In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[EBS_freak]

I guess we got to bring it in at the right price - so, affordable, especially compared to the competition!

[andysg42]

How’s it working Russ ? Size is perfect . Looks like a carpet tile on top , is it going to have the rubber top like in your earlier photos ? How’s the amp coming on , don’t see that in the photo Russ ? Regards Andy 🙏

[EBS_freak]

26 minutes ago, andysg42 said:

How’s it working Russ ? Size is perfect . Looks like a carpet tile on top , is it going to have the rubber top like in your earlier photos ? How’s the amp coming on , don’t see that in the photo Russ ? Regards Andy 🙏

Good to hear that the size is looking to be right... that’s one of the key aspects... portability! Already looking at making that aspect better with further weight reduction and making it easier to handle - but without any impact to the feel and feedback that the board gives. Again, it’s got to be right, no corners cut! For example, Nick has reworked some of the internals and shaved half a kg off the weight.

Nick concurs that the electronic components are working well with a uniform, highly responsive feel across the board... so that’s a good result and certainly what we have been going for.

It’s a carpet tile. The moulding of the top is expensive so we've got to get the board right before we think about pulling the trigger on that (approaching 4 figures for the moulding) - so the carpet will do for now until the board mechanics are finalised. Obviously, the cosmetics will be spot on like in the earlier pics - myself and Nick are very OCD about that element!

Amps bubbling along... but in order to get the most out of the amp, got to finalise the board as there is some special sauce happening in the amp to specifically match up with the board.

keep the feedback coming!

Edited May 12, 2019 by EBS_freak

[sPiKi]

Thanks EBS. I bought the C10s and although I have yet to use them in the wild, they did sound impressive when I met up with one of the others guys and experimented with my bass sound through the desk. 

[EBS_freak]

13 hours ago, sPiKi said:

Thanks EBS. I bought the C10s and although I have yet to use them in the wild, they did sound impressive when I met up with one of the others guys and experimented with my bass sound through the desk. 

Good stuff - do report back!

[Davo-London]

Shout out to EBS_freak who suggested a couple of IEMs.  I went for ZT ZS10 and I'm bowled over just how good they are and the quality/definition of the various instruments and voices in the mix.  The drums, in particular, had a wonderfully full sound - the kick and floor tom were to die for (obvs I was playing them!).

An absolute bargain at around £40.

Peace

Davo

[EBS_freak]

No worries Davo - glad that you could hear the benefits of a multiple driver setup. Just goes to show that you can get an immense amount of headroom and low end response without breaking the bank! Enjoy!

[Rik (ESA)]

Hi all, I picked up some Shure 535's a while back in a trade, and I'm very happy with them, but without going through all 73 pages of this thread (albeit the content is absolutely golden!), please could you let me know if there are alternatives I should consider at a similar price point? Custom moulds are tempting, and again, if there is a view on the best place for these, please let me know? 

Apologies if these questions have been covered a gazillion times before! 

Many thanks, 

Rick

[EBS_freak]

17 minutes ago, Rik (ESA) said:

Hi all, I picked up some Shure 535's a while back in a trade, and I'm very happy with them, but without going through all 73 pages of this thread (albeit the content is absolutely golden!), please could you let me know if there are alternatives I should consider at a similar price point? Custom moulds are tempting, and again, if there is a view on the best place for these, please let me know? 

Apologies if these questions have been covered a gazillion times before! 

Many thanks, 

Rick

http://www.custom-inearmonitors.co.uk/iems/ultimate-ears-ue-6-pro-custom-in-ear-monitors.html

The above is where you want to be at. Save your money for those. Well worth the visit to see Paul at CIEM Co. above as you can compare all the different models (albeit in a non custom form!). He's a one stop shop for getting impressions made and handles everything until the customs arrive on your door mat.

The more budget option - that will give you far more headroom and a superior low end response, well, that would be the ZS10 or AS10. Much, much cheaper than the Shure. What they give up in "reference" quality, they gain in headroom... which is way more beneficial from a live IEM point of view. Alot of people, myself included, would take a set of ZS10s over a set of 535s purely because of the extended headroom in the bass.

The UE6 however... well, that gives you the extended lows, superior isolation (meaning you don't have to drive the drivers as hard) but gives you a far superior tuning (e.g. crossovers, frequency response, phase alignment) to the standard universals (which are typically just place some balanced armatures (speakers) in a casing. You may notice that the UE6 is a triple driver setup - so whats different to your 535s? Well, 535s are a triple balanced armature setup as opposed to the UE6 hybrid setup (which is a dynamic speaker in the mid, the low and a balanced armature in the high). What's this mean? A dynamic typically has greater headroom, greater bass response and has a warmer timbre to a balanced armature. I tend to say that a dynamic roughly equals 2 balanced armatures in the lows. Dynamics give up a little detail - but I would wager 99% of people wouldn't know in a blind test. The hybrid setup of the UE6 with the balanced armature in the highs however, still give you are the sparkle, air and detail where you need it. I would normally recommend a quad balanced armature setup for a bassplayer - but the UE6 gives the same sort of experience (due to the added headroom and bass response of the dynamic drivers) - and a lower cost compared to a quad armature custom.

[Rik (ESA)]

That's a really useful insight, thanks very much. Will look at the zs10s likely as an interim whilst I save funds for the UE6, unless the zs10s turn out to be a significant step up from the 535s anyway. 

Thanks again. 

[LukeFRC]

I got my UE 900s what only 2 years back, and got a good deal with them at about £100 or so... it's crazy to see how much the initial cost barrier to entry has dropped and something half good costs less than a set of decent strings now.

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

I got my UE 900s what only 2 years back, and got a good deal with them at about £100 or so... it's crazy to see how much the initial cost barrier to entry has dropped and something half good costs less than a set of decent strings now.

That’s progress or something like that! I guess it’s true though - the presence of multidriver IEMs from China has really shook up the entry point for IEMs... and when they are offering so much more than the 215s they are competing against... well, it’s a bit of a no brainer. You primarily pay for bass and headroom... and things like the ZS10 have it in spades. As I say, not necessarily sonically brilliant - but for monitoring use as opposed to critical listening, fantastic. Having said that, there’s more than a few people out there who would say that they are great as a set of critical listening IEMs. I’m not sure I agree with that - but I guess it’s all subjective!

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, Rik (ESA) said:

That's a really useful insight, thanks very much. Will look at the zs10s likely as an interim whilst I save funds for the UE6, unless the zs10s turn out to be a significant step up from the 535s anyway. 

Thanks again. 

No worries - I’ll be surprised if you don’t notice a big improvement in the lows.... but yeah, don’t go spending more on universals, have a set of UE6s in your sight. That’s where things start to get interesting and are noticeably a step up all round.

[intime-nick]

9 hours ago, Rik (ESA) said:

That's a really useful insight, thanks very much. Will look at the zs10s likely as an interim whilst I save funds for the UE6, unless the zs10s turn out to be a significant step up from the 535s anyway. 

Thanks again. 

as someone who went through a similar number of steps : 215s - UE900s - ZS10 - LUGS quads - UE6, it's been an interesting journey.  I would concur with everything Russ has said - the ZS10s are remarkable for the money as a live IEM but, as with all universals, experimentation with different tip materials & shapes to get the best fit/seal is vital.  The only cautionary thing i would say about them is that they have quite a large casing for a universal IEM and may not fit small ears.  I like my LUGS (2x low,1x mid, 1x high - all BA) and my UE6s - both very capable custom IEMs.  I tend to favour the UE6s mainly because they are a better fit than my LUGS - nothing to do with the quality of the LUGS at all, more the fact that it highlights the need for accurate ear impressions (i.e. don't use Boots for ear impressions as they are expensive and poor quality).  I will be getting my LUGS reshelled using the digital scan data from my UE6 impressions at some point.

Like most things, knowing what i know now, i would have skipped straight from my original SE215s (bought as an initial foray into using IEMs with the band) and gone straight to a custom quad or similar but hindsight is a wonderful thing ! 

Edited May 30, 2019 by intime-nick

[EBS_freak]

2 hours ago, intime-nick said:

Like most things, knowing what i know now, i would have skipped straight from my original SE215s (bought as an initial foray into using IEMs with the band) and gone straight to a custom quad or similar but hindsight is a wonderful thing ! 

215s are a very important IEM - at the shows we always refer to them as the gateway drug that lead onto stronger things!

You'll already know nick - but for others reading this, the 215 is hardly representative of the quality that you can get from an IEM - but their place in the market is very important!

For those that are struggling to understand the difference, the 215 is like a single 8" bass cab... a UE6, an 8x10. You'll hear stuff through one of them.... and you'll hear lots of stuff through the other, with loads of bass, loads of headroom.

It's quite disheartening to hear about people that have "tried IEMs, didn't like them" - and their adventures are either with the buds you get free with your mobile phone or a set of 215s ("hey, they were nearly 100 quid, they got to be good!")

[MoJoKe]

13 hours ago, Rik (ESA) said:

That's a really useful insight, thanks very much. Will look at the zs10s likely as an interim whilst I save funds for the UE6, unless the zs10s turn out to be a significant step up from the 535s anyway. 

Thanks again. 

I have both ZS and AS10s as backups...  I have to say I much prefer the AS.  They feel much more controlled and tighter bass response.  Maybe not so suitable for reference listing pleasure, but for IEM use they are much more detailed and controlled...  I play bass and sing BV, and the separation is great.  IMHO the AS are easily as good as the Shure.  A different fit, they are bigger, but I can live with that.

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by MoJoKe

[mrtcat]

Another very happy UE6 user here. The other guys in my band all use universals and you'll regularly see them with one in and one out. I use a decent wireless system and have never once felt the urge to remove a monitor mid gig. I had UE900s to start with but custom moulds are a massive step up. I also would recommend using the custom iem company. Paul will make sure everything is just right for you. 

[EBS_freak]

Was looking at the digital IEMs (Lectrosonics = <1ms latency stereo) and also rechecked out the 5Hz Stageclix IEM system (which is just one of their guitar systems in reverse by the looks of things - 2.3ms latency, but mono).

That 2.3ms rang a bell. That's also the latency of the Boss WL20... so those of you running a wired Behringer P2 off a single aux may be interested in combining it with a WL20 (circa 150 quid) to get the equivalent of the Stageclix (albeit it not 5Ghz). Gets you around the issue of crappy companders that are usually found on analogue systems. The P2 and WL20 would still be pretty compact too- it wouldn't be an issue hanging that off your belt.

So just over 200 quid as opposed to 550 quid for the stageclix you have a cool little digital system. (Not that I'd pay 550 quid for that Stageclix - I'd be continuing to save to get an EW300)

@stingrayPete1977 - maybe we should investigate at the next geek meet... we have a plethora of P2 available... and I know a man with a WL20.

 

Of course, I guess you could get stereo if you started getting all heath robinson about it! I guess just over 300 quid for a stereo 2.4Ghz based IEM system not to be sniffed at. Of course, 2.4Ghz in numbers does come with its own issues. But hey... something to thing about... or try if you already have the gear. Do remember though... latency is cumulative... so if you are running digital stuff, you will incur latency along your chain... (e.g. digital wireless from bass to pedal board... the latency of any digital pedals/modellers added in series, the latency of the mixer itself... and then the latency of the p2 digital transmission).

Anyway. Have fun.

[Kirky]

Anyone know where I can get a P2?  Noone seems to have stock.

[EBS_freak]

13 minutes ago, Kirky said:

Anyone know where I can get a P2?  Noone seems to have stock.

Bit rare at the moment aren't they!?

[sPiKi]

I ordered mine from Thomann but that was maybe late April. It was £38 plus delivery. Considerably cheaper than the last one i saw on Amazon at £67...the joys of the free market!

I've only used it once so far but it was easy to adjust mid song. The simplicity of one knob makes it (no Finbar Saunders jokes you lot!).

I've two weddings this weekend so it's coming out with me. Happy to further share my experiences.

 

[EBS_freak]

It’s a nice unit. Remarkable for the price really - especially when compared to the Fischer model. I bet Fischer are proper peeved at Behringer.

[stingrayPete1977]

It's crazy we paid less than £30 each for ours, wish I'd bought a spare. 

[EBS_freak]

Early adopters!

[sPiKi]

I used mine last night at a wedding gig. Fine for the first 45 minutes and then the unit suddenly cut out. At the break I opened it to find one of the batteries had moved slightly and was not making a good connection. After reseating it the same thing happened later in the second half. Disappointing but hopefully a small piece of gorilla tape will hold it in place. I tend to move quite a bit on stage but not Iggy Pop type moves. It seems as if the battery housing is just a little neat. Sounds wise the unit was good. Very clear and clean sounding and easy to access the volume knob.

 

This was also the longest period I've used the C10s. They are pretty comfortable and sound impressive. I was able to dial in a good mix with vocals perfectly clear. I was however disappointed in my bass tone. Even though I could EQ it from the SQ4you app we use I need to spend a bit of time with our sound guy getting it right. The low E was farting out a bit and the sound was lacking body. I dont really think it's the C10s as everything else sounded spot on.