In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[EBS_freak]

UE900s are a good quad driver option for a sensible price (a few people I know have bought them for under 200 quid from eglobal - pretty decent as the rrp is closer to 400) - balanced armatures, dual lows and lots of tips to ensure a good fit. There are of course other options, things like the Westone W40s, Shure 846s, Sony XB40s etc... but for the money and the bass response, the UE900 hits the mark and as stated, there's always the option to put in a custom shell if you decide to go down that route... (I have to say a custom shell is really where you want to be at... but be aware you'll lose be left with something that has limited resale value - if that's important to you).

The UE900s will be a night and day improvement over you consumer in-ears.

If you are running IEMs and letting the PA do all the work, the justification is that your are buying Bergs/Vanderklay/<insert other boutique brand> for your ears.

[mrtcat]

I'm about to invest more int my IEM setup now that I know how well it works for me. I started super low budget (I was able to find a workable IEM setup for under £100 all in) as I didn't know if it would be for me or not. Well it definitely is for me and I really love all the benefits of being able to hear everything (we use tracks fairly often and it was a revelation using IEMs for this) and I really haven't struggled with feelin isolated. I'm probably going to pick up some UE900s and have them re shelled and stay on a wired system until I can afford a decent quality wireless setup.

My under £100 setup was a pair of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MEE-Audio-Universal-Isolating-Headphone/dp/B015S2I6A0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479726254&sr=8-1&keywords=mee+m6

One of these:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_powerplay_pm1.htm?glp=1&gclid=Cj0KEQiA08rBBRDUn4qproqwzYMBEiQAqpznswTwcQ1jOyOSgjbfoOIiS12dcRAe5VdTHKMwJDV5XegaAhJM8P8HAQ

And a packet of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Comply-T-500-Isolation-Earphone-Tips/dp/B004HKIAIS/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1479726938&sr=8-13&keywords=comply+memory+foam+tips

I'm under absolutely no illusion that this is anything other than a super budget way around it but I have found it a really useable setup and I've loved the clarity of sound and fact that my ears aren't getting any kind of bashing. I haven't found a wired system any more restricting than using a lead for my bass. We have a Behringer x-air 18 so I've been able to control my mix from a tablet. If anyone is thinking of giving IEMs a go this will certainly give you an idea of how it'll work for you without breaking the bank.

[MrPring]

Is the isolation that much of a factor in the difference between the 2 companies though? -26dB vs -20dB

The price and the sound quality are the deciding factors at the moment.

The quads are near identical prices but as you up the driver count, you are $200-300 more expensive going 64 audio.

It's a bit of a ballache being in Scotland as well, as it would be good to try the same number of drivers in a universal fit from both manufacturers.

At the moment I'm leaning towards quads but to double the driver count with JH Audio (JH13V2) its only around an extra £200 + the bonus of adjustable bass. Worth it?

Edited November 21, 2016 by MrPring

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='MrPring' timestamp='1479742737' post='3178886']
Is the isolation that much of a factor in the difference between the 2 companies though? -26dB vs -20dB
[/quote]
It depends how loud your surrounding environment is - if you are on a silent stage, then not a lot. If you are on a stage full of animals, then yes. But what I will say, is that -26dB is a great more isolation than -20db (remember dB is not linear!)

[quote]
The price and the sound quality are the deciding factors at the moment.
[/quote]
Naturally. At this price point, there's very little to choose between the two. The two (JH vs 64) aren't better or worse than each other, they have different sound signatures. Some people prefer the response of the 64s, others prefer the response of the JH. And of course, there are sometimes differences between the signatures from the sound manufacturers - for example, the Roxanne doesn't sound like the JH13 or JH16.

[quote]
The quads are near identical prices but as you up the driver count, you are $200-300 more expensive going 64 audio.
[/quote]
I never really understood the aggressive price hike in the 64s - I suppose they made their name, now they are moving into maximising their profit - but the driver count and cost certainly has no correlation with performance when comparing 64s and JH.

[quote]
It's a bit of a ballache being in Scotland as well, as it would be good to try the same number of drivers in a universal fit from both manufacturers.
[/quote]
Maybe if you can guarantee a number of purchases, you may be able to persuade Paul from the custom iem company to travel up there - so you can try them all out and get all your impressions and everything sorted in one go. Worth giving him a phone.

[quote]
At the moment I'm leaning towards quads but to double the driver count with JH Audio (JH13V2) its only around an extra £200 + the bonus of adjustable bass. Worth it?
[/quote]
Only you can make that decision - but doubling the driver count after a quad (min I would recommend for a bass player) doesn't necessarily mean better - it just gives you a different sound signature. In fact, if a company making a multi driver ear piece that hasn't got their crossover design sorted, then they could actually have a negative impact!

Edited November 21, 2016 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

Funny enough we should be talking about driver count.

And now... if you happen to have a spare $3000...

https://www.64audio.com/product/1964-A18-Custom-In-Ear-Monitor

18 drivers per side. I think Vitaliy and Jerry are in a battle of cramming drivers. To think that 1964 were the "affordable" option not so long ago, I defo think they are gunning for being the top name in the market... and I believe that this is the first time that they've trumped the competition on driver count. (and priced a flagship above Jerry Harvey's $2725 Layla).

Looking to see what Noble and UE do next! And Empire Ears... thought they would be happy with their 14 a side...

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1479727229' post='3178716']
I'm about to invest more int my IEM setup now that I know how well it works for me. I started super low budget (I was able to find a workable IEM setup for under £100 all in) as I didn't know if it would be for me or not. Well it definitely is for me and I really love all the benefits of being able to hear everything (we use tracks fairly often and it was a revelation using IEMs for this) and I really haven't struggled with feelin isolated. I'm probably going to pick up some UE900s and have them re shelled and stay on a wired system until I can afford a decent quality wireless setup.

My under £100 setup was a pair of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/MEE-Audio-Universal-Isolating-Headphone/dp/B015S2I6A0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479726254&sr=8-1&keywords=mee+m6

One of these:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_powerplay_pm1.htm?glp=1&gclid=Cj0KEQiA08rBBRDUn4qproqwzYMBEiQAqpznswTwcQ1jOyOSgjbfoOIiS12dcRAe5VdTHKMwJDV5XegaAhJM8P8HAQ

And a packet of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Comply-T-500-Isolation-Earphone-Tips/dp/B004HKIAIS/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1479726938&sr=8-13&keywords=comply+memory+foam+tips

I'm under absolutely no illusion that this is anything other than a super budget way around it but I have found it a really useable setup and I've loved the clarity of sound and fact that my ears aren't getting any kind of bashing. I haven't found a wired system any more restricting than using a lead for my bass. We have a Behringer x-air 18 so I've been able to control my mix from a tablet. If anyone is thinking of giving IEMs a go this will certainly give you an idea of how it'll work for you without breaking the bank.
[/quote] hmmm they are the budget IEM my friend the pro tech guy suggested as a cheap option - for what I do trying work out if worth dropping the cash on the ue900s ones

[mrtcat]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1479823724' post='3179556']
hmmm they are the budget IEM my friend the pro tech guy suggested as a cheap option - for what I do trying work out if worth dropping the cash on the ue900s ones
[/quote]

I've been very pleased with them but have nothing to benchmark them against. I'm sure I won't be but, if the UE900s aren't a big step up from what I already find very acceptable, i'd be really disappointed.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1479828036' post='3179604']


I've been very pleased with them but have nothing to benchmark them against. I'm sure I won't be but, if the UE900s aren't a big step up from what I already find very acceptable, i'd be really disappointed.
[/quote]

Listen to the live version of Hotel California from The Eagles Hell Freezes Over album and tell me you can't hear a difference!

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1479828036' post='3179604']


I've been very pleased with them but have nothing to benchmark them against. I'm sure I won't be but, if the UE900s aren't a big step up from what I already find very acceptable, i'd be really disappointed.
[/quote] when are you getting them? Tempted to wait till I hear your review!

[mrtcat]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1479842444' post='3179746']


Listen to the live version of Hotel California from The Eagles Hell Freezes Over album and tell me you can't hear a difference!
[/quote]

Will do, I'm confident I'll be really impressed but trying not to over hype in my head just in case lol.

[mrtcat]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1479851251' post='3179831']
when are you getting them? Tempted to wait till I hear your review!
[/quote]

Hopefully early Jan at the latest. Will post my thoughts then.

[intime-nick]

Just to add to the discussion, I've gone from an LD MEI100 wireless setup with Shure SE215's to a Sennheiser EW300G3 with UE900s in ears (both run in stereo which makes a huge difference). The change in sound quality from the LD to Sennheiser wasn't that much of a step but the hardware is much, much sturdier and overall it's just 'better'. The change from the SE215 to the UE900s was much more noticeable - generally better bass extension and overall clarity (I'm rubbish at describing sounds !!). Didn't like the UE cables at all - too easily knotted up (they are very carefully wound up each time) and feel pretty cheap to me. Much preferred the Shure cable which I now use on the UE's. loads of tips supplied with the UEs but my preference is triple flanged which are about the only type not supplied !

I got mine for under £200 - I would question their value buying them at the full RRP to be honest. I'd happily swap the large number of supplied tips for a better quality cable and storage case that is larger than that supplied but that's just me.

Edited November 22, 2016 by intime-nick

[EBS_freak]

One of the biggest differences between the LD and Sennheiser, audio aside, is the RF section. The LD has fixed channels. If you are planning on running a lot of wireless, you are going to be running into intermod and interference problems pretty quickly if you can't fine tune your systems. Yes, you can choose a number of channels if you are using the same gear, (e.g. IEMs) but if you start throwing in Mics... and even add the complexity of different manufacturers, you're going to run into problems pretty quickly.

UE900s - defo, they are a bargain under 200 - the eglobal link has been bounded about a bit previously. I wouldn't be looking to buy them for anywhere near the rrp!

[OmeDunk]

The ue900's have been on the market for A couple of years now.

Are there any contenders at the 200 gbp mark?

[EBS_freak]

There's not really a lot of competition at that price point, especially when we are talking quad drive balanced armatures. There's the XBA40s if you can find them... otherwise you are stepping up to say the Westone WD40s. Should probably point out that the competition in balanced armature designs is very tight - there are only really Knowles and Sonion in the balanced armature manufacture game, so likelihood whatever you buy will be made from those, or a combination of those. What you are paying for is the sound signature (e.g. tuning and crossover design - that for most are actually passive and made up via tube dampening and tube length, only a few have electronic crossovers in place) and the casing. The UE900s are defo the bargains... and considering that they are from UE (who are certainly up there in terms of IEM front runners), they are not to be sniffed at despite them having been on the market for some time. There is a reason why they haven't been discontinued - they are great.

These have also been on my radar of late - [url="http://www.mi.com/en/headphonesprohd/"]http://www.mi.com/en/headphonesprohd/[/url] - only out since the end of 2016...

Dynamic in the lows so should give better response than a single BA (remember I always suggest at least a dual low when using balanced armatures because balanced armatures have less headroom) - [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Xiaomi-Pro-HD-Earphones-Triple-Driver-Dual-Dynamic-BA-Hybrid-UK-fast-postage-/222339603573?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368"]http://www.ebay.co.u...725.m3641.l6368[/url]

(Easiest place to source is probably eBay as they are not officially available outside of the US)

They are cheap enough to give them a whirl, right?

Edited January 4, 2017 by EBS_freak

[LukeFRC]

So you know when you see a wee bit odd eBay ad- one where on a big money purchase you would avoid? Well the postman just brought me what looks like a opened but new, probably grey import, ue900s for £125!
Looking forward to trying them out

[OmeDunk]

Nice, Luke.

EBS Freak, thanks for the suggestion. I ordered them.
I'll keep you updated. Too bad I can not compare them to the ue900's

<removed the faulty link>

Edited January 4, 2017 by OmeDunk

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1483538070' post='3208016']
So you know when you see a wee bit odd eBay ad- one where on a big money purchase you would avoid? Well the postman just brought me what looks like a opened but new, probably grey import, ue900s for £125!
Looking forward to trying them out
[/quote]

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='OmeDunk' timestamp='1483541718' post='3208064']
Nice, Luke.

EBS Freak, thanks for the suggestion. I ordered them.
I'll keep you updated. Too bad I can not compare them to the UE900's.

And made use of a nice tip from another site:

[font="verdana, geneva, lucida, arial, helvetica, sans-serif"][color="#000000"][size=3]<Link Removed>[/size][/color][/font]
[/quote]

I can't vouch for how good they are... just the fact that a dynamic driver should be stronger than a single balanced armature in the lows. Those are the older versions of the newer ProHDs - but the technology with the dynamic driver in the low is still the same thinking as the new ones.

Just make sure that you get a good seal with the tips, you don't want to be losing any bass. If the supplied tips don't fit well, get some more suited to your ear shape!

Edited January 4, 2017 by EBS_freak

[OmeDunk]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483545871' post='3208108']


... Those are the older versions of the newer ProHDs - but the technology with the dynamic driver in the low is still the same thinking as the new ones.
[/quote]

Thx, I cancelled the order, removed the link and going to order the HD's.

[OmeDunk]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483545871' post='3208108']


... Those are the older versions of the newer ProHDs - but the technology with the dynamic driver in the low is still the same thinking as the new ones.
[/quote]

Thx, I cancelled the order, removed the link and going to order the HD's.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483542311' post='3208073']
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
[/quote]
So played around with different size buds - the overall size of the solid bit are a bit wider than the ear phones I've been using so took a while to work out what was best. Two different sizes of the foam buds seemed best.

Only tried them with recorded music so far. Played around with music off my iPhone and our Bluesound hifi.
it sounded good... not amazing, but not too different to how the track sounded through the hifi.
Nice sound - to be honest wasn't blown away.
Sound proofness was pretty good. Was putting the hi-fi playing one song through the speakers then playing a different song through the iPhone on the lowest possible setting.

so got out the ear buds I had been using - and stuck them in to compare... and suddenly the difference was MASSIVE. The bottom end just went, the mids got all lumpy and bits of the music were just not audible. Massive difference.
Went back the the ue900s and the music came back!

Looking forward to using them as iem at practice next week. Need to get used to the pre-formed ear loop and how they sit in my ears.

So they seem awesome- esp at the price I got them at! (and also show how our hifi is pretty decent and i've got used to music sounding fairly well reproduced)

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1483569679' post='3208436'] So played around with different size buds - the overall size of the solid bit are a bit wider than the ear phones I've been using so took a while to work out what was best. Two different sizes of the foam buds seemed best. Only tried them with recorded music so far. Played around with music off my iPhone and our Bluesound hifi. it sounded good... not amazing, but not too different to how the track sounded through the hifi. Nice sound - to be honest wasn't blown away. Sound proofness was pretty good. Was putting the hi-fi playing one song through the speakers then playing a different song through the iPhone on the lowest possible setting. so got out the ear buds I had been using - and stuck them in to compare... and suddenly the difference was MASSIVE. The bottom end just went, the mids got all lumpy and bits of the music were just not audible. Massive difference. Went back the the ue900s and the music came back! Looking forward to using them as iem at practice next week. Need to get used to the pre-formed ear loop and how they sit in my ears. So they seem awesome- esp at the price I got them at! (and also show how our hifi is pretty decent and i've got used to music sounding fairly well reproduced) [/quote]

I lost heart as I read the beginning of your reply! It just didn't make sense - but yes, when you compared to your "average" headphones, your findings are as I would expect. What you have to remember, is that the price to performance ratio is a lot less in your favour when you go portable... even more so when you go from over the ear to in-ear. You really are asking a lot out of all those tiny devices when compared to what you can get in full size speakers!

The bass, as I've said numerous times, is critical in IEMs. You need as much as you can get and as good a seal as you can get. The seal on an IEM can make or break them in terms or performance. Moulds can really help you there - especially if you have odd shaped lugs like me. Having said that, it perfectly possible to get a good seal with some tips that really suit you. It's quite surprising to see how people react when coming from something like Apple buds, which they perceive to be great, to go to something with a lot more oomph.

Looking forward to your next update!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='OmeDunk' timestamp='1483560496' post='3208308']
Thx, I cancelled the order, removed the link and going to order the HD's.
[/quote]

Cool - would be very interested to hear your thoughts on them... as they could prove to be a very good introductory unit that would challenge the 215s and MEE M6s that people seem to go for.

Edited January 5, 2017 by EBS_freak

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1483572359' post='3208463']


Cool - would be very interested to hear your thoughts on them... as they could prove to be a very good introductory unit that would challenge the 215s and MEE M6s that people seem to go for.
[/quote] have you tried the M6s? Our drummer loves them