In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[Owen]

Not wanting to turn this into a QUmix fest, but is there any way of using more than on tablet (ipad, phone or whatever)? I cannot manage it. I used a Mackie DL for a couple of years and it will run up to 10 tablets. So useful

[Danj]

Just would like to add a big public thank you to Russ (EBS Freak) for his help on PM.

Really appreciated - one question and response and he cuts through all the confusion and options with some common sense IEM wisdom!

Cheers
Dan

[Gunsfreddy2003]

How does the iPad mixing work then? I've got two so no problem on that front!

For me the real attraction with the ME 1 is the built in ambient mics. Being wired is not a massive issue for me.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1490292726' post='3264066']


They are fabulous - used them with my GLD80 - although they are still £430 (they were more than that when they came out) and if you haven't got a requirement not to use the auxes on the desk, I'd still be tempted to do your mix via an iPad.

The ME1 is a nice piece of hardware but only really comes into it's own if you want to run loads of them. I think on YouTube theres a video where each symphony orchestra member has their own mix controllable via their own ME-1. For that, it's absolutely brilliant.

If you do get one, it's going to lock you into the A&H ecosystem - and you are still wired after £430 quids worth of investment. If you haven't got an iPad things may be different... but in that case, I'd be tempted to go down CeX and buy a used iPad for for circa £150.

My advice, save the cash and buy an EW300 then you can use it on other desks.

But if you don't, the ME1 is ace regardless.



Just gone through phone - keyboard player here with the aforementioned.
[/quote]

[Gunsfreddy2003]

Amen to that - big love for Mr H.

[quote name='Danj' timestamp='1490294296' post='3264087']
Just would like to add a big public thank you to Russ (EBS Freak) for his help on PM.

Really appreciated - one question and response and he cuts through all the confusion and options with some common sense IEM wisdom!

Cheers
Dan
[/quote]

[Owen]

Download the qmix app for nothing and mess with it. You will need a router to provide the signal. It is the qumix on your screen.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1490293453' post='3264078']
Not wanting to turn this into a QUmix fest, but is there any way of using more than on tablet (ipad, phone or whatever)? I cannot manage it. I used a Mackie DL for a couple of years and it will run up to 10 tablets. So useful
[/quote]
You should be able to just keep connecting. I seem to recall it does 8 but only 2 iPads concurrently. At one point it was only 1 iPad and that was it - I think it was to urge people to go for the GLD.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Danj' timestamp='1490294296' post='3264087']
Just would like to add a big public thank you to Russ (EBS Freak) for his help on PM.

Really appreciated - one question and response and he cuts through all the confusion and options with some common sense IEM wisdom!

Cheers
Dan
[/quote]
No problem - glad to help. I just want to be able to help people get to their end game in the cheapest way possible. I've spent far too much money in this IEM game and any way that I can help others is a pleasure!

Edited March 24, 2017 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' timestamp='1490296799' post='3264125']
How does the iPad mixing work then? I've got two so no problem on that front!

For me the real attraction with the ME 1 is the built in ambient mics. Being wired is not a massive issue for me.
[/quote]
The app basically gives you a gui with a load of sliders so you can control the mixer remotely. Mimics what's on the desk - if you move the sliders on the iPad, they move on the desk and vice versa.

Download it and give it a go. There's a monitor app that gives you access to the auxes from you iPhone. (If you have one)

As for ambient mics - a couple of Behringer C2 condensers for less than 50 quid. Sorted. Of course you could spend more but for ambient mics who cares?

For just over a hundred quid, you can run a studiospares headphone and an a couple of condensers and control the mix from your iPad.

Edited March 24, 2017 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Gunsfreddy2003' timestamp='1490296838' post='3264126']
Amen to that - big love for Mr H.
[/quote]
I'm blushing!

[Owen]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1490303504' post='3264220']
You should be able to just keep connecting. I seem to recall it does 8 but only 2 iPads concurrently. At one point it was only 1 iPad and that was it - I think it was to urge people to go for the GLD.
[/quote]

I will have to update to the latest software then!

Thanks

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1490305480' post='3264248']
I will have to update to the latest software then!

Thanks
[/quote]
Sounds like it - I did some reading last night. The original firmware only allowed for one iPad to be connected. If you update the firmware, it seems that you can use two ipads simultaneously running QuPad. You can connect a further 6 iPhones/iPod Touch for using QuYou (monitor mix). It looks like you can also connect QuControl but I don't know how useful to you that will be. Seems like the desk knows that you are running QuPad and the software has a coded limit on the number of iPad connections to the desk. (Sucks a little)

Also worth a mention, you can use Android for monitor mixes (there's a QuYou app) - and although unsupported by A&H, theres https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.davidgiga1993.mixingstation.ah_qu (limited to 1 connection) and https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=phone.TouchAndMix - but I know very little about the latter as I'm an Apple guy.

[Danj]

I made it to the end of the thread!

On that basis here is my dodgy picture of the wired IEM solution I am setting up based on my conversation with Russ the main man:

https://s3.postimg.org/xu7pccbn7/IMG_1193.jpg

I still haven't figured out how to embed it as an image, but it's all good....

Forgive the dubious mixing of single/double cables - I was mainly trying to ensure I had a complete circuit so I know what needs to be ordered!

Cheers
Dan

[Danj]

p.s. Clearly there will be a main out to the PA as well!

[EBS_freak]

As an alternative to TRS to XLR, you may consider using an adapter like this - http://www.ipswichpa.co.uk/trs-jack-to-xlr-male-adaptor-7855-201-p.asp

That way you can standardise nose of your cables to XLR to XLR. No difference to the XLR to TRS in the grand scheme of things though.

[obbm]

At last I have a solution for combo IEM cables.



See Affiliates section for more information.

[Owen]

Link to the obbm goodness.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/303154-obbms-rock-wire-iem-monitor-cables/"]http://basschat.co.u...monitor-cables/[/url]

Edited March 29, 2017 by owen

[mcnach]

[quote name='obbm' timestamp='1490779173' post='3267824']
At last I have a solution for combo IEM cables.



See Affiliates section for more information.
[/quote]


Oooh! Is that a combined stereo feed from the mixer and instrument cable in one?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1490780996' post='3267853']
Oooh! Is that a combined stereo feed from the mixer and instrument cable in one?
[/quote]
That would be it.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='obbm' timestamp='1490779173' post='3267824']
At last I have a solution for combo IEM cables.



See Affiliates section for more information.
[/quote]
I thought that you had this nailed for a while? Anyway, great work. I'm sure that this will go someway in helping everybody make the move to IEM solutions.

I bought a real of hybrid multicore off eBay - never found out who made the cable though - and OBBM is a much better at soldering than I am... so this is defo the route I shall take if I need a cable. I have never had one of his cables die on me... (probably because they are soldered properly unlike other guys/mass produced machine tagged solder joints).

Now we just need to find a tiny headphone amp that will take up next to zero room on a pedal board... EDIT - something like this - https://www.gak.co.uk/en/electro-harmonix-headphone-amp/70768

...but in stereo. (I can't find anything that states that is accepts a stereo input)

Edited March 29, 2017 by EBS_freak

[mcnach]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1490781909' post='3267865']
That would be it.
[/quote]

I *want*!!!!

Right, post-it note made to remind me about this

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Danj' timestamp='1490399924' post='3264973']

On that basis here is my dodgy picture of the wired IEM solution I am setting up based on my conversation with Russ the main man:

[url="https://s3.postimg.org/xu7pccbn7/IMG_1193.jpg"]https://s3.postimg.o...n7/IMG_1193.jpg[/url]
[/quote]
Dan - I would highly recommend changing the IEM/Instrument hybrid cables in your solution to OBBMs - OBBMs headphone cable is not made with moulded jacks and sockets for a start, so if you do have an issue, you have more of a chance of a decent repair without losing cable length.

[EBS_freak]

I was talking to somebody about their potential IEM solution - they were looking for 5 individual mixes (preferably stereo) from an analogue desk. When they told me what the desk was (Soundcraft FX16ii) I told them that they'd be lucky given the number of auxes they had to play with. I did notice that this particular mixer had direct outs for all the 16 channels and suggested that they could get an extra mix by submixing to another mixer... but it would all be a bit Macgyver.



But then I remembered seeing some products a good free years ago... (cleared ripped from Aviom! - true Behringer style..)

So if you are one of these guys that don't want to go digital but want to explore IEMs further, I remembered that if you have a desk with direct outputs as above, then there is the nifty P16-i from Behringer for just short of 200 notes.

Then, you can get up to 6 P16Ms to plug into it. Cheaper than a load of ipads/android devices but still gives you remote control over individual mixes from an analogue mixing desk source.

And if you do turn to digital, there is an immediate upgrade path to the XR18 or X32 (the P16-I would then become obsolete)

Just a thought to ponder on.

The Aviom system is an alternative also - but would cost a substantial amount more - about double for the mixers and £750 for the input module... but if you go digital, its Dante so if your digital desk allows for that (usually a plug in card) ... then that is the sex. (For a small band however, this is still something that can be achieved with a desk with a high aux count)

[MarshallBTB]

First go of in ears at practice last night... Awesome !
Kit wasn't mic'd but had kick as that's triggered for us anyway.
Still a bit of learning/adjusting to do with the QU24 but so far so good.
Enjoying the UE900s as well, not that I have anything to compare them to but the sound was nice and clear.
Only thing I would like to improve is the fit; the smallest foam buds are too big for me and the smallest silicone are slightly too small, so stood up and moving a bit there's a little bit of leak.

So far so good though, can't wait to gig it.

It's not been cheap but I was planning on getting a new cab(s), this seems to make more sense given the gigs we do.



[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1489508768' post='3257537']



You can throw a 2.4/5 Ghz router for your desk into that mix too!

If you are looking at running a lot of wireless, you are safer going for channel 38 for your EW300s. As a ballpark figure, in channel 70, if you are running the same kit (e.g. identical wireless mics) you can typically get 4 devices in that part of the spectrum. If you are looking at channel 38, you are looking at anywhere between 8 and 12. All this assumes that you have fairly clean rf around you. (You can run equipment in both channels, they aren't exclusive) If you haven't, expect this figure to drop further. Of course this can vary from venue to venue... especially wedding venues where the venue may have their own wireless mics running.

As for your digital devices that are running in the 2.4ghz/5ghz range... you can add a router into the mix as you are likely wanting one of those to be doing you IEM mixes from your iphones/ipads etc. In typical situations, these devices will all find their way nicely without running into intermod issues with the devices in channel 38/70... you are likely to have more issues if you play in a conference centre/hotel with loads of wifi access points - but as long as you are prepared to drop down to wired, you are safe against that.

Don't be put off though - it's possible - this is what I am running -

4x Sennheiser EW500 Mic
1x Sennheiser EW300 Mic
1x Shure ULXD Mic

4x Sennheiser EW300 IEM
2x Shure PSM900 IEM

1xAirport Extreme
1xSony DWZB30GB
1xLine6 G90

15 in total all running within the law - So 12 crammed between 38 and 70 - I have one unit in the 823-832 range (which is covered by the channel 38 license). Getting all those to work is a right pain in the arse... but I can just about do it reliably, with no drop outs. I have another EW300 mic... I can not get that into the fold reliably at the moment... I start getting drop outs or interference.

The other thing I will mention, only because you've mentioned it - the latency on the smooth hound is really high and not great for use in inears environments where there is a lot of digital kit around. You are running 8ms latency from the smooth hound alone, then another 1ms through the desk (A&H are actually one of the lowest latency desks out there in this area of the market)... in addition to any latency from any digital pedals that you may be running. The latency is certainly getting into the noticeable range if you are on inears, especially if you vocals are going through a digital chain. A smooth hound through a Kemper would be disaster - the end to end latency figures would certainly be between 11ms and 15ms depending upon what you are doing with the Kemper - very noticeable. Ideally you want to be less than 10ms as a benchmark. Many people will notice 10ms latency in their playing. If the guitarist is currently using an analogue Sennheiser, the latency figures are negligible - way less than 1ms so won't be a problem... but could be if he was looking to move to certain digital wireless in the future. The G70 is pretty low and latency also - I think the end to end with D/A conversion is circa 3ms.

Should point out, I'm expecting you to be running stuff in channel 70 and/or channel 38 with additional radio in 2.4/5Ghz as these are the radio frequencies you are free to use as you travel around the country. The reason that you see other people using a load more gear is that they will have co-ordinated licenses for a venue or an event... that you have to co-ordinate use of... completely impractical and expensive for what you are doing! I love my wireless... but it does add headaches sometimes...! Good luck... and just drop a line here if you have any queries.

All my wireless inears are stereo - but I've got wired feeds going to some players too - like the percussionist and drummer who don't tend to move around so much.
[/quote]

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='MarshallBTB' timestamp='1490854183' post='3268459']
First go of in ears at practice last night... Awesome !
Kit wasn't mic'd but had kick as that's triggered for us anyway.
Still a bit of learning/adjusting to do with the QU24 but so far so good.
Enjoying the UE900s as well, not that I have anything to compare them to but the sound was nice and clear.
Only thing I would like to improve is the fit; the smallest foam buds are too big for me and the smallest silicone are slightly too small, so stood up and moving a bit there's a little bit of leak.

So far so good though, can't wait to gig it.

It's not been cheap but I was planning on getting a new cab(s), this seems to make more sense given the gigs we do.
[/quote]
re:UE900, the obvious move for perfect fit is getting them put into a custom shell... but that may not be financially viable for you at the moment? If not, it's just a case of finding the tips that fit you. For me, I could never get any that fit just right - hence my start on the customs journey. You may have more luck than me!

Sounds like you are onto a winner though. Let us know how you get on post gig.

I've often said this to people - spending money on IEM is an expensive game... but if you consider them as a cab replacement, "Bergs for your ears", the cost isn't that different really. It's just that there's less sizeable goods to show for your money! If the PA is doing the grunt work (which it should be doing anyway), it makes sense to have better monitors in your ear as opposed to volume wars with a cab... and it will clear up your bands sound greatly. (No bass leaking into open mics etc)

Edited March 30, 2017 by EBS_freak

[LiamPodmore]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1490860253' post='3268508']
I've often said this to people - spending money on IEM is an expensive game... but if you consider them as a cab replacement, "Bergs for your ears", the cost isn't that different really. It's just that there's less sizeable goods to show for your money! If the PA is doing the grunt work (which it should be doing anyway), it makes sense to have better monitors in your ear as opposed to volume wars with a cab... and it will clear up your bands sound greatly. (No bass leaking into open mics etc)
[/quote]

If i started gigging again i just wouldn't bother with the cabs at all unless i had to have one. Even for a pub/club band having a PA doing the legwork will give you a much better sound than trying to mix everyones amps.