In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[OmeDunk]

UE Sound Tap: Indeed, glorified headphone amp.

Through function for line or speaker signal in jack or speakon is nice though

Edited January 19, 2017 by OmeDunk

[mcnach]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1484837237' post='3218943']
New toys - [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUasZpMINt8[/media]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzEAn2y-5-g[/media]

Glorified headphone amp right?
[/quote]

Hmmm, I actually like that, as it would provide a relatively cheap and uncomplicated way to get into IEM... but I'd like an aux input that you could mix with the wedge input too. Pretty much everywhere I play I could select one of the wedges (which one it'll depend on which mix I like best, but probably usually the singer's one), and then use the headphone output of my OmniCabSim into the SoundTap, mixing it with the wedge mix to my liking. It would be a wired system, which is not ideal, but it would be simple, something that even I can understand... and I don't need to depend on other people or begging for mixer aux outputs etc

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1484906903' post='3219518']
Hmmm, I actually like that, as it would provide a relatively cheap and uncomplicated way to get into IEM... but I'd like an aux input that you could mix with the wedge input too. Pretty much everywhere I play I could select one of the wedges (which one it'll depend on which mix I like best, but probably usually the singer's one), and then use the headphone output of my OmniCabSim into the SoundTap, mixing it with the wedge mix to my liking. It would be a wired system, which is not ideal, but it would be simple, something that even I can understand... and I don't need to depend on other people or begging for mixer aux outputs etc
[/quote]

You just need a sub mixer to add the "more me" functionality... they've missed a trick with that one.

[EBS_freak]

In fact, thinking about this, you could fashion your own with a small mixer and something like a Palmer PDI09 (enables you to take a balanced feed from a speaker feed).

[EBS_freak]

I've been wondering whether to post this or not... but I have decided it's too cool not too. Some guys who actually follow my crap talking across this site (and maybe others) will have probably seem me mention the Subpac - basically a body worn subwoofer. There's a couple of problems with it - it's only available as a big vest (which will make you look a bit daft on stage) or as a chair back. It's also pretty darn expensive. So, I've been kind of looking at different options... and also been working on developing my own... however, I stopped pursuing that idea as I found out that some guys were already working on something very, very similar to what I was working on. Basically, what I was working on, quickly crossed paths with haptic feedback devices... so I decided to actually have a bigger look at who was using the components that I was looking at... and see what was going on in the market there.

Anyway, the thing I want to share with you is the Woojer devices...

Check this out.

[media]http://youtu.be/r8NWZ_PNxHI[/media]

So what's great about this, is that Woojer has developed a strap, in addition to the standard vest. It kinda looks portable enough to wear under stagewear without looking ridiculous. I notice in the videos that people wear the strap either on the upper part or lower part of the torso... so certainly, it would be a lot less conspicuous that the vest option.

[media]http://youtu.be/y-qsPK85yK0[/media]

The funny thing is, I'm not entirely sure that these guys have clocked onto how great their product could be in the IEM sector.

So, heres the rub... I'm kind of sold on it - but don't tend to recommend stuff to people without having first hand knowledge of it. I *think* this could be really good... and I think that this is the answer to those people who feel that they lose the connection of a load of air moving on stage. In reality, I don't know... but it look promising.

But... check this out (and I promise I am not being paid to advertise or anything) - [url="http://www.woojer.com/store/"]http://www.woojer.com/store/[/url] - it's introductory price with postage puts it circa £100. Now, it's kinda cheap enough for those serious about IEM to give it a whirl... as when the price goes up to full retail after the initial introductory price, £200 is a bit steep on a whim with no reviews to back it up.

I've bought one... but for those that are kinda sold on the idea too, I've posted this so you have the opportunity to get in on the cheaper price. Of course, when I get it when they are shipped, I'll give it my full appraisal.

Edited January 21, 2017 by EBS_freak

[OmeDunk]

Very interesting.
Thanks for sharing.

Do you know how the input and output work?
Is there an input for yout device and an output for your IEM?

Edited January 21, 2017 by OmeDunk

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='OmeDunk' timestamp='1484984903' post='3220131']
Very interesting.
Thanks for sharing.

Do you know how the input and output work?
Is there an input for yout device and an output for your IEM?
[/quote]
Correct!

[mcnach]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1484909941' post='3219566']
In fact, thinking about this, you could fashion your own with a small mixer and something like a Palmer PDI09 (enables you to take a balanced feed from a speaker feed).
[/quote]

Hmmm... I have to investigate.

I was even thinking of something like what Dood suggested in another thread... and mix my Zoom H2 onstage to capture the ambience and general band sound, with the headphone output of my OmniCabSim, as a rudimentary IEM test. On my main band I use a tiny pedalboard that is generally either on top of my amp or on the floor by my cab on the side, so I may be able to set it all up with minimum fuss and cabling.

It's not going to be anything like what you guys get... but all too often it gets too noisy on the stages I play, and earplugs protect me but I sometimes can't hear much, and I don't want to make things harder by just turning up up my amp onstage since it generally just makes things worse... I don't really want to be wired, but maybe that is enough to give me a more enjoyable experience and meanwhile I keep learning so that I can decide what I really need, as a decent IEM system, wireless, is not exactly cheap.

[pete.young]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1484985763' post='3220138']
Correct!
[/quote]
So if this works, would I be right in thinking that you wouldn't need to spend lots of money on expensive ear buds with multiple drivers, because you wouldn't need to reproduce the bass frequencies with in ears?

[Owen]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1484962039' post='3220105']
I've bought one... but for those that are kinda sold on the idea too, I've posted this so you have the opportunity to get in on the cheaper price. Of course, when I get it when they are shipped, I'll give it my full appraisal.
[/quote]

I'm in.

[EBS_freak]

You would still need multidrivers for your ears. This goes you feel not note definition.

[LukeFRC]

So ive used my ue900s a few times now - practice and live - and it's a revelation. Mainly I can hear everything, I can run quieter and I can play better in time.
i like.

[EBS_freak]

Sounds like a big success then!

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1485350624' post='3223304']
Sounds like a big success then!
[/quote]
Definatly - I think I had the bonus that a lot of folk don' have of having a setup to play through designed for IEM so that hurdle wasn't there for me. But it's so good - in my case I'm a little at the mercy of the sound guy but it still is really nice way to play. I can get what I want, these headphones mean I can actually hear everything and yeah I'm chuffed.
I'm not 100% I'm getting the best seal, but the more I use them the bigger the bottom end seems to get (oddly) - I got a bargain but easily worth £170. Recommended

[EBS_freak]

You may/may not find this interesting. Think we've covered most of it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3CDoE1jaWQ

[Painy]

After my recent thread thread asking for suggestions for IEM earphones on a budget I ended up buying a set of MEE Audio M6 Pro IEMs which cost under £40 delivered from Amazon.
It was suggested I put something in here about how I got on with them and having gigged with them for the first time last night these are my thoughts.
Straight away I'd say if you are on a really tight budget, as I am, then I would recommend these very highly.
They are, as you'd obviously expect at this price point, just a single driver but the clarity and separation in the sound was really very good indeed. As a vocalist, your voice resonating through your jaw bone into your ears when blocking them is a very muffled sound but these are really crisp and clear in the highs which I found compensated for that nicely. Even if you don't sing though I still found the sound of the rest of the instruments, including my bass, coming through nice and clear too but also full sounding in the lows.
The only issue I found to be honest was that the standard silicone tips I was using occasionally popped out a bit (the medium size Comply foam tips it also came with are too small for my BFG size lugs). I might get some of large size to try them out but I'm thinking more of getting custom molds done anyway once I can afford it. Other than that I found them really comfortable to wear with the memory wire loops over my ears.
Overall, a massive improvement over the normal Sennheiser earphones I had been using and for very little cost. This morning I'm just enjoying the fact that I don't feel like my ears are stuffed with cotton wool after a really good gig last night.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Painy

[colleya]

I've been using the M6 pro for a while and I agree about the fit. I've just ordered the UE900 so hopefully I'll be able to report back with a bit of a comparison.

[mcnach]

[quote name='colleya' timestamp='1486308497' post='3230746']
I've been using the M6 pro for a while and I agree about the fit. I've just ordered the UE900 so hopefully I'll be able to report back with a bit of a comparison.
[/quote]

I got the UE900 this past week.
I haven't yet tried them in anger. They seem very well made, and listening to music through them wasn't a great experience (the £35 dual driver Xiaomi Pro HD are nicer), but I suspect they'll be good for monitoring, which is what they're designed for, I suppose. Playing bass through my OmniCabSim and the UE900 it sounded very clear and the earphones seem to cope with low frequencies much better than the Xiaomi... then the Xiaomi sounded a lot more pleasant. With the Xiaomi a Precision bass sounded nice and funky, with the UE900 it sounded like I'd have no trouble picking it up in a mix, and I'd hear every little scrape and every little extraneous noise I make, removing the illusion that I play better than I actually do.

can't wait to try them properly

[andytoad]

So good IEM's a must, if you were to go wired, what would be a good (balancing off cost and acceptable quality) set up?

[colleya]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1486309574' post='3230759']

....the Xiaomi sounded a lot more pleasant.
[/quote]

I think there probably will be a period of adjustment, like when I first got a proper HD telly. Took me about three weeks to get used to how good the picture was, it looked very weird for a while.

[mcnach]

[quote name='colleya' timestamp='1486311234' post='3230787']
I think there probably will be a period of adjustment, like when I first got a proper HD telly. Took me about three weeks to get used to how good the picture was, it looked very weird for a while.
[/quote]

possibly, and they do take a few hours to 'burn in'... but it was the drums that sounded worse to me... just lacking a bit of punch compared to what I was expecting. A bit 'muffled' and distant in a way. I need to try them properly, and also make sure the buds I choose are the correct fit as that makes a huge difference.

[colleya]

I normally get a decent amount of drums through the drummer's headset and bass drum mics. We don't do the full mix through the PA for time/kit/mixing skill (mine) reasons so I just need my vox, a bit of bass and kick drum and background levels of everything else. Given that I'm never more than 20 feet from the guitarist on the other side of the stage the effect is similar to wearing plugs with a bit more me to help me pitch backing vocals.

[colleya]

[quote name='andytoad' timestamp='1486310687' post='3230779']
So good IEM's a must, if you were to go wired, what would be a good (balancing off cost and acceptable quality) set up?
[/quote]

I've used a Fischer stick with a combi instrument/xlr cable which was fine apart from two things - it's pretty low volume and only mono. If I was doing it again I'd use a bodypack that amplified the signal from the desk. However if you can deal with the issues then I may well be selling that setup once I've had a chance to try my new wireless one tomorrow.

[mcnach]

[quote name='andytoad' timestamp='1486310687' post='3230779']
So good IEM's a must, if you were to go wired, what would be a good (balancing off cost and acceptable quality) set up?
[/quote]

I am not an expert, as I am testing the water myself, so don't take my word as "this is what you need" but rather the approach I'm taking, in case it gives you ideas.

I paln to go wired to start with. The heart of it all is a small Behringer UB1002 mixer I had for ages. It was about 40-50 quid when I bought it new. That's on an old pedalboard case I don't use anymore. The output goes into a Behringer P1 personal headphone amplifier attached to my persona. That's purely so that I can control volume directly on me, plus it has a built-in limiter, and then the earphone cable is not trailing to the mixer but neatly tucked under my shirt so it won't get in the way: small cables are problematic, bigger thicker ones not so much. As earphones I'll be using the UE900 because I hear great reviews about them, but I'd try the Xiaomi if I didn't have those as they do sound pretty decent even if they don't seem as robust when it comes to bass.

The bass gets into the mixer via an OmniCabSim pedal, purely because it simulates a cab and you get a more pleasant sound with it. I'd use the "Thru" to get into my amp, but the output into the mixer. You could plug in directly to the mixer or via DI or whatever else. That's not complicated.

Now, the tricky part is getting the band sound into the mixer. I have three options.
One, I get a line out directly from the desk (or from a monitor, if we have active wedges, which in some places we do).
Two, if a line out is not available, I can try to capture the feed to a monitor. For that I got an Art X-Direct (around £20-25) DI box. It can take a speaker level signal (I'll need a speakon to jack adaptor) into the box, pass the 'thru' signal into the monitor (using another jack to speakon adaptor), and take the output of the box to the mixer. The quality of the sound is still to be checked. It may be a little harsh. The mixer has basic 3-band EQ that can help make it ok. Using some kind of speaker cab simulation might be good. I considered the Palmer PDI09 DI box as it does a good cab simulation, but it was around £80 compared to £20 so I figured I'd give it a try and having a DI box in the bag is never a bad idea anyway.
Three... I have a Zoom H2 recorder. It's pretty decent, and you can prime it to record and just use its microphones to capture ambience. Not ideal, but if you're really stuck, it'll give you something that will not be worse than the kind of mush you can get in a terribly loud stage when things go crazy (as they do sometimes, and which prompted me to take action as I want to hear what's going on and not hurt my ears). It can be good to have that in addition to the line out mix from the desk (or monitor). So I'd actually combine 1+3 or 2+3.

But I haven't yet tried it... I need to get a couple more cables and fit it all into my board for easy transport and connection.

That's just my approach. Of course if you have other ideas I'd be glad to hear

[EBS_freak]

mcnach - interesting approach, I'm very interested to see what your results are like - especially with no cab sim on the end of that monitor feed.

As an alternative... and I've talked about these in the thread before... but if you haven't considered, it may be worth while getting one or more of these if you start to get serious about your monitoring when you are utilising a third party front of house.

One of these

https://www.studiospares.com/Microphones/Splitter-Combiners/Studiospares-RED800-Mic-Splitter_458950.htm

and say a cheaper digital mixer such as -

XR12 (will give you 2 auxes and a l/r mix that can be used for monitoring) or a XR16 will give you 4 auxes and a l/r mix (that can also be used for monitoring)

will enable you to plug your band into your monitoring rig and send a replication of whats on the XLRs to the front of house from the splitter. This will give every band member their own mix that is controllable from your android/iphone/pc

A cheap 8 way snake from thomanns will plug your splitter into the foh box. If you need more than 8 channels on your monitoring, you can always double up your splitter and snakes... but obviously you are limited to the number of channels your digital mixer can take.