In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[stingrayPete1977]

Pow! 

[EBS_freak]

12 hours ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

Pow! 

Pow pow! Pew pew!

I fear it's becoming a common occurrence...!

[Mottlefeeder]

On 17/06/2019 at 13:59, burno70 said:

After a bit of advice.

My band, a three-piece, has a wired set up. I'm using a Behringer P2 with KZ ZS10 in ears.

The issue I have is that the guitar - which is balanced volume-wise with the drums and generally not overpowering, bleeds way too much into my in ear mix which then leads me to adjust my in ear levels way too high to compensate. The guitars aren't coming from the mixer, they're coming through the physical in ear earphones.

 

Recently, I've had a couple of instances of ringing in my ears following rehearsals and a gig - which can't continue.

I'd just add that we're not a particularly loud band and there isn't an issue with volume (guitar or otherwise) when not using in ears.

I can't afford proper moulded in ears, which I fear may be the only solution.

Thanks

Ste

If you are not already doing so, try lubricating the tips before putting them in your ears - I find I get a better seal that way. Our harmonica player was advised to use hand cream for this, but I find saliva works well enough. Possibly the tips stay more centred in the canal or something along those lines. 

David

[intime-nick]

i found these tips very good when I used ZS10s for both fit and isolation (and cheaper than the Comply tips) :

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B071NZJ7QR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

once you've figured out which size you need, you can order them just in that size

Edited June 20, 2019 by intime-nick

[burno70]

Thanks for the advices all. Had a good chat with fellow band members last night. Guitarist has lowered his amp and increased the gain going into the mixer which helps loads. No ringing in ears after rehearsal - which is nice. I think the guitarist's reluctance to lower the volume is to do with gain stages - valve amps and all that. I get where he's coming from - his guitar tone is brilliant and an asset to the band. But compromise was required - and achieved, so all good.

[Les]

Followed this thread for a very long time and a couple of years ago bought a cheapo system to play with but never used it in a gig situation till last night.

The experience was beyond a revelation.  If you are thinking about this and have vocal duties do yourself a favour, sell your best bass and buy an in ear system, (your standby bass will be up to the job 😃)and the world will become a better place.

I'm gobsmacked and I've been round the block a couple of times and been there and done that and got the T Shirt but this was amazing.

Stunned of Wigan

[JimBobTTD]

2 hours ago, Les said:

Followed this thread for a very long time and a couple of years ago bought a cheapo system to play with but never used it in a gig situation till last night.

The experience was beyond a revelation.  If you are thinking about this and have vocal duties do yourself a favour, sell your best bass and buy an in ear system, (your standby bass will be up to the job 😃)and the world will become a better place.

I'm gobsmacked and I've been round the block a couple of times and been there and done that and got the T Shirt but this was amazing.

Stunned of Wigan

Dear Stunned of Wigan,

What system did you buy a couple of years ago? 

I have mixer/Behringer PS2/KSZ10s - the recommended kit for folks looking to try in ears - and use it with my bass in one channel of the mixer and a room mic in another. It, too, was a revelation but I am considering upgrading to a wireless pack. Or have you invested in some choice in-ears? That, too, is on my to-do list!

[Les]

4 hours ago, JimBobTTD said:

What system did you buy a couple of years ago?

It's a cheap gear4music system. 1 transmitter, 3 receivers.

[JimBobTTD]

Does it give good bass response? I am trying to work out what the real difference is between all of them. You can, by and large, name a price and there is a system that costs that amount! 

[Les]

To be honest @JimBobTTD this was far too much of a thrown together in frustration with the monitor system affair for me to have a valid opinion on the equipment. We run 2 mixes, the drummer has her own mix with wired in ears and has always used that and the other 3 of us share a mix. We all had different ear buds, none of which were expensive.

My observations for what it's worth are really about in ears as opposed to normal monitors rather than the equipment available as that is a never ending affair.

The sound levels we usually get on stage were reduced dramatically making it a much more comfortable place to be albeit with a certain feeling of being detached from the proceedings, this is something I'm sure we'll get used to.

It quickly became apparent to me that we needed pretty much everything in the mix as the back line and drums were cut out to a great extent, as I do the sound I did this but took it easy with the kick and the bass as I had no idea how everyone else's earbuds were coping. 

Biggest bonus for me was the vocals, we all sing and if I say so myself we can all hold a note but the ease of pitching with being able to hear yourself and everyone else was great.  One thing to note was when the backing vocals came in it did seem to compress/limit with the increase in signal, I assume this is a good thing and a safety measure. There's also no strain singing either as your not trying sing louder just to hear yourself. 

I do get the feeling that what's in your ears is going to be far more important that the actual transmitter and receiver you use as these cheap units worked very well with no distortion or drop out and we are pretty active and mobile during our show. 

Think the KZ ZS10's are going to be my next purchase. What do you think of yours ?

Les

 

[JimBobTTD]

Thanks, Les. I am looking at cheaper wireless systems for the band. I don't think I can persuade them to go with something pricey as they have not really understood the value of in-ears yet. 

The KSZ10s are good as far as I can tell. I have not actually tried to use normal earphones, but I would imagine that they would be terrible. The KSZ10s hold the sound well without distortion and are comfortable to wear for long(ish) periods of time. I can see why they are recommended so much.

[Les]

What's the current BC recommended source/supplier for the KS zs10 pro's ? I'll need them here by Friday in an ideal world.

 

Les 

[EBS_freak]

Be careful with cheap radio - the reproduction of the audio can be really naff.... as the quality of the companders can be very poor. (Compander being the process of compressing the audio so it can be sent via radio - and then uncompressed the other end). This process can make the bass sound thing and the top end really shrill.

For trying out where you could get with inears, wired is defo the way to go - and then save up for something like a ew300/psm300 setup if you decide that you absolutely need wireless. Unless you are already wireless on your bass, get obbm to make you up a combo cable for an all in one bass and IEM feed loom.

[EBS_freak]

Amazon prime would get it t

1 minute ago, Les said:

What's the current BC recommended source/supplier for the KS zs10 pro's ? I'll need them here by Friday in an ideal world.

 

Les 

Amazon prime would get it to you tomorrow.

[Les]

14 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Be careful with cheap radio

Point taken, baby steps at the moment though as it's taken me a long time to even get them to try it, in fact it was only me spitting my dummy out after Fridays gig and the monitors from hell and sending a message to the band saying it was inears or nothing at Saturdays gig that got them to try them, I think they are won over though so the process of moving on up the in ears ladder can begin. 

18 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

wired is defo the way to go

Can't do wired. We are all wireless and spend half the show stood on the audience or behind the bar. No talent whatsoever but more front than Blackpool

 

[Osiris]

@Les for cheap and cheerful wireless in ears I can highly recommend the LD MEI1000 G2 system, I use mine with the mandatory KZ ZS10's and have no issues with sound quality. The lows are deep and powerful without being bloated and the highs are clear, they can get a little sharp if you really push them but nothing a touch of high end cut on the monitor mix can't resolve. To my ear there a bit of a dip in the upper mids which I suspect is down to the ZS10's, but this is no bad thing as it helps ease any ear fatigue by the end of the night. 

My ZS10's were from Amazon too!

Likewise @EBS_freak has warned me away from the cheaper wireless systems but after having a try out with our guitarists LD MEI 100 G2 (the 1000 is stereo whereas the 100 is dual mono, I think?) I was really impressed. I was expecting something that was probably going to be of a similar quality to FM radio but to my ears the quality is much better, maybe not quite CD quality but probably not far off. And once you're in the moment on the gig and are not focusing on the quality of the sound so much as listening to what's going on then you'll find you can hear everything clearly anyway, which is surely the whole point! I picked my LD system up new for less that £200 in the black Friday sales last year, but the going rate seems to be around £250 new, which is still a great price, IMO. I can't comment on how they compare to the more expensive systems as I've not tried them but for me and the gigs I do (weekend warrior with a mix of pub and function gigs) they're more than good enough. I suspect to get any significant improvement you're going to have to spunk around 10 times as much on a system, but for under £300 including the ZS10's, I think it's a no brainer. The LD also comes with a rack mount kit too. 

[Les]

Thanks @Osiris that looks ace. I take it I can hook 3 receivers up to that transmitter?

[Osiris]

14 minutes ago, Les said:

Thanks @Osiris that looks ace. I take it I can hook 3 receivers up to that transmitter?

That I don't know, I'm afraid, it's only me and the guitarist who are on wireless IEM's and we each have our own transmitter and receiver systems. 

Have a look to see what it says in the manual, I've tried to attach it here but I don't know if it'll work as it's a pdf. Can't see why not but I don't think I've seen anyone else attach one on BC before! If it doesn't work, pull a copy off the web from the LD website, they're freely available. 

LD Wireless IEM's MEI 1000 G2.pdf

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, Les said:

Thanks @Osiris that looks ace. I take it I can hook 3 receivers up to that transmitter?

Yes - just tune all the receivers into the same channel and they'll all pick up the same signal.

You can run two mono mixes from one transmitter but putting the receivers in mono mode and panning the mix hard l or hard r. You'll hear the same in both ears but only have to fork out for 1 transmitter. All depends upon budget to spend on gear and the amount of free auxes on your desk. If you are running stereo (each stereo mix requires 2 auxes), you'll start burning through monitor mixes pretty quickly... so to any guys reading looking at running lots of stereo in ears, make sure you have double the amount of auxes as band members!

[Osiris]

Obviously it would mean more of an outlay but if you each have your own wireless systems you have a degree more control over what you are hearing, for example, I run two identical outputs from my pre-amp (we're amp-less on stage) one of which goes to the desk and to the FoH, the other goes into the back of my LD transmitter. That allows me to have more bass in my personal mix without affecting what anyone else hears. You can adjust the volume of the individual channels from the LD receiver so I can have the bass sitting nicely over the top of the rest of the band. If you're singing as well you might want an additional mini mixer to help if you wanted to have the vocals and bass louder, but I don't (can't ) sing  so it's not an issue for me. 

[Osiris]

This has just popped up in the for sale section, it's just the transmitter only but then again it's only £30.

This is the model our guitarist has and he's really pleased with it, if that's any mind of glowing endorsement 

 

 

[intime-nick]

6 hours ago, Osiris said:

This has just popped up in the for sale section, it's just the transmitter only but then again it's only £30.

This is the model our guitarist has and he's really pleased with it, if that's any mind of glowing endorsement 

 

 

I used to use this system before I got my Sennheiser EW300G3 - can't really fault it at the price and did the job (the EW300 is a step up in build quality, sound and flexibility of course but it should be for the money)

I preferred this one to the more expensive MEI1000 as i felt the receiver was better built (the more expensive receiver was a poor copy of the EW300 Rx and as such, didn't feel sturdy enough on the battery access flap)

The new LD Systems IEM Tx/Rx products look nice though - they were mentioned by Russ a few pages back I think : https://www.ld-systems.com/en/in-ear-monitoring/u508-iem-hp-in-ear-monitoring-system-with-earphones/?force_sid=spp6bjp8e5qicbrjs53l6r1gmudg3bkd9ui7p9lfuhfacg7r9d5ctp8h2ubq9uok0mfv53pdutgvgkgivj4shnrp0llcdai4bqoev40

 

Edited June 24, 2019 by intime-nick
added web link

[Osiris]

14 hours ago, intime-nick said:

I preferred this one to the more expensive MEI1000 as i felt the receiver was better built (the more expensive receiver was a poor copy of the EW300 Rx and as such, didn't feel sturdy enough on the battery access flap)
 

Interesting observation, I can't remember what the receiver is like for the 100. The one with the 1000 is plastic but feels reassuringly sturdy to me, I've not had any issues with mine in the 8 months or so that I've been gigging with it. 

[EBS_freak]

Nobody tempted to do the P2/WL20 hack? I reckon that's the best way of getting a good full range, wireless mono feed!

[burno70]

Thanks for posting that Osiris. After dabbling with a cheapo transmitter/receiver system I had thought wireless was out of my price range for the time being - that might now change. Especially as EBS has advised that you can get two separate mono mixes out of one transmitter!