What all musicians realise

[lojo]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1366450974' post='2052718']




So, that theory is disproved neatly and quickly.
[/quote]

[Jellyfish]

I thought this was going to be a thread about how 'better' gear really doesn't make you any better. But you have a point as well...

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Jellyfish' timestamp='1366451596' post='2052734']
I thought this was going to be a thread about how 'better' gear really doesn't make you any better. But you have a point as well...
[/quote]

That's a good point to, but fairly obvious, wouldn't you think?

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1366450974' post='2052718']




So, that theory is disproved neatly and quickly.
[/quote]

:-D

[Damonjames]

Much the same as Frankenstein's monster was created from various body parts and became his own master, so too you can build your own sound. Don't dismiss what your heroes have done, study them closely and you may find that the thing you really like about them is one particular part of their playing style. Use this and morph it with all your favourite players and create your sound that way.

[Monckyman]

All I have to say is Yoko Ono.

[Coilte]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1366447758' post='2052661']
I don't see why it's so important to sound like yourself - unless you live in a me me me kind of individualistic egoistic society and subscribe to those values.

[/quote]
[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1366449951' post='2052696']


However, I don't accept that's it's the be all and end all.
[/quote]


I don't think anyone claimed it to be the be all and end all. People are entitled to add to, take from or copy music as they so wish (not talking copyright here , but you know what I mean).


As for myself, I was addressing your above quote where you seem to make the generalisation that anyone who chooses to go the "self expression" route, is somehow a selfish egotist.

[Linus27]

I started for a different reason. I was 15 and I was watching Live Aid. U2 came on and Adam Clayton was strutting around stage, not giving a crap about anything but looking super cool with a beard and black Dr Martin boots. I didn't know it was U2 at the time but this guy just looked cool. For me, in the 80's this was just symbolic and I just wanted to look as cool as Adam. Over the next two years I started to listen to more music (heavily into Madonna) but still had no drive to play bass. I then started college in 87 and a friend had a bass. I had managed to get a guitar which I had borrowed but had no interest in playing as I could not make the hand shapes for chords so it just sat in my room collecting dust. I liked the look of my friends bass as it had black strings and looked chunky and my friend always wanted to own a guitar so we swapped. We then bashed about making some noise but we had no idea what we were doing as neither of us could play. My friend gave up but for the next two years, I played along to every song I could find. My two sisters had a massive record collection but it was all eighties stuff like Duran Duran, The Police, Depeche Mode, Kagagoogoo, Spandau Ballet, Talk Talk, Inxs, A-ha etc but rather than know who these bands were or the bass players, it was just an excuse to play along with my bass. Skip to 97 and a few bands later, I was fortunate enough to get a record deal and had negotiated some new gear so I went to the Bass Centre in Wapping to spend my £5k. I bought my dream bass, a Stingray which to this day, I have no idea why it was my dream bass as the bands I was listening to (Pearl Jam and U2) were not using them but I think it was because John Giblin used one when he was in Simple Minds and I liked the look of it I also bought a 77 Precision which was my main gigging bass and 72 Telebass as it looked like a nice bass. I also bought the top of the range Hartke 900w rig with the alluminium 4 x 10 and 1 x 15 cabs on the back of Sting saying they were good I remember the day like it was yesterday when all my gear turned up at the record company rehearsal studio. I was so excited. I set everything up and oh my god, my dream bass, the Stingray sounded utter gash. I was totally gutted and nearly in tears. It sounded thin, twangy with no bottom end or balls. Well, if I was niave to basses, do you think I had any idea on how to set up a 900w Harke bass rig The Precision I must say sounded awsome with that famous boosted lows and high sweep settings and so I ended up using that live. I started to record my first album and I had started to notice different bass tones and talk to the producer about what I wanted although the only tone I liked was the Precision tone of Garry Gary Bears from Inxs on the Inxs album, The Swing and Listen Like Thieves. I didn't even realise that the tone of a fretless bass (Pino's tone and Paul Webb of Talk Talk) was done on a fretless bass despite recording one of the tracks on an acoustic fretless. Yep, still oblivious at that point Now skip to around mid to late 2000 and since joining basschat, my eyes have been very firmly opened. I have discovered things like flats, Motown, the Warwick tone, the difference between a Jazz and a Precision and what it was that I liked about the original Precision tone and how to achieve that Jaco tone on a Jazz bass. More importantly, how to make my Stingray sound great and what a bass, mid and treble dial does where as before it was full volume and full tone I've never had a bad tone as thankfully I have always kept it simple and tried to get that large punky tone with a bit of bottom end that you get from a Precision. If I knew back then what I know now then boy, things would had been different for sure but I am happy that I was niave or oblivious to so many things back then. I've also never tried to copy a certain bass player but probably unconciously been a sponge when playing along to all my sisters records, picking up a mix of great playing styles. There would had been bands like Duran Duran, Kagagoogoo, Culture Club, The Police, Level 42, Inxs, Japan, Talk Talk, Paul Young, Tears For fears so bands all with great bass players. So, I blame my naivety when I first started to play bass on basschat for not being around in the 80's and 90's to help me out Anyway, here is a picture of my old setup whilst recording some B-sides. You can see I made such an effort with the graphic EQ [URL=http://s85.photobucket.com/user/Linus27uk/media/Picture001.jpg.html][IMG]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k46/Linus27uk/Picture001.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Edited April 20, 2013 by Linus27

[solo4652]

Some sweeping generalisations being made by the OP that I would like to comment on because over the past few weeks I've been thinking hard about what I would like to get from playing music:

"When we all start out, on any instrument, presumably all of us had some inspiration from another musician... " [color=#0000CD] Not in my case. I started to play bass aged 50 because I wanted to play a musical instrument. At that point I could not have named one bass player.[/color]


"When we start playing, we can't wait to start playing the songs our idols play, then we can't wait to have their sound, we can't wait to take what they have done, and make it our own, by improvising around the general idea, and that is how things go for must of us I assume, certainly me anyway." [color=#0000CD]Not in my case. I had, indeed I [i]have[/i], no real desire to "make things my own". I play in covers bands and I've seen quite a few examples of people trying to "make things their own" and wrecking a perfectly good song in the process.[/color]

"...i simply realised that I have the capacity to play things in my own distinct way, which is the real goal I suppose." [color=#0000FF] Well, it's [i]a[/i] goal, certainly. However, there are other goals and it's not my primary goal with my bass playing[/color]


[color=#000000]"I've heard it said many times by musicians "It's important to sound like yourself"...[/color][color=#0000FF] " Well, again, that's one thing that some people may be aiming for. Good for them. However, in my case, I personally don't think it's important to sound like myself (whatever that "sound" may be). Indeed, for me, it's more important to nail a song, be tight and well-rehearsed and then get out there and enjoy the gig.[/color]

And that is (presumably) what all musicians realise, sooner or later[color=#0000FF] Not necessarily. In my case, I have come to realise that the pleasure I get from playing music often comes from without - it largely comes from the audience. Realising that I don't have to develop my own style has enabled me to stop feeling "guilty" about playing other people's basslines. For me, a "musician" is simply somebody who plays music - whether it be their own or somebody else's.[/color]

Interesting thread!

Steve

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1366456860' post='2052811']
... Anyway, here is a picture of my old setup whilst recording some B-sides. You can see I made such an effort with the graphic EQ
[/quote]

That EQ setting is just what is needed. You've notched out some problem frequencies and bumped up a couple that were a bit weak.

When I see massive EQ cuts ands boosts, it suggests that there's a problem in the signal chain...

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366423434' post='2052551'] I've heard it said many times by musicians "It's important to sound like yourself"...
And that is (presumably) what all musicians realise, sooner or later
[/quote]

Evidently not [i]all [/i]musicians subscribe to this view, though I cannot understand why it should be a sore point for some of us.

For myself, I try to do both. Sometimes I might try to knock out a line that incorporates the nuances of another player, just to try to get inside what they're doing.

Another time, I might try to switch off the 'influences' and let the mind-expanding cosmic love vibes do their thing. Trouble is, I'm still at the stage where [i]either [/i]approach requires a conscious decision before deployment.

When I can either pastiche or originate without making a deliberate effort, I might feel I've moved up another rung on the endless ladder.

[solo4652]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1366446522' post='2052643']
I'd just like to sound like someone vaguely competent!
[/quote]


Seashell has summarised what I was drivelling on about neatly and succinctly.

[Linus27]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1366462723' post='2052891']
That EQ setting is just what is needed. You've notched out some problem frequencies and bumped up a couple that were a bit weak.

When I see massive EQ cuts ands boosts, it suggests that there's a problem in the signal chain...
[/quote]

Excellent, then at least my ears were telling me the right thing to do even if I didn't actually know what I was doing

[Jellyfish]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1366451819' post='2052738']
That's a good point to, but fairly obvious, wouldn't you think?
[/quote]

To many people, yes. But then there's many sides to the argument, supported by the fact that most professionals use expensive instruments!

[Roger2611]

My two biggest influences have got to be Pino and Bruce Foxton, and whilst the mix of both would probably be a bast**d child both continue to influence what and how I both play and create basslines, I can probably play most of what Foxton plays but I still lack the style he delivers, I can't (sadly) nail anything that Pino plays and probably never will, just because he is simply in a different world to me!

My point is....whilst the fact I can imitate Bruce and, to a point understand what he brings to the table....this inspires me to develop that understanding further and push my boundries, and whilst Pino still frustrates the hell out of me but...and a big but, I am going to get to a point where I can nail the No Parlez and Gary Numan era basslines and then I can bring a mix of both to my table...so if I understand the OP correctly...I do want to sound like my heros and when I can I will probably be bringing my own sounds to the table and when I do I doubt it will sound anything like either Bruce or Pino to anybody else but I will know where what got me to that position.

[Lozz196]

I agree, best to sound like yourself. I sound like me. My main faves on bass are Bruce Foxton, JJ Burnell, and Duff McKagan, and someone listening to me play would probably hear the Foxton influence by the playing, but not the tone. No matter how trebly an amp, my style makes it sound deep, bassy, and in the pocket with the drums, present but not so`s you`d notice. Yet pass my bass to the other bassist in my band, and instantly it`s twangy and high up in the mix.

[paul_5]

I've always sounded like me. Geddy Lee has always copied my playing though, even before I played bass he was stealing the lines from inside my head. Bastard.

[Myke]

I'm at the stage where I don't want to imitate someone elses sound but I don't quite have 'me' nailed down yet.

Actually just thinking.. how does someone know when they've found their sound? Is it the one you go back to, like your very own default?


[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1366500508' post='2053351']
I've always sounded like me. Geddy Lee has always copied my playing though, even before I played bass he was stealing the lines from inside my head. Bastard.
[/quote]

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1366501788' post='2053372']
I'm at the stage where I don't want to imitate someone elses sound but I don't quite have 'me' nailed down yet.

Actually just thinking.. how does someone know when they've found their sound? Is it the one you go back to, like your very own default?





[/quote]

Just whatever you play, that's you.

[seashell]

Mine is the sound of a curious chimp who has just found some old piano wire on a rubbish dump.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Myke' timestamp='1366501788' post='2053372']
... how does someone know when they've found their sound?
[/quote]
It's when you stop worrying about 'my sound' (or anyone else's) and they get on with playing the music.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1366535785' post='2053545']
It's when you stop worrying about 'my sound' (or anyone else's) and they get on with playing the music.
[/quote]

Yeah, just get on with it. Don't worry about what notes you're playing, they're all the same, right?

[Highfox]

I think we all nick bit's and pieces from the music we hear around us. It's very hard and requires a fair bit of talent to be totally original.
Having an idol or an influence to look upto is not at all bad in my book, take what you can from them and make it your own.
Playing music is wonderful and an ever learning path to the soul ...

Edited April 22, 2013 by Highfox

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Highfox' timestamp='1366628155' post='2054968']
I think we all nick bit's and pieces from the music we hear around us. It's very hard and requires a fair bit of talent to be totally original.
Having an idol or an influence to look upto is not at all bad in my book, take what you can from them and make it your own.
Playing music is wonderful and an ever learning path to the soul ...
[/quote]

Yup, I agree, but my point was, which some people missed I think (not you) was that it's not about having your sound, but sounding like yourself. Playing what you want, in the way that you want, and not being hung up about sounding like this person or that person.

[Lynottfan]

I reached this point with my playing and sound, and I went about it in the following way. I love Phil Lynott and Bernard Edwards, in my head I wanted a sound that was the a mix of the "rock" of Phil with the "fat bass" of Bernard. Gear for me did have an influence on sound, I am lucky that I know a few people with studios and good friends with a local shop. I tried a range of basses, the Stingray was the overall best for me, I tried a range of amps (I had been a Trace man pretty much all the way up to here) and the EBS gear blew me away.

NOW the bit that got interesting for me was shaping all this, as I am 90% of the time a pick player, but one of my pet hates with pick is not being able to hear the the actual note definition, just getting pick clank, also I have the same pet hate with finger style when all you can hear is the "rattle" of metal strings on wood but no actual note tone to the sound , so playing with the HD350 head controls and the Stingray and rehearsing/praccy at various volume levels I got what I wanted, funky/punky groovy Lizzy!

It did take a couple of years to reach this point, but when I got the "Nice bass sound mate" or " thats a bit of a different thing you got going on there.." comments which I did and do, and yes it does make you a bit big headed for a few seconds, but, for me, job done. I got my sound I like it others seem to as well, it may not be to everyones taste but I stand by it and I know, when I have my gear and I set up, I am not hung up on sounding like anyone as my sound lets me sound how I want.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Lynottfan