In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1486315429' post='3230825']
possibly, and they do take a few hours to 'burn in'... but it was the drums that sounded worse to me... just lacking a bit of punch compared to what I was expecting. A bit 'muffled' and distant in a way. I need to try them properly, and also make sure the buds I choose are the correct fit as that makes a huge difference.
[/quote]
Muffled and distant does not sound right at all. Defo check that you have the right buds and no ear wax in them, which can mess with things.

[mcnach]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1486467466' post='3232001']
mcnach - interesting approach, I'm very interested to see what your results are like - especially with no cab sim on the end of that monitor feed.

As an alternative... and I've talked about these in the thread before... but if you haven't considered, it may be worth while getting one or more of these if you start to get serious about your monitoring when you are utilising a third party front of house.

One of these

[url="https://www.studiospares.com/Microphones/Splitter-Combiners/Studiospares-RED800-Mic-Splitter_458950.htm"]https://www.studiosp...tter_458950.htm[/url]

and say a cheaper digital mixer such as -

XR12 (will give you 2 auxes and a l/r mix that can be used for monitoring) or a XR16 will give you 4 auxes and a l/r mix (that can also be used for monitoring)

will enable you to plug your band into your monitoring rig and send a replication of whats on the XLRs to the front of house from the splitter. This will give every band member their own mix that is controllable from your android/iphone/pc

A cheap 8 way snake from thomanns will plug your splitter into the foh box. If you need more than 8 channels on your monitoring, you can always double up your splitter and snakes... but obviously you are limited to the number of channels your digital mixer can take.
[/quote]

This whole IEM trip is like discovering a parallel universe: it's been there all along but only now I start to catch a glimpse... and it's very interesting.
Thanks for the above. Bookmarked. I definitely need to think about that... it sounds promising but I need to sit down and digest the information (what connects where, and who gets what, and what else we need etc... There's at least three people in my band (out of 7-8) that have expressed some interest about IEM, and organising something that can easily be used by all is very atractive. The prices are not prohibitive either, so I could just buy the core equipment myself let the others connect to it while I remain the owner and in control (shared purchases are complicated)..

Your input in all this is very very helpful. Thank you!

[mcnach]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1486468766' post='3232017']
Muffled and distant does not sound right at all. Defo check that you have the right buds and no ear wax in them, which can mess with things.
[/quote]

Yes, that's why I haven't yet really 'reported' anything. I only tried it relatively quickly with one set of buds that 'looked' about right. I'll have to experiment to find the best fit. The UE900 came with a variety of buds, plus I have a bunch of others in various shapes too that are compatible, so when I have the chance I'll sit down and find the right ones for me.
When I first tried the Xiaomi I was disappointed and I even set up an EQ preset on my phone (testing them with music I know well on my phone) so that they sounded ok. With a different set of buds no EQ curve was applied and sounded nice and clear. I guess I should try those very buds on the UE900.
Soon...

[Gottastopbuyinggear]

I'm slowly working my way through this thread from the beginning, so apologies if I haven't got the the relevant bits yet, but mcnach's post has got me interested as I've been thinking about the same sort of things to try and get gradually (and cost effectively) into IEMs.

I play in a six piece pub band, drums, 2 x guitars, keys and vocals (Edit - and me, of course). At the moment only the vocals and keys go through the PA. We've only played a few gigs but have just started discussing monitoring requirements - at the moment the singer has a monitor with the FOH mix, but that means that we don't hear the keys well, the people doing BVs hear almost nothing of themselves, and the drummer has difficulty hearing anything at all over himself. More monitors (well, something like some SRM 350s) have been suggested, but realistically I think that's going to make some things more difficult with the added volume, and we usually have precious little space too. I don't think we'll be going to PA for FOH for anything but keys and vocals anytime soon.

I'd like to try out a wired (initially) IEM solution, possibly just for some of us to start (not everyone's keen) and have got acceptance that we'd need to mic the guitars to get them into the monitor mix. I'm thinking of something like Behringer P1s (I'm keen on that as it has a limiter) and perhaps the MEE M6s mentioned here as an experiment, before investing too much.

The main question I have is about the drums - what's the best approach given that we don't mic them up, and would need to buy mics in order to do so. Is some sort of ambient mic set up going to help, or would we be better with a kick mic, and maybe an overhead or two. Any suggestions of suitable budget mics would also be good.

To be clear, I'm not overly worried about spending a bit of cash as an experiment and then chucking that gear away if we want better if it turns out to be a success. We're in it for fun, not money - we're playing the occasional pub gig and leaving all the earnings in the band kitty for repairs and other kit requirement, so we can spend a bit on an experiment but I can't see us ever spending thousands on wireless gear and high end in-ears.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Gottastopbuyinggear

[EBS_freak]

Drums is easy if you want to keep it cheap - kick drum mic and overhead condenser (those small pencil sized ones - but remember that they will require phantom power from your desk. You haven't stated what desk you are running but most will send phantom power).

Pretty much anything will do... red5audio is as good as anything (if not better than most) for not a great amount of outlay... and cheap enough to mic the whole kit.

[colleya]

So, M6 pro vs UE900. Of course YMMV.

Running through an LD MEI1000, I'm probably not getting the best out of either as we don't run everything through the desk. I have my vox, a bit of bass and the kick through them. I'm using them both as out of the box in ears, no custom moulds.

Sound quality - UE900 wins. Much more detailed on listening to music on my phone, computer etc. Not as noticeable in a gig situation. Are they £140 better? I don't think so.

Fit - M6 pro for me. Smaller earpiece stays put better. The UE are bigger and heavier. I've tried different tips but they still wiggle loose more easily when playing.

So I'm still undecided, I'll probably persist with the UEs and experiment with desk settings to see if I can fine tune to make the most of them. However, the M6 pro are a fine choice for someone like me playing the Dog and Doris once a month, if only I had more willpower......

[EBS_freak]

[url="https://www.studiospares.com/Headphones-and-Speakers/Headphone-Amps-and-Splitters/Studiospares-HA20-Headphone-Amp_449760.htm"]https://www.studiosp...-Amp_449760.htm[/url]

Noticed that the Millennium Thomann headphone amp (clearly a Chinese rebranded operation) has appeared at Studiospares in a nice natty red colour.

£47.40+postage from Studiospares, £38.64 from Thomann - there may be some savings in going via Studiospares on the postage front and the fact you'll get it quicker and you'll (I would have thought) get a proper three pronged adapter. Who knows, I haven't worked it out.

EDIT : Noticed a change in the headphone output size between the two. 6.35mm (Studiospares) vs 3.5mm (Thomann), so would need to factor that in if you are looking at headphone extension cables and the like.

Probably worth mentioning that if you are running from an aux (or two for stereo) on your desk, make sure you run balanced (XLR or TRS jack) so get the correct leads - especially for long runs between the desk and the headphone amp. ALL IEM feeds should be balanced as you want to minimise the signal loss/degradation.

Edited March 13, 2017 by EBS_freak

[MarshallBTB]

Hoping this is the best place to ask...
My main band (weddings, functions, big parties etc) are thinking about going with in ears and no Amps. Lead vocalist already uses in ears (shure psm300 & 215's), and the drummer has in ears with his click tracks and bits already.
The rest of us are looking at the EW300 G3, and after reading through this thread I'm looking at the UE900s for the ear buds.
Desk wise, we'll be upgrading to the A&H Qu24 so we should be good to go right?
I think we've got it right, just curious to get a more experienced users opinion .
Thanks !

Edited March 14, 2017 by MarshallBTB

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='MarshallBTB' timestamp='1489476790' post='3257157']
Hoping this is the best place to ask...
My main band (weddings, functions, big parties etc) are thinking about going with in ears and no Amps. Lead vocalist already uses in ears (shure psm300 & 215's), and the drummer has in ears with his click tracks and bits already.
The rest of us are looking at the EW300 G3, and after reading through this thread I'm looking at the UE900s for the ear buds.
Desk wise, we'll be upgrading to the A&H Qu24 so we should be good to go right?
I think we've got it right, just curious to get a more experienced users opinion .
Thanks !
[/quote]
That will be a nice setup. The A&H Qus are very capable desks.

You don't say if you are using any other wireless or how many band members that you have but if your singer is using a PSM300 in channel 70 you are only likely to be able to get another 2 EW300s (assuming stereo) in the same bit of spectrum and staying legal without running into intermod problems. If there are a lot of you, you probably want to be looking at ch 38 with a license.

I would go with the EW300s over the PSM300 for the flexibility in the RF alone. You have to dig deeper and get the PSM900 to get the same level of tuning available to you as the EW300.

If you are running other wireless (including guitar wireless, wireless mics etc), its not just a case of adding more and more and giving them unique frequencies - frequencies have to play nicely with each other and to do that, you need to co-ordinate your frequencies gear properly.

[MarshallBTB]

Ok then, to be honest i hadn't really thought about that side of it, possibly having too much wireless going on.
We are a 5 peice, lead vocals / occasional guitar ( running wireless guitar, wireless mic, wireless in ears), guitar (wireless guitar atm, just purchased a kemper so wants to go wireless in ears as well), myself (wireless bass, also wanting wireless in ears), keyboard player who will also want wireless in ears as he handles some of the guitar duties as well, and drummer who has a wired set up at the moment.
Not sure off the top of my head the details of everyone else, i know the guitarist is using quite an old sennheiser system. I'm using the smoothhound classic at the moment and the other guitar system is a line 6 g70.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='MarshallBTB' timestamp='1489504139' post='3257493']
Ok then, to be honest i hadn't really thought about that side of it, possibly having too much wireless going on.
We are a 5 peice, lead vocals / occasional guitar ( running wireless guitar, wireless mic, wireless in ears), guitar (wireless guitar atm, just purchased a kemper so wants to go wireless in ears as well), myself (wireless bass, also wanting wireless in ears), keyboard player who will also want wireless in ears as he handles some of the guitar duties as well, and drummer who has a wired set up at the moment.
Not sure off the top of my head the details of everyone else, i know the guitarist is using quite an old sennheiser system. I'm using the smoothhound classic at the moment and the other guitar system is a line 6 g70.
[/quote]


You can throw a 2.4/5 Ghz router for your desk into that mix too!

If you are looking at running a lot of wireless, you are safer going for channel 38 for your EW300s. As a ballpark figure, in channel 70, if you are running the same kit (e.g. identical wireless mics) you can typically get 4 devices in that part of the spectrum. If you are looking at channel 38, you are looking at anywhere between 8 and 12. All this assumes that you have fairly clean rf around you. (You can run equipment in both channels, they aren't exclusive) If you haven't, expect this figure to drop further. Of course this can vary from venue to venue... especially wedding venues where the venue may have their own wireless mics running.

As for your digital devices that are running in the 2.4ghz/5ghz range... you can add a router into the mix as you are likely wanting one of those to be doing you IEM mixes from your iphones/ipads etc. In typical situations, these devices will all find their way nicely without running into intermod issues with the devices in channel 38/70... you are likely to have more issues if you play in a conference centre/hotel with loads of wifi access points - but as long as you are prepared to drop down to wired, you are safe against that.

Don't be put off though - it's possible - this is what I am running -

4x Sennheiser EW500 Mic
1x Sennheiser EW300 Mic
1x Shure ULXD Mic

4x Sennheiser EW300 IEM
2x Shure PSM900 IEM

1xAirport Extreme
1xSony DWZB30GB
1xLine6 G90

15 in total all running within the law - So 12 crammed between 38 and 70 - I have one unit in the 823-832 range (which is covered by the channel 38 license). Getting all those to work is a right pain in the arse... but I can just about do it reliably, with no drop outs. I have another EW300 mic... I can not get that into the fold reliably at the moment... I start getting drop outs or interference.

The other thing I will mention, only because you've mentioned it - the latency on the smooth hound is really high and not great for use in inears environments where there is a lot of digital kit around. You are running 8ms latency from the smooth hound alone, then another 1ms through the desk (A&H are actually one of the lowest latency desks out there in this area of the market)... in addition to any latency from any digital pedals that you may be running. The latency is certainly getting into the noticeable range if you are on inears, especially if you vocals are going through a digital chain. A smooth hound through a Kemper would be disaster - the end to end latency figures would certainly be between 11ms and 15ms depending upon what you are doing with the Kemper - very noticeable. Ideally you want to be less than 10ms as a benchmark. Many people will notice 10ms latency in their playing. If the guitarist is currently using an analogue Sennheiser, the latency figures are negligible - way less than 1ms so won't be a problem... but could be if he was looking to move to certain digital wireless in the future. The G70 is pretty low and latency also - I think the end to end with D/A conversion is circa 3ms.

Should point out, I'm expecting you to be running stuff in channel 70 and/or channel 38 with additional radio in 2.4/5Ghz as these are the radio frequencies you are free to use as you travel around the country. The reason that you see other people using a load more gear is that they will have co-ordinated licenses for a venue or an event... that you have to co-ordinate use of... completely impractical and expensive for what you are doing! I love my wireless... but it does add headaches sometimes...! Good luck... and just drop a line here if you have any queries.

All my wireless inears are stereo - but I've got wired feeds going to some players too - like the percussionist and drummer who don't tend to move around so much.

Edited March 16, 2017 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1489402923' post='3256552']
<SNIP>
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Noticed that the Millennium Thomann headphone amp (clearly a Chinese rebranded operation) has appeared at Studiospares in a nice natty red colour....[/font][/color]
</SNIP>
[/quote]

As a continuation of this, I've now bought one... and one of these -



so the headphone amp can be mounted for the drummer/percussionist via one of the many stands they seem to have hanging around in their general area. Anybody interested in doing anything similar, the above is a K&M KM238. PS - you will also need a 3/8" to 5/8" thread converter if you are planning to use with the above headphone amp. Hope this helps somebody - probably easier for a drummer to be able to reach for the volume knob on this thing as opposed to a wired/wireless pack on their body.

Also, you probably want to but a headphone extension cable unless the drummers headphone cable is really long...

Edited March 21, 2017 by EBS_freak

[Dood]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1490090356' post='3262013']
As a continuation of this, I've now bought one... and one of these -



so the headphone amp can be mounted for the drummer/percussionist via one of the many stands they seem to have hanging around in their general area. Anybody interested in doing anything similar, the above is a K&M KM238. PS - you will also need a 3/8" to 5/8" thread converter if you are planning to use with the above headphone amp. Hope this helps somebody - probably easier for a drummer to be able to reach for the volume knob on this thing as opposed to a wired/wireless pack on their body.
[/quote]

Here's what I've just bought that I clamp to my iPad holder. They both then attach to any stand going:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162265553533?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Dood]

Just found a cheaper one with a larger size jaw on the clamp: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/W-Handlebar-Camera-Seatpost-Clamp-Roll-Bar-Mount-Mounting-Adapter-f-GoPro-Hero/262836994474?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D2220072%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3Dbcd67f95626b41dbab911ebec05c9207%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D162265553533

[EBS_freak]

Dood! My OCD would drive me mad if the headphone amp was on it's side!

[Dood]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1490090870' post='3262022']
Dood! My OCD would drive me mad if the headphone amp was on it's side!
[/quote]

Ahh yes, I've just measured the distance from what would the the edge of the stand to the adjustable joint on my clamp and it looks like it just falls short of the midway point of that H/P amp. - I could be wrong mind!

[Dood]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1490090870' post='3262022']
Dood! My OCD would drive me mad if the headphone amp was on it's side!
[/quote]



Doesn't look like much spare room ha ha! - my devices are slim and tall in comparison so I hadn't taken that in to consideration!

[EBS_freak]

Dood - do you mount your Fischer stick on that? Or did you go with something different?

[Dood]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1490128337' post='3262496']
Dood - do you mount your Fischer stick on that? Or did you go with something different?
[/quote]

Ah! ha ha!

No, I should have said.. Fischer stick goes on my belt. Love that thing! Especially being able to drive a stereo or mono signal down a single XLR cable locked in place. Plenty of steam for driving BIG earphones too.

Anyway, I digress. I mount a Zoom H2n on it (thread to be created on that soon). Previously either a Q8 or H1. Great for recording but, as you'll have spotted in another thread, makes for a great personal ambient monitor too!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1490135816' post='3262609']
Ah! ha ha!

No, I should have said.. Fischer stick goes on my belt. Love that thing! Especially being able to drive a stereo or mono signal down a single XLR cable locked in place. Plenty of steam for driving BIG earphones too.

[/quote]

I'm guessing thats unbalanced if you are doing stereo down a single XLR?

[Dood]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1490141813' post='3262669']


I'm guessing thats unbalanced if you are doing stereo down a single XLR?
[/quote]

In stereo mode yes indeed. R/L/Gnd. Shielded cable still and zero noise.

[EBS_freak]

Not bad. My purchases should land today so shall update - not that it's going to be particularly exciting!

[EBS_freak]

Here is the link to this headphone amp at Studiospares. [url="https://www.studiospares.com/Headphones-and-Speakers/Headphone-Amps-and-Splitters/Studiospares-HA20-Headphone-Amp_449760.htm"]https://www.studiosp...-Amp_449760.htm[/url]

This is a perfect companion for somebody wanting to use OBBM's IEM/instrument combo cable and wants to have a headphone amp next to their bass amplifier. Link to OBBMs magic cable is here - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/303154-obbms-rock-wire-iem-monitor-cables/"]http://basschat.co.u...monitor-cables/[/url]

The combination of both is probably one of the cheapest ways to get a good, solid, usable solution - without cables trailing everywhere.

Comments on this headphone amp - It's a bit nicer than the Millenium HPA... and the K&M attachment should be just the ticket to mount to a stand somewhere (e.g. for a drummer, percussionist, mic stand whatever!

PS - if you have come here from the affiliates section (OBBM's cable) and interested in getting into IEMs, get reading from the start... all your questions and more will be answered. Edited March 29, 2017 by EBS_freak

[Gunsfreddy2003]

We have just invested in an Allen & Heath QU 16 desk so very tempted now to invest in the A&H ME-1 as the solution for my IEM. Has anyone used one of these and can give any feedback/experience?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' timestamp='1490287885' post='3263997']
We have just invested in an Allen &amp; Heath QU 16 desk so very tempted now to invest in the A&amp;H ME-1 as the solution for my IEM. Has anyone used one of these and can give any feedback/experience?
[/quote]

They are fabulous - used them with my GLD80 - although they are still £430 (they were more than that when they came out) and if you haven't got a requirement not to use the auxes on the desk, I'd still be tempted to do your mix via an iPad.

The ME1 is a nice piece of hardware but only really comes into it's own if you want to run loads of them. I think on YouTube theres a video where each symphony orchestra member has their own mix controllable via their own ME-1. For that, it's absolutely brilliant.

If you do get one, it's going to lock you into the A&H ecosystem - and you are still wired after £430 quids worth of investment. If you haven't got an iPad things may be different... but in that case, I'd be tempted to go down CeX and buy a used iPad for for circa £150.

My advice, save the cash and buy an EW300 then you can use it on other desks.

But if you don't, the ME1 is ace regardless.



Just gone through phone - keyboard player here with the aforementioned.

Edited March 23, 2017 by EBS_freak