What all musicians realise

[MiltyG565]

When we all start out, on any instrument, presumably all of us had some inspiration from another musician, whether they be very famous (Flea of Red Hot Chili Peppers is my own personal inspiration) or maybe not famous, maybe just a friend or family member. When we start playing, we can't wait to start playing the songs our idols play, then we can't wait to have their sound, we can't wait to take what they have done, and make it our own, by improvising around the general idea, and that is how things go for must of us I assume, certainly me anyway.

But what I realised a few hours ago after a few while improvising is that I don't need to sound like Flea. I don't need to sound like John McVie. I don't need to sound like Lemmy. I don't need to sound like anybody. Can I make a "Flea" bassline? Probably, but why bother? The man is still alive. The man is still writing music, and even if he dies today, he's created a legacy, any of which I couldn't even hope to tap into whatever went on in his mind to lead him to create some of the great basslines that he has made in the past. But this is not what lead me to realise that I don't need to sound like anybody. i simply realised that I have the capacity to play things in my own distinct way, which is the real goal I suppose. I can listen to a beat, and let a groove form, and not have it sound like another persons groove. I've heard it said many times by musicians "It's important to sound like yourself", and I think I've finally reached the point where I realise the importance of it, and have the confidence to take it seriously, and continue to develop what I sound like.

And that is (presumably) what all musicians realise, sooner or later

[lojo]

I've gone full circle, been in a gigging originals band etc, but now to the dislike of alot of basschaters ,I just play covers, and get real pleasure out of trying to recreate exact lines and sounds as closely as I can.

Maybe one day I'll go all original and inventive again (at least IMO anyway)

Your right though, you shouldn't feel you have to do anything like anyone else (that doesn't rule out learning from them )

Edited April 20, 2013 by lojo

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1366441743' post='2052594']
I've gone full circle, been in a gigging originals band etc, but now to the dislike of alot of basschaters ,I just play covers, and get real pleasure out of trying to recreate exact lines and sounds as closely as I can.

Maybe one day I'll go all original and inventive again (at least IMO anyway)

Your right though, you shouldn't feel you have to do anything like anyone else (that doesn't rule out learning from them )
[/quote]

Learning peoples lines is the best (and arguably the only) way to learn.

[seashell]

I'd just like to sound like someone vaguely competent!

[Lynottfan]

Milty your are about spot on, For me it became all about trying to sound like me, not wanting to play like or sound like anybody else, when I had my last originals band together, an approach I still take, there are of course certain lines or melodies as such in various artists songs that have to be there, smooth operator without that solo played by Mr Denman not played properly is wrong, imho, but a lot of other stuff I play my own lines to, I am a musician not a photocopier after all. Nice point raised.

[Coilte]

Everyone (famous and iconic musicians included) starts out imitating someone else or their music. The trick is to utilise what you have learned from this, and make it your own. Oddly enough for myself, I never tried to imitate any ones tone, but always experimented, until I found what I liked.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1366447228' post='2052650']
Everyone (famous and iconic musicians included) starts out imitating someone else or their music. The trick is to utilise what you have learned from this, and make it your own.
[/quote]

Bingo.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366423434' post='2052551']
... I've heard it said many times by musicians "It's important to sound like yourself", and I think I've finally reached the point where I realise the importance of it, and have the confidence to take it seriously, and continue to develop what I sound like.

And that is (presumably) what all musicians realise, sooner or later
[/quote]
I don't see why it's so important to sound like yourself - unless you live in a me me me kind of individualistic egoistic society and subscribe to those values.

[Coilte]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1366447758' post='2052661']
I don't see why it's so important to sound like yourself - unless you live in a me me me kind of individualistic egoistic society and subscribe to those values.
[/quote]

I'd say the main reason why most people take up music is to be able to express themselves through it. I say "most" because there are those who are content to simply imitate. There is nothing wrong here, if that is what they are happy doing. For others, what better way to express yourself, then in your own "voice" ?

Edited April 20, 2013 by Coilte

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1366447758' post='2052661']
I don't see why it's so important to sound like yourself - unless you live in a me me me kind of individualistic egoistic society and subscribe to those values.
[/quote]

What's the point in having an artistic outlet and sounding like somebody else? Maybe Van Gogh could have painted like Da Vinci, but what would have been the point? It certainly doesn't hold as much merit as being able to express your thoughts and feelings in your own thing. It's not about being self absorbed, it's about playing like yourself.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1366448343' post='2052676']
I'd say the main reason why most people take up music is to be able to express themselves through it.
[/quote]
Maybe, but that's not my experience of myself or of most other musicians I've played with. And when they did go on about 'expressing themselves' it was sometimes because they couldn't play very well and it was being used as an excuse for not doing what was actually needed thus tempting one to say stop [s]w***ing[/s] expressing yourself and play the song - and this applies to so-called original material as much as any so-called cover.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1366448343' post='2052676']
I say "most" because there are those who are content to simply imitate. There is nothing wrong here, if that is what they are happy doing. For others, what better way to express yourself, then in your own "voice" ?
[/quote]
Anyone can simply express themselves and they may well be content to do so. But there may be something wrong here - it may be very poor. But if they are happy doing it, then what could be better, at least they have their own 'voice' - whatever that is.

Anyway, I've got nothing against people expressing themselves as such. However, I don't accept that's it's the be all and end all.

[lojo]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366449566' post='2052694']
What's the point in having an artistic outlet and sounding like somebody else? Maybe Van Gogh could have painted like Da Vinci, but what would have been the point? It certainly doesn't hold as much merit as being able to express your thoughts and feelings in your own thing. It's not about being self absorbed, it's about playing like yourself.
[/quote]

Not sure how many bass players there are, have been, or will be, but I'm pretty sure there is not enough variation for everyone to have a distinguishable individual feel and tone.

Whilst I have enjoyed creating songs and lines and gigging them, and I'm not saying it's not about art or expression, but bass playing to me is about being solid, in timing and dynamics, supporting, driving the song when needed.

Edited April 20, 2013 by lojo

[White Cloud]

In keeping with everything in life, if you continually try to be something that you are not you will be unsuccessful....or ultimately unhappy.

[Pinball]

Interesting thoughts
I was tempted to say that "I have always done my own thing" but then I suddenly remembered that is plainly not true. I'm playing lead guitar again and although I wasn't rich I remember trading in all my kit for a brand new USA Strat as I loved Clapton and Hendrix. What a waste of time because 1. I wasn't that good and 2. it wasn't my sound or style so it sat in it's case for the next 20 years.
so...
It all depends what floats your boat. If you enjoy doing covers then obviously you need to copy and its a useful way to hone your technique
but......
if you just want to have fun and/or the creative type it can be both surprising and rewarding not to be restrained by someone else's style or sound.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1366450132' post='2052702']
Not sure how many bass players there are, have been, or will be, but I'm pretty sure there is no enough variation for everyone to have a distinguishable individual feel and tone.

Whilst I have enjoyed creating songs and lines and gigging them, and I'm not saying it's not about art or expression, but bass playing to me is about being solid, in timing and dynamic, supporting, driving the song when needed.
[/quote]

No 2 people ever think the same thing. They might have the general idea, but the way they frame that idea and spin it is different from person to person. And that is very much why no 2 bass players ever will sound the same. I'll never hear what Flea hears, and I'll never hear what any of you hear. I can only hear what I hear, so that is what I will play.


[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1366450273' post='2052703']
In keeping with everything in life, if you continually try to be something that you are not you will be unsuccessful....or ultimately unhappy.
[/quote]

Yes, quite true.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1366449951' post='2052696']
Maybe, but that's not my experience of myself or of most other musicians I've played with. And when they did go on about 'expressing themselves' it was sometimes because they couldn't play very well and it was being used as an excuse for not doing what was actually needed thus tempting one to say stop [s]w***ing[/s] expressing yourself and play the song - and this applies to so-called original material as much as any so-called cover.


Anyone can simply express themselves and they may well be content to do so. But there may be something wrong here - it may be very poor. But if they are happy doing it, then what could be better, at least they have their own 'voice' - whatever that is.

Anyway, I've got nothing against people expressing themselves as such. However, I don't accept that's it's the be all and end all.
[/quote]

Ok, well I never claimed it really was the be all and end all. I did say that I had the realisation and confidence in my ability now to play what I want to play, and not try and sound like somebody else, and I imagine that is something a lot of bassists on here will have had, or will have at some point.

If you are playing with somebody and you don't like the way they are expressing themselves, you are playing with the wrong people!

[lojo]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366450413' post='2052706']

No 2 people ever think the same thing. They might have the general idea, but the way they frame that idea and spin it is different from person to person. And that is very much why no 2 bass players ever will sound the same. I'll never hear what Flea hears, and I'll never hear what any of you hear. I can only hear what I hear, so that is what I will play.

[/quote]

I totally agree with you on that, I'm just saying that if you try to listen for a gap in bass playing that has never been done before, you'll struggle to hear one, as your post suggests , your own sound will happen naturally, you can't force it, therefore to me there is no point in trying to set yourself apart from others, it will happen anyway, either with good or bad results

Edited April 20, 2013 by lojo

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366449566' post='2052694']
What's the point in having an artistic outlet and sounding like somebody else?
[/quote]
1 It sounds good
2 You'll learn from it
3 Entertainment
4 etc.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366449566' post='2052694']
Maybe Van Gogh could have painted like Da Vinci, but what would have been the point?
[/quote]
I would have liked his work much more.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366449566' post='2052694']
It certainly doesn't hold as much merit as being able to express your thoughts and feelings in your own thing. It's not about being self absorbed, it's about playing like yourself.
[/quote]
Nothing ever holds merit merely and only because someone expressed it 'in their own thing'.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1366450758' post='2052711']
I totally agree with you on that, I'm just saying that if you try to listen for a gap in bass playing that has never been done before, you'll struggle to hear one, as your post suggests , your own sound will happen naturally, you can't force it, therefore to me there is no point in trying to set yourself apart from others .
[/quote]

There's no point to art, other than itself.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366450413' post='2052706']
No 2 people ever think the same thing.
[/quote]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1366450758' post='2052711']
I totally agree with you on that.
[/quote]

So, that theory is disproved neatly and quickly.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1366450883' post='2052713']
1 It sounds good
2 You'll learn from it
3 Entertainment
4 etc.
[/quote]

I've learned from it, and been entertained, and now i'm doing more of my own thing.



[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1366450883' post='2052713']
I would have liked his work much more.
[/quote]

But I'll bet he didn't paint for you. Especially since...

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366450899' post='2052714']
There's no point to art, other than itself.
[/quote]


[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1366450883' post='2052713']
Nothing ever holds merit merely and only because someone expressed it 'in their own thing'.
[/quote]

Oh, go back to bed and come back when you're in a better mood.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366450899' post='2052714']
There's no point to art, other than itself.
[/quote]
I can't agree with this either.

Anyway, I'm out of here before Inti comes back to the art versus entertainment debate.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1366450974' post='2052718']
So, that theory is disproved neatly and quickly.
[/quote]

Why are you turning this into an argument? Honestly, there's no need. Discussion, yes, argument, no.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366451093' post='2052720']

Oh, go back to bed and come back when you're in a better mood.
[/quote]
Oh dear.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366451145' post='2052723']
Why are you turning this into an argument? Honestly, there's no need. Discussion, yes, argument, no.
[/quote]
Of course it's an argument, people disagree and say why, that's an argument. If you don't want disagreement than best not to express yourself in the first place. Or perhaps you expect everyone just to copy what you have said.

Edited April 20, 2013 by EssentialTension