EBS_freak Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, PaulWarning said: I've just had a couple of gigs at the weekend with IEM done on the cheap, we've got a gear4music transmitter and a couple of receivers, for me and the singer, I just set it up with 2 in ear earphones in then had to take one out to hear my bass and the band properly (replacing it with a generic ear plug) because we only have vocals going through the PA and it worked out ok I can tell a lot easier whether me and the singer are in harmony So whats the next step then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: So whats the next step then? give it a few more gigs then try and get the drummer and guitarist to get receivers and then get rid of the monitors. We really don't want to go down the route of micing everything up if that's what you mean Edited February 12, 2018 by PaulWarning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 It's only one feed per instrument - and you can do the drums in two! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: It's only one feed per instrument - and you can do the drums in two! yes but that's another 4 mics (3 if you Di the bass) and 4 more cables then balance them all, why bother when it works ok as it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Just now, PaulWarning said: yes but that's another 4 mics (3 if you Di the bass) and 4 more cables then balance them all, why bother when it works ok as it is? Because your iem sound will be much better.. and ultimately you can get rid off all the mush on stage and use your foh for volume. Your monitoring is better. The sound of your band is better. What's not to like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: Because your iem sound will be much better.. and ultimately you can get rid off all the mush on stage and use your foh for volume. Your monitoring is better. The sound of your band is better. What's not to like? we have no way of getting an individual mix, it's just extra gear to buy, store and carry around with extra set up and take down time, we just don't want to go down that road yet. I just posted my experience this weekend because I know there's other bands like us who want to keep things as simple as possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 https://www.getbackbeat.com/ Not quite the woojer, but another option. I've a feeling it could end up pricey though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Bigwan said: https://www.getbackbeat.com/ Not quite the woojer, but another option. I've a feeling it could end up pricey though... I saw this amongst the NAMM releases. There is a problem with this I can see already... for a lot of people, unless you are built like quasimodo, the transducer is not going to be in contact with your body. Unless that thing is pressed up right against your body, a great deal of kinetic energy is going to be lost - or not felt at all. For me, I think the woojer is still the winner, as you can move it around your body - for every musician I know first hand who have used it, they all put the woojer on their waist. This doesn't look like an option for those sporting a back beat. I dont like the fact that the controls would be on your back too. Personally, a picture of Victor Wooten with said product doesn't do it for me... I think I would stick with the woojer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: I saw this amongst the NAMM releases. There is a problem with this I can see already... for a lot of people, unless you are built like quasimodo, the transducer is not going to be in contact with your body. Unless that thing is pressed up right against your body, a great deal of kinetic energy is going to be lost - or not felt at all. For me, I think the woojer is still the winner, as you can move it around your body - for every musician I know first hand who have used it, they all put the woojer on their waist. This doesn't look like an option for those sporting a back beat. I dont like the fact that the controls would be on your back too. Personally, a picture of Victor Wooten with said product doesn't do it for me... I think I would stick with the woojer. I'd thought roughly the same - you would have to be wearing it very high up on the strap for it to make contact, but then it wouldn't have to be on your strap at all, you could mount it to your belt I suppose. I agree that the woojer is the more useful design. Their website is pretty awful. I thought it funny that the video of VW doesn't actually feature him endorsing the thing at all, just turning up to play it. Does more harm than good if you ask me, although their instagram page features VW a few times and Marcus too. There's a competition to win a hand built version priced at $399... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Just now, Bigwan said: I'd thought roughly the same - you would have to be wearing it very high up on the strap for it to make contact, but then it wouldn't have to be on your strap at all, you could mount it to your belt I suppose. I agree that the woojer is the more useful design. Their website is pretty awful. I thought it funny that the video of VW doesn't actually feature him endorsing the thing at all, just turning up to play it. Does more harm than good if you ask me, although their instagram page features VW a few times and Marcus too. There's a competition to win a hand built version priced at $399... Meh. I've learned that a lot of players are endorsement whores. If they can get something for free, they'll show their face, irrespective of whether they use it or not. I suspect that M and V showed a bit of interest and they capitalised on the moment and got as many vids and photos as they could. They are a startup - kinda hope they do well... but the product seems a lot less developed than the woojer... but having said that, the original woojer was a bit err... basic. Im actually trying to figure out how this system works... it may be a bit different to the woojer in that it looks like you have a Y cable from your bass - one end to your amp/di line and the other into the device? The presence of the big jack socket makes me think that. The fact that it has an aux suggests it could be used similar to a Woojer though? Haven't looked into the vids too deeply at this stage though. The biggie though - The top of your back is not really where you want to be feeling bass in my opinion. Feeling it in the pelvis is defo where I think the biggest feeling of bass is obtained. It seems to resonate around the body better there than anywhere else. The Woojer's versatility for placement scores a big win in that department.... for me at least. $399 is a lot for what it is... especially as the woojer strap is currently $149 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) There's a newer version it seems, but that's not obvious from the website, only Instagram. It has 2 jacks now (I'd guess an in and thru but there's ZERO detail), line in and headphone out... and a power supply input... Definitely prefer the look of the Woojer, but I'll watch this with interest! Still enjoying your Woojer @EBS_freak? Edited February 13, 2018 by Bigwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 The thru would be a big plus for this as that would negate the need for a monitoring feed back from a desk. If you can play at quiet volumes where monitoring is not required and still get the thump, then thats a big thumbs up. Also, would take roundtrip latency out the loop for those guys running wireless systems from their bass with horrendous latency figures. Mentioning no brands and all that. Woojer is still a big thumbs up. I'm being more sensible with it now - I was running it super strong at first but its defo a more subtle thing as you get used to it... otherwise you feel all beat off once you've finished playing. Funnily enough, I was reading into psycological effects of haptic feedback... and there's unconfirmed evidence that it can lead to panic attacks and paranoia. Who knows?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: you feel all beat off once you've finished playing. A good thing surely! It's a wonder they're not paying you for such high praise! Edited February 13, 2018 by Bigwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bigwan said: A good thing surely! It's a wonder they're not paying you for such high praise! D'oh! Maybe I shouldnt be placing it on my pelvis after all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Any chance of bringing the woojer with you to LBGS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 20 minutes ago, charic said: Any chance of bringing the woojer with you to LBGS? Certainly - but drop me a line before hand to remind me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 1 minute ago, EBS_freak said: Certainly - but drop me a line before hand to remind me! Awesome, thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikanHannille Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I have a cheap wireless idea. Perhaps it might work? I'm just waiting for the transmitter to arrive for me to be able to test. So basically the setup is like this. PA aux --> Rolls PM 50's --> TaoTronics Portable Wireless Stereo Transmitter (bluetooth) --> [bluetooth wireless] --> TaoTronics Bluetooth Earphones As I've said I haven't tried this yet as I'm still waiting for the transmitter to arrive. So I don't know what the latency is like (hopefully it's pretty good!). Only drawback is that the bluetooth earphones is not up to par with Shures or any other well known IEMs. But for the price (if it works), it's not that bad! Anybody had the same idea and tried this yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 8 hours ago, MikanHannille said: I have a cheap wireless idea. Perhaps it might work? I'm just waiting for the transmitter to arrive for me to be able to test. So basically the setup is like this. PA aux --> Rolls PM 50's --> TaoTronics Portable Wireless Stereo Transmitter (bluetooth) --> [bluetooth wireless] --> TaoTronics Bluetooth Earphones As I've said I haven't tried this yet as I'm still waiting for the transmitter to arrive. So I don't know what the latency is like (hopefully it's pretty good!). Only drawback is that the bluetooth earphones is not up to par with Shures or any other well known IEMs. But for the price (if it works), it's not that bad! Anybody had the same idea and tried this yet? Plenty of people have had this idea - the following video may explain why it's not common place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Having spent the past few days reading this entire thread (some of which I understand, some of it not ) and am looking to take my first teetering steps into the world of IEM's. The band has just invested in a new digital desk, the Line 6 Stagescape M20D that as far as I understand will offer us 4 independent monitor mixes. The drummer and keyboard player have all but moved over to IEM's now and the guitarist and myself are also looking to ditch the back-line and jump ship. There's a ton of very useful information on here, but one thing that has become apparent is that I'm, not going to be able to stretch to a high end system, but as has often been repeated, you can't do effective IEM's on the cheap so I'm realistically looking at something in the lower mid range level as a compromise between cost and sound quality. So having read through and understood what I can, I think that I'm going to go for a wired system. I plan to use my Zoom B3 as a tuner/EQ/compressor/DI. Am I right in thinking that it's as simple as plugging the bass into the B3, running an XLR from the B3's DI into the desk, then another XLR back into a headphone amp to which the IEM's are connected? Or have I missed something? In terms of the other hardware, I like the compact form factor of the Fischer in ear stick or possibly the new Behringer P2 (although according to Amazon, that's not due to hit the UK until April 2nd, and Behringer do have a certain reputation, so I'm still wondering if it's better to pay the extra for the Fischer? @dood Are you still using your Fischer in ear stick? What are your thoughts now you've lived with it for a while? Still impressed? As to the IEM's themselves, it seems that multiple drivers are the best way to help increase the low end of the signal. There's a lot of praise for the Ultimate Ears 900 so they are the current favourite. The Shure SE535's are also a potential but seem to be getting mixed reviews. I've also heard good things about the Fender FXA7's too. I'm not too worried about having CD quality sound in my ears, I've been playing with silicone plugs for 20 years or more so I'm quite used to the sense of isolation and less than perfect sound on stage. But from what I understand even a modest set up will still prove to be a revelation @EBS_freak as the official Basschat IEM oracle, does it sound like I'm on the right path here? Any thoughts, additional information and insights would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) Yup - all looking good! As you've described, that'll work for you. That will give you a perfectly serviceable setup - and it'll sound great. Edited February 17, 2018 by EBS_freak 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 19 hours ago, EBS_freak said: Yup - all looking good! As you've described, that'll work for you. That will give you a perfectly serviceable setup - and it'll sound great. Thank you I'll report back once I've made some progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Having given the whole IEM set up some thought, I'm now coming round to the idea of using a small mixing desk as an amp to drive the IEM's themselves. I think the idea has been mentioned somewhere back in the thread already. I really like the look of the Yamaha MG06 for several reasons (size, cost, HPF on 2 channels, basic eq that could possibly useful for keeping the top in check for reducing ear fatigue) the main one being that I can have independent control of my bass volume against the full band mix from the main desk without having to consult whoever is driving it at the time. I seem to think that you can also do this with some of the smaller mic amps that you can clip on your belt but some of them seem a bit on the chunky side as well as limited in features, so I like the idea of my own separate mixer. Is anyone else already doing this? How do you find it? What mixers are you using? The only thing I haven't sussed yet is what to do with the desk itself on a gig. I don't really want it on the floor as sooner or later someone will step on it. Trust me, they will . I'm currently thinking of something like a mic stand iPad clamp/holder thingy or possibly a music stand with the main the desk part horizontal and a strip of Velcro to secure the desk. Anyone have any ideas how best to tackle this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xzodar Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I’m using a Rolls PM351 as my headphone amp with mic, bass and monitor mix independently adjustable. The use a combined guitar/IEM cable from OBBM to get the mix in my ears. an MG06X would do a similar job though I suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, xzodar said: I’m using a Rolls PM351 as my headphone amp with mic, bass and monitor mix independently adjustable. The use a combined guitar/IEM cable from OBBM to get the mix in my ears. an MG06X would do a similar job though I suspect. The Rolls device is great as it lets you tweak your mix locally without going over to your desk. If you are in the world of digital desks, then the preferable option would be to remote control from a tablet... for @Osiris and their Line6 desk, I wouldn't bother with an external desk to power my headphones. I would just get a decent headphone amp and make sure I have a tablet as the "Monitors view" on the Line 6 desk gives you a Hi Pass, Limiter and EQ for the aux - which is going to be a lot more powerful than just the 2 band EQ on the Yamaha. I would agree that the PM351 is a pretty cool solution for analogue desks (although it hasn't got the EQ functionality of the Yamaha). A bit different to the Yamaha desk as it gives you the "through" functionality so you can tap off "more me" feeds before it gets to the desk. I think that this is what @Osiris is trying to achieve... but you won't be able to do that natively with the Yamaha as it has no throughs or monitor sends to do this. That Yamaha is a great little mixer - my O/H uses one for her Spin classes. Edited February 20, 2018 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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