In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[Osiris]

The Custom IEM company have a few ex-demo universal IEM's for sale, but you need to be quick as the offer ends at 1 p.m. today, 29th March. 

http://www.custom-inearmonitors.co.uk/offers.html

[LukeFRC]

So I use UE 900s - which are good - but I've used up all the foam tips and need to get more. 

First any recommendations, and secondly is this man on YouTube stupid or clever? 

 

[mrtcat]

42 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

So I use UE 900s - which are good - but I've used up all the foam tips and need to get more. 

First any recommendations, and secondly is this man on YouTube stupid or clever? 

 

Definitely not stupid. I did this with a pair of budget off the shelf iems and it worked very well.

[Bigwan]

20 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

Definitely not stupid. I did this with a pair of budget off the shelf iems and it worked very well.

What putty did you use good sir?

[mrtcat]

4 hours ago, Bigwan said:

What putty did you use good sir?

I can't actually remember (was a few years ago) but it wasn't the stuff in the video, which clearly works fine, as it was more skin coloured. Might have been this stuff 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ahead-ACME-Custom-Molded-Earplugs/dp/B006LPKXKA/ref=pd_sim_267_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=S7A8G1XYTV5C1X7DF9D6

[LukeFRC]

7 hours ago, mrtcat said:

Definitely not stupid. I did this with a pair of budget off the shelf iems and it worked very well.

How did you rate the end results? 

[EBS_freak]

Sugru (from hobby craft) is the usual candidate for this kinda hack.

Have fun but be careful putting stuff in your ears!

[LukeFRC]

7 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Sugru (from hobby craft) is the usual candidate for this kinda hack.

Have fun but be careful putting stuff in your ears!

the guy in the video was using this stuff - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Proguard-MYO-Mould-custom-earplugs/dp/B006ZLXQ68?th=1 

which is being marketed as specific for the task - i'm not sure I would want to put non made for the task stuff in my ears! 

I'm weighing up if it's worth trying... do I buy some of that stuff or a set of complay (sp?) foam tips? 

 

[EBS_freak]

3 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

the guy in the video was using this stuff - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Proguard-MYO-Mould-custom-earplugs/dp/B006ZLXQ68?th=1 

which is being marketed as specific for the task - i'm not sure I would want to put non made for the task stuff in my ears! 

I'm weighing up if it's worth trying... do I buy some of that stuff or a set of complay (sp?) foam tips? 

 

Family safe formula is the one you need re:sugru.

I still reckon custom sleeves will be better than home brew, as the key thing for a good custom fit is getting a moulding that passes the second bend of the ear. I personally wouldn't want to be stuffing stuff in my ear that deep with out the cotton gauze that stops the moulding stuff going too deep into your ear.

Edited April 10, 2018 by EBS_freak

[TPJ]

I'm going to try the Snugs as Custom IEM are currently not reshelling. I missed the boat there.

[dand666]

I have got some Shure 535's and would love to get them reshelled into moulds, any other company that would do this?

 

*edit* I suppose this would work?     http://www.custom-inearmonitors.co.uk/iems/custom-fit-earphone-sleeves.php

Edited April 10, 2018 by dand666

[EBS_freak]

@TPJ and @dand666 - There's always Null audio in Singapore, they do get mentioned on headfi from time to time, but I have no direct experience of their reshells.

https://www.null-audio.com/collections/earphone-remolding-service

Just looked into the cost - nominally about £135 with postage and import on costs. You'll probably get it around the £200 mark door to door with all the extra costs, so comparable to what inearz was doing it for.

Edited April 10, 2018 by EBS_freak

[LukeFRC]

4 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Family safe formula is the one you need re:sugru.

I still reckon custom sleeves will be better than home brew, as the key thing for a good custom fit is getting a moulding that passes the second bend of the ear. I personally wouldn't want to be stuffing stuff in my ear that deep with out the cotton gauze that stops the moulding stuff going too deep into your ear.

No doubt compared to reselling and custom moulds  - but could comparing it to a new set of Comply foam ear buds...

[LukeFRC]

Reshelling not reselling

[EBS_freak]

Well, this is true I guess. I suppose having been through the route, nothing really compares to the full on custom for fit, isolation and comfort... even the sleeves (they have a tendency to separate from the monitor). Sometimes it's better to bite the bullet than spend little amounts trying out different approaches. In other words, save up and do it, rather than throwing money at lesser options. Again, depends what your budget is looking like - but experience has shown me that most people go through the dabbling with 215s and tips, sleeves, etc... and when they look back at the investment, they could have gone for a custom.

ok maybe it's a bit more difficult to do that with Inearz currently out the game (and the lower priced UE900s off the scene)... but null audio may be the answer for the pathway to a cheaper IEM?

[mrtcat]

16 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

How did you rate the end results? 

I'd say it was better than using standard foam tips but not as good as proper custom moulds. That said I was also impressed with the comply t600 foam tips. 

My wife helped me do the diy moulds and that made life easier. The best bit is that as soon the second ear was filled with putty I couldn't hear a word she was saying for 10 mins. 

[Ceebass]

Has anyone come across these before?

https://www.amazon.com/Earbuds-KZ-Headphones-Drivers-Microphone/dp/B07BQ2CL5W/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_267_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=5HVGQDHRN9MCA53G5XDE

Some guys on an American gospel forum I'm in were raving about them- they seem too good to true...

[EBS_freak]

I've come across them before (well, not this model, their others) but never heard them. As you say, they tend to appear on forums. Almost worth a shot for that kinda money isn't it? :-p

[itsmedunc]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

I've come across them before (well, not this model, their others) but never heard them. As you say, they tend to appear on forums. Almost worth a shot for that kinda money isn't it? :-p

I might try a pair of those on pay day. It says they can be returned if they aren't suitable. Quick search on Google finds them at under £33 at Gearbest. Never heard of the site before though.

 

[Ceebass]

16 hours ago, itsmedunc said:

I might try a pair of those on pay day. It says they can be returned if they aren't suitable. Quick search on Google finds them at under £33 at Gearbest. Never heard of the site before though.

 

Hmmmm I'm tempted too. I think you can only  get them from America, so I wonder if returns might be problematic? I just can't fathom how you can get 5 drivers for this price- do they know something I don't?

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, Ceebass said:

Hmmmm I'm tempted too. I think you can only  get them from America, so I wonder if returns might be problematic? I just can't fathom how you can get 5 drivers for this price- do they know something I don't?

I'm guessing they are off the shelf bulk purchase balanced armatures - probably from the Chinese wholesale manufacturers where a single balanced armature can be had for as little as 1 USD. Given that KZ themselves originate from China, it doesn't work out why their retail costs are so low.

The main players in the IEM world tend to stick with Sonion and Knowles (I don't believe Sony make their balanced armatures available to others) as the manufacture and audio output from balanced armatures can vary widely. Given the prices of the balanced armatures from these manufacturers, (a quick look shows that they are more like 9x the prices of the Chinese equivalents), it doesn't take long to work out why their is the price difference. It's probably worth also mentioning that the balanced armatures that you buy direct from the manufacturers are primarily used for hearing aids and pace makers, not hifi audio reproduction. Additionally, the various balanced armatures used by the CIEM world, (eg the quad balanced armatures etc) are specifically made for each IEM company, the specs of which are kept between the manufacturer and IEM company... and certainly not available off the shelf to anybody. For BAs like that, you'll pay a premium... and there will be a minimum order. This is why a lot of the small fish IEM companies using off the shelf components don't tend to compete with the offerings from the larger players.

The KZs are definitely worth a go though - in fact, I may be tempted myself! I quite like the idea of having a dynamic drive in the mix. In fact, I have GAS for the new Ultimate Ears Live piece... I want to hear it!! 

[EBS_freak]

Oh wow - looks like they could be Knowles drives in those KZs. OK, off the shelf armatures... but assuming that they have got some level of knowledge in tuning, damping and implementing the passive crossover, they could be a very good shout... especially for that kind of money. It would be silly not to take the risk at that price.

Great find @Ceebass

[Ceebass]

5 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

I'm guessing they are off the shelf bulk purchase balanced armatures - probably from the Chinese wholesale manufacturers where a single balanced armature can be had for as little as 1 USD. Given that KZ themselves originate from China, it doesn't work out why their retail costs are so low.

The main players in the IEM world tend to stick with Sonion and Knowles (I don't believe Sony make their balanced armatures available to others) as the manufacture and audio output from balanced armatures can vary widely. Given the prices of the balanced armatures from these manufacturers, (a quick look shows that they are more like 9x the prices of the Chinese equivalents), it doesn't take long to work out why their is the price difference. It's probably worth also mentioning that the balanced armatures that you buy direct from the manufacturers are primarily used for hearing aids and pace makers, not hifi audio reproduction. Additionally, the various balanced armatures used by the CIEM world, (eg the quad balanced armatures etc) are specifically made for each IEM company, the specs of which are kept between the manufacturer and IEM company... and certainly not available off the shelf to anybody. For BAs like that, you'll pay a premium... and there will be a minimum order. This is why a lot of the small fish IEM companies using off the shelf components don't tend to compete with the offerings from the larger players.

The KZs are definitely worth a go though - in fact, I may be tempted myself! I quite like the idea of having a dynamic drive in the mix. In fact, I have GAS for the new Ultimate Ears Live piece... I want to hear it!! 

This is super useful- thanks @EBS_freak. Given your oracle-like knowledge, I might give them a go! 

Just out of interest (& slightly off topic), what is the difference between the armatures for hearing aids and musical applications?

Edited April 12, 2018 by Ceebass

[EBS_freak]

37 minutes ago, Ceebass said:

This is super useful- thanks @EBS_freak. Given your oracle-like knowledge, I might give them a go! 

Just out of interest (& slightly off topic), what is the difference between the armatures for hearing aids and musical applications?

In terms of construction, not a great deal. It's the frequency response that matters. For hearing aids, they tend to be hyped around 2k and not very linear in terms of their response. They also tend to not go very low. Things have moved on though - there's dsp in hearing aids that can assist with compensating for an individual's frequency loss and also flattening out the frequency response of the balanced armature itself. For IEMs though, the devices are all passive, so like speaker manufacturer, the deficiencies have to be scienced out of the equation.

It was Jerry H that realised that you could get the extended lows out of an IEM by using a pace maker balanced armature in conjunction with a traditional BA.  By putting the drivers in phase (to some extent) by changing the bore and length of the connecting tubes and by dampening the air flow to reduce the peaks, you could get a pleasant sounding IEM, albeit far from flat. That is why for some time that his inears could do what everybody else's couldn't - getting the extended lows.

Of course, by then specifying your own balanced armatures, you can have drivers that are designed for sub, low, mids and highs which work in conjunction with your own specific crossover design. Each of these BAs will each have their own peaks and that's where the tuning and crossover design comes in again. The more drivers you have, the higher the complexity and task of actually getting a nice sounding ear without the inherent peaks that you get from a balanced armature. Some manufacturers are better at this than others (remember that the final product is the sum of lots and lots of variables) and of course will result in a specific sound signature. That is why when people A/B brands, they'll tend to favour a particular brand because their sound signature is more to their liking. Additionally, by specifying the impedance, you have more control in controlling what the super highs are doing - which is why balanced armatures can reach super high frequencies - that give the feeling of "air" to the sound.

Thats the high level version anyway :-p

[GrahamT]

Apparently they don't ship to the UK. Any suggestions as to how I can get hold of a couple of sets?