sounds that I like anyway since I only use a POD and have no physical amp or cab in my signal chain.

As to basses having a passive 'voice' that gets mashed with a preamp, well, I don't really agree with that either, your 'voice' gets mashed by the amplifier and its preamp, and the power stage and the cab and the mic and the desk and the FOH PA. Much more important is the player's voice.

I suppose if you are happy with one or two tones and you play a certain way or you are a more traditional bassist, then maybe a pre is not for you, but bass has hugely evolved in certain genres so a pre can be very useful to achieve certain sounds.

[BigRedX]

Interesting that you say that Nige, since I run a very similar signal path to you, and for me the Pod has all the tone shaping I need. Most on-board tone controls are superfluous in this kind of set up.

[4 Strings]

I think the key is in small adjustments. Some bass preamps are very powerful and almost uncontrollable. I found this with a John East preamp with an 18V supply. Wildly varying tones are available but with such a variety you find some 34.5% type adjustments are required. (It's on a Jazz, a tone monster!)

Perhaps, like me, you can't be bothered with that sort of thing. Stingray 3 band controls are fine for me, bass up, treble off (unless I'm slapping - treble off then) and mid gets sometimes tweaked to bring me up in the mix.

[hubrad]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1366293511' post='2050632'] In addition to the very valid opinions and good advice already expressed , I would add that active basses and their usefulness also depends on the quality of the basic sound of the bass and the quality of the preamp . Some active basses that sound rubbish would sound rubbish if they were passive too because they don't have a good basic sound to begin with and a preamp ( especially a so-so sounding one ) won't change that fundamental shortcoming . Your Precision Bass has got a good basic tone , and that is all you really need . Conversely , a bass that doesn't have that good basic sound to start off with won't really be improved much by a preamp . It might be that making the Ibanez passive and changing the pickups will be throwing good money after bad and won't yield the satisfying sound you crave . The problem might not be that the bass doesn't sound good because it's active so much as that it doesn't sound that good full stop . If someone gave you a Wal Custom bass to take to your rehearsal you wouldn't have much problem finding a good sound with the active electronics , but that is because they are great sounding basses to begin with and then have a superbly designed preamp added to enhance and exploit that basic sound . Experiment with the Ibanez by all means and get more familiar with the controls ect. but I would be reticent to spend more money on the bass in an attempt to improve it when the chance of getting a good long - term outcome are not very good at all , and you would probably be decreasing the resale value of the bass in the process , thus losing money on both fronts . [/quote]

I like this post!

[hubrad]

WHen I got the Overwater Jazz 5 second hand it had a John East pre. A fantastic amount of control available, just too much for my purposes so I sold the pre on and installed a Vol,Blend,Bass,Treble setup with the Vol push-pull to switch the active in and out. I use mostly active setups (big fan of EMG pickups, too!) but tend to get my basic sound at the amp then tweak it at the bass if a pre is there.
How sit-on-the-fence is that for y'all?

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 16, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Guest bassman7755]

Set everything flat and treat it as passive-with-batteries .... as others have pointed out its usually easier to EQ with the amp and peronsonally I usually have that set as flat as possibly too. I'm a firm believer in primarily using pickup selection and mix to "EQ" a bass sound.

So my approach can be summarized as ...
Get the "tone" from pickup selection and mix
Use EQ to compensate for room acoustics (but only when judged out front - not where you are actually playing)

Edited April 18, 2013 by bassman7755

[JTUK]

Tone shaping on an onboard pre can be very harsh...
so that could mean +15db of bass...and +-15db of treble. That is enough to destroy any bass tones.
I am currently in a passive zone with my basses atm... but I get my sound out and enhance via the active
controls if I use them. I'd consider the extreme capability of most pre's as unusable..... read sh*te..!!!

[Roger2611]

I have recently gone over to the active bases, I started with the Precision lyte and added the Stingray soon after, I have found, especially in a gig situation that I can find the tone I need to cut through the mix out front and hear myself onstage, I have tried a set with both the Precision and the Jazz recently and have swapped back to the Stingray very quickly and now I have sorted the slight issue with hum from the actives affecting the Stageclix wireless system I cannot see me taking any of the passive basses out in the foreseeable future.

I tend to start with the bass eq flat and just make minor adjustments as and when needed

[Guest MoJo]

I've been following the advice on this thread and I'm starting to get the hang of it.....start flat, little adjustments

[chrismuzz]

I've always preferred passive. I set up my amp for the room, and use pedals to quickly switch between sounds. The only other adjustments I might want to make can be done by slightly rolling off the tone knob on the bass. I don't need anything more complex than that... Also, I never have to worry about batteries. Something I always used to forget about!

[icastle]

I just leave all of my active basses set flat and sort out a close approximation of what I want using the amp tone controls.

Any minor differences I may need (due to instrument changes for example) can be made with the minimum of fuss and stay pretty much static once set.

[steve-soar]

[i]I think it all depends on the condition of my strings. [/i]

[Guest MoJo]

Just found this thread on TB [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f38/ibanez-sr800-afr-vs-emg-vs-quarter-pound-pickups-890004/"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f38/ibanez-sr800-afr-vs-emg-vs-quarter-pound-pickups-890004/[/url]

Seems I'm not the only one trying to find the sound they want out of an SR800

[51m0n]

Any time you are boosting more than a few dB with an eq its going to start sounding a bit 'obvious' that something ahs been done to it that istn altogether natural. Especially with the kinds of eq in most basses.

I run active basses, I tend to keep them very flat on the bass, and use the amp for eq-ing live. Sometimes a song requires a very different pup selection (like lots of bridge) and then I may use the onboard pre to bring in a little more low end to compensate, but generally I dotn want to fiddle to much with all of that live, I just want a sound thats great and then alter it with how I play the thing more than anything else.

[Mark_Bass]

I think that less is more with bass EQ, i tend to keep mine flat (Ibanez SR705 & Warwick FNA) but if i have to boost any frqs i would normally only boost the mids myself unless my strings need a change then ill try and add more treble to compensate
For me, having a onboard EQ is great when I'm practicing at home as i can dial in whatever sound i want to hear at that time without having to get up and move to the amp, but whenever i gig i normally keep it flat and rely more on my amp otherwise i find that its easy to chase your own tail.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Mark_Bass