RADICAL RETHINK

[bassbluestew]

Ok guys........I need some feedback, so, get your thinking caps on here.

I've always been a kinda old school sound sorta guy - think Motown and your there - but I have always admired more modern sounding players and their nice sounds so I've decided to have a radical rethink gear wise to enable me to do this.

Firstly, the sound(s) I am after ( there are two main types of sound ) are
1. a piano like tone, sounds nice and bassy in the mix, but on it's own has a lot of top end to help it cut through.
2. a kinda "Chic" type sound. Very modern, I would describe this as middley but I could be wrong. Anyway, everyone knows that sound. Punchy and tight.

My current sound, although nice and round, is very dated, and I'd really like to get more modern.

Anyway onto my current gear -

Basses, all 5'ers
1 StingRay - ash body / maple neck
2. G&L L2500 as above ( with TI Jazz Flats natch, probably the most comfortable bass I've ever played )
3. EBMM Bongo HS Ltd Ed - Envy Green, v. nice indeed.
4. Ibanez elctro-acoustiic - for home use only, but sounds amazing through our PA.

Amps
1. Trace Series 6 AH200
2. Matching 2x10 cab and 1x15 cab
3. Basson B210b

Odds'n'Sods - which can be sold to help fund new gear
Behringer rack tuner
Crate Power Block


Basically I want to downsize gearwise, also 2 good quality basses is plenty so one or more can go. I think I'd like to keep the StingRay, the others could go. The Trace rig can go too.

I was looking at the new SWR RedHead, it's sounds great on the ads I've seen on YouTube etc, and although its heavy it's on wheels. It's 400 watts on it's own or 600 with a 4ohm ext cab ( e.g. the Basson B210b ??? ) for BIG gigs. It has all the functions I'd need - the built in rack space is nice, as is the all new VALVE D.I. ( I am always through the PA to a greater or lesser degree.) I've played through a Super RedHead in a large marquee and it sounded surprisingly big on stage, I loved the sound, but my only concern was I managed to get it to fart out on my low B when digging in a bit,however the new RedHeads have vastly upgraded drivers so that should help.
I'd also consider the Eden Metro which I've never played through, but has a solid reputation. Might be a bit out of my budget new, and I do THINK I'd like a new amp.

Basswise I'd like something more modern too, was thinking about the Pedulla Rapture - a nice big open ringy sound. I'd like something with a bit of a reputation behind it, as although I don't want to be changing too often I want to maintain resale value. There have been some nice Sei Jazzes up for sale on BC recently, and I don't think they've sold, so if I can get my stuff sold at a good price then those might be an option.

So ideally I'd like to keep the StingRay, have an SWR RedHead and a.n.other bass. Nice and simple. I've discovered the joys of the Digitech Bass Synth Wah and am enjoying implementing that into the set. Live, I have been using a Big Dots tuner, very fast and easy to see in the dark. But that's it pedal wise.

I reckon I can get a new RedHead for around £1100, which I reckon I should EASILY cover from the sale of the Trace rig ( £600 ?? ish ) and a bass (£750-800ish ) leaving a couple of hundred quid and another bass to fund the newbie bass. Oh and there's the odds and sods too, maybe £120 amongst them ?? )

So there we have it, any ideas ?? You lot know far more about gear than I do. Although I'd like the amp to be new, I'm not worried about the bass being new, as long as it's not abused. I can manage that myself.

So get some replies flowing please,
I look forward to some weird,wonderful and inspiring ideas.

Stewart

[BOD2]

Devils advocate.....

Buy a rackmount Bass POD XT.

Buy a good powerful personal stage monitor (or go for a simple in-ear system).

Spend the rest on basses.

Since you always go through the PA do you really need a big stage amp ?


Of course it's a personal choice at the end of the day.

[bassbluestew]

[quote name='BOD2' post='209012' date='May 29 2008, 04:38 PM']Devils advocate.....

Buy a rackmount Bass POD XT.

Buy a good powerful personal stage monitor (or go for a simple in-ear system).

Spend the rest on basses.

Since you always go through the PA do you really need a big stage amp ?


Of course it's a personal choice at the end of the day.[/quote]


Hi BOD2, thanks for the quick reply.

I have tried the Bass Pod XT Pro, and just couldn't get my simple head round it. It now resides at Ped Towers. A good personal stage monitor.......thats kinda what I thought a smallish combo. I do still like to feel a little air behind me, which is why I haven't considered in ears. We use them in the band for the two main vocalists and they don't seem overly impressed.

As you say it IS purely personal choice, and I do thank you for being the first to get involved.

Moochas Grassyass,
Stewart

[BOD2]

[quote name='bassbluestew' post='209014' date='May 29 2008, 04:45 PM']Hi BOD2, thanks for the quick reply.

I have tried the Bass Pod XT Pro, and just couldn't get my simple head round it. It now resides at Ped Towers. A good personal stage monitor.......thats kinda what I thought a smallish combo. I do still like to feel a little air behind me, which is why I haven't considered in ears. We use them in the band for the two main vocalists and they don't seem overly impressed.

As you say it IS purely personal choice, and I do thank you for being the first to get involved.

Moochas Grassyass,
Stewart[/quote]


Fair comment. A Bass POD is not everyone's cup of tea - just like any other "amp" really. Some like one brand others like another brand.

Good luck with your search !

[bassbluestew]

Thanks BOD2...............hope I didn't come over all negative on the Pod front, its just way to complicated for me. I'd love to be able to master it, I know Ped just LOVES his to bits.

C'mon guys, help a poor soul out here........................

[The Funk]

I'd say the basses aren't the problem. If you like the Chic sound, the Stingray, G&L and Bongo should all do the trick.

Update the amp. An Eden head is not a bad way to go. Epifani cabs are also not a bad way to go. Expensive though! The Bass Pod does have an Eden-type setting. In fact, you could get a Line 6 Bass Amp instead of a Pod - I think they have most (or some) of the Pod technology in their amps. Would be a lot cheaper than an Eden head and an Epifani cab.

EDIT: [url="http://line6.com/lowdownld150/"]http://line6.com/lowdownld150/[/url]

Edited May 29, 2008 by The Funk

[The Burpster]

My tone is way off the other end of teh spectrum to yours but, I've learnt a lot on the way....

Bass wise I agree the 'Ray and G&L are still up there. Maybe (I dont know your regime) try swapping strings more regularly. To keep that brite 'hi fi' sound yo've gotta change 'em often. Ditch the flats and get into some real brite roundwounds.

Amp wise.... Those that own one of these babies....

[url="http://www.markbass.it/products.php?lingua=en&cat=3&vedi=75"]http://www.markbass.it/products.php?lingua...t=3&vedi=75[/url]

reckon its a real 'hi-fi' sound... Maybe what your after...

just my thoughts.

[Mokl]

Sounds as though you should already be able to get a "Chic" type of tone with your Stingray. But, fwiw, the other tone you are looking for sounds almost exactly how I would describe the tone of my Zon Sonus. It has a real warmth and clarity, amazing piano-y sustain and plenty of trebley sizzle if you want it. The graphite neck possibly has something to do with it, although I have owned other graphite necked basses (Modulus and Status), and this sounds more organic somehow. The mid-range on mine is switchable on the preamp, enabling scooped to more up-front voicings. You'd possibly pick up a good used one like mine for just under a grand, the only problem with Zons being that they don't seem to come up that often over here.

[Marcus]

Bass - wise......

I think there is a lot to say for adding Sadowsky Jazz to your bass arsenal

[Lfalex v1.1]

I know I'm the third to say it, but don't ditch any of the basses!

Try re-stringing the Bongo/Ray/G&L with some of the following strings;

Elixirs

D'Addario XL or Chromes

DR Hi-Beams or Fat Beams

Try gauges around medium/hybrid- 45,65,80,100,120 or thereabouts.
Flatten / defeat the Trace's EQ and start over.
You might be surprised.

I do like the SWR RedHead, though.

[bassbluestew]

Some great comments here already...............

I plead guilty to being very lax in changing strings, and I have been tempted to try Elixirs but they are expensive. I need to do some serious string research methinks.

With regards to amps, I think I need to get something a little smaller than the Trace rig, so I'll will be selling that, and unfortunately will also be shifting one of the basses to help fund the amp.

But the first thing I'll be doing is whacking some new strings on at least one of my basses, and I'll do that this weekend ( if either of the Sound Controls in Glasgow are still open )

Interestingly no-one has encouraged me to go for one of the Sei's that are for sale..................in my ignorance I'd have thought they would have been right up my sonic street.

thanks again guys'n'gals, and please keep 'em coming.
S

[chris_b]

As always, my advice is, keep the Stingray and get a 5 string Lakland. For the noise, I'd get a 500 watt head and a 4x10 cab or, if you want a modular rig, a 2x10 and a 1x15. Keep your eye on the BC ads. A lot of good gear comes up for sale here.

[Bernmeister]

Hi Stewart,

As everybody else has more or less mentioned, the basses that you already own
are more than capable of getting the sounds that you are trying to create.

Also as already mentioned you may need to change strings to roundwound or even nickels
would do the job. Its just a question of possibly re-equing you're amp & your bass settings.

To be honest the trace rig is well capable of getting the sounds you require.

But the SWR RedHead new or used ( there's some bargains to be found used if you can find one)
like i did will certainly get the sounds your after & will be better with an additional 2x10 to
cope with the low "B".

Hope this helps

[bass_ferret]

Nothing wrong with your basses. I would try the obvious alternatives to the Redhead, the Eden Metro and EBS NeoGorm.

[bassbluestew]

Metro combo is beginning to look good.............

[Rumble]

... How's your back? If it's good and you want to keep it that way don't try carrying the Metro! Stick some heavyduty wheels on it or go modular.

I know what you mean about the Redhead not handling the low B. I added an Eden 15" to mine which helped, but I still ended up changing it for and Eden head and Aguilar cabs (soon to be Bergantino!).

I'd also agree with chris-b re the Lakland 5. I have a 55-02 with Barts in and it has a very hi-fi mid and upper range. Lower end probably slightly less hi-fi than the Stingray. Whatever you use, stick some DR Hi-Beams on it and you're away.....hi-fi heaven!

[bass_ferret]

The EBS uses neo speakers as the name suggests so it will be a lot lighter (and it comes with wheels). It also comes in 2x10, 2x12 and 1x15 configurations whilst the Eden and SWR only come in 2x10 IIRC

[silverfoxnik]

Hi Stewart,

The basses you've had suggested are pretty good as are the ones you have already. I'd just add to the other comments that both the tones you describe in your OP as being the ones you want to achieve, I can get easily out of my Fender Roscoe Beck 5 and there happens to be one of those for sale at the moment here on Basschat.

The Sei basses for sale here both have Bartolini p/ups I think and though they are a popular choice of p/up, maybe they won't be your cup of tea?
A couple of other bass suggestions for you to think about.. I had an MTD bass a while back and that was pretty good (think there's a nice one on Ebay at the moment) and also, what about a Lakland DJ5 ?

On the amp front, I don't know much about SWR heads but I've just bought 2 SWR cabs and they're pretty impressive!

Seems like you're facing what Buddhism calls 'the mire of options'

Good luck with it all!

Nik

[Gunsfreddy2003]

Has anyone used the Elixir strings?

I know they are supposed to last a lot longer due to the coating etc but the only bass player that I know to have used them advised that they felt weird and had a very strange tone and would never use them again no matter how long they lasted!

I love the sound of a freshly strung bass but it always has a cost to do this for every gig - usually more than I get paid! Would be keen to try them if others rate them but don't really want to waste £40!



[quote name='bassbluestew' post='209438' date='May 30 2008, 10:11 AM']Some great comments here already...............

I plead guilty to being very lax in changing strings, and I have been tempted to try Elixirs but they are expensive. I need to do some serious string research methinks.

With regards to amps, I think I need to get something a little smaller than the Trace rig, so I'll will be selling that, and unfortunately will also be shifting one of the basses to help fund the amp.

But the first thing I'll be doing is whacking some new strings on at least one of my basses, and I'll do that this weekend ( if either of the Sound Controls in Glasgow are still open )

Interestingly no-one has encouraged me to go for one of the Sei's that are for sale..................in my ignorance I'd have thought they would have been right up my sonic street.

thanks again guys'n'gals, and please keep 'em coming.
S[/quote]

[OutToPlayJazz]

For a really crisp, modern sound with plenty of scope for different music, go graphite necked Status (there's JohnGH's SII 5er on the for sale section) & anything MarkBass. You'll never look back!

[Gunsfreddy2003]

I tried that Mark Bass stuff out and agree that it has a great sound, serious power and portability but the aesthetics of their gear always puts me off! I know that sound should be everything but I just could not cope with looking like a wasp!

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='209990' date='May 31 2008, 08:51 AM']For a really crisp, modern sound with plenty of scope for different music, go graphite necked Status (there's JohnGH's SII 5er on the for sale section) & anything MarkBass. You'll never look back![/quote]

[OutToPlayJazz]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' post='209992' date='May 31 2008, 08:54 AM']I tried that Mark Bass stuff out and agree that it has a great sound, serious power and portability but the aesthetics of their gear always puts me off! I know that sound should be everything but I just could not cope with looking like a wasp![/quote]

HeHe... I have the 2x10 Traveller cab on top of the mini 15 combo... My drummer's wife says it looks like "Monkeee!"

[bassbluestew]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='209995' date='May 31 2008, 09:16 AM']HeHe... I have the 2x10 Traveller cab on top of the mini 15 combo... My drummer's wife says it looks like "Monkeee!"

[/quote]


LOL...........it DOES look like a monkey........a black curly wig on there and you're laughing.

R.e. Status.............I've never played one, had a very quick play of one of Ped's graphite necked baases and was surprised how organic it felt, very nice. And I did look at that Status with a good deal of lust, I like besses with heads on.

R.e. Seis........isn't the Bartolini a very modern sounding pickup ???

Mire of options.........I like that, good name for a band too.

Stewart

[charic]

Keep the setup you have and try EQ'ing differently?

[lozbass]

Some great comments here - one of the most informative and informed threads I've read. 'Not sure I can maintain the standard but (and to reitarate comments above)...

Amp - I recently sold my Series 6 AH200 and regret it (massively) - nothing wrong with the amps I have now but they don't do the Trace sound. For what you'd get for the TE head, I'd say hang on to it and experiment - I'm sure it can do what you're looking for (but if you do sell, sell to me!)

Bass - I think that either of the Sei Jazzers on here would be an excellent choice...however, the Barts would need to come out. If you can stretch, an alternative would be a nice '70s Fender Jazz (probably expensive, but should hold its value).

Strings - before doing/selling anything, I'd try new strings. Personally, I hate Elixirs (and Rotosound Swing Bass, whilst very bright, hate my frets and fingers). I've been using D'Addario XL nickels and find them very piano-like and punchy on a Jazz. They seem to have decent life-span but for regular playing/gigging, I'd say change every two to three months (I'm always amazed at the difference after re-stringing). I know that guage is a very personal issue, but for the tone you're seeking, I wouldn't go under 40-100 (or 120).

Cabs - for me, this is the area in which we've seen the greatest progress in the past ten years. I've been very pleased with an Epi ul112, but any of the modern, small, lightweights should fit the bill (the only high-end cabs I really haven't been impressed by are Markbass - it's probably just a personal thing).

If you've made it this far...probably the biggest issue is strings - I really wouldn't do anything without a bit of experimentation - a good set-up with nice, shiny new strings can be as good to me as a complete change of rig!

Good luck with it all...oh and if the AH200 is going...