In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[intime-nick]

They look pretty interesting - I’ve got some UE900s that could be reshelled and the quad driver customs with the thermosoft tips might be worth a shot. 

[EBS_freak]

Whats the pricelist looking like?

[intime-nick]

[EBS_freak]

Oh wow, that’s some competitive pricing. Just need to know what they sound like! The comment on the quad is interesting - sounds like the guy knows what he is doing as he’s aware of tuning and not just shoving drivers in cases like some of the newer startups in the UK. This is all very interesting...!

I wonder what drivers they are using...? Im guessing off the shelf... but given that a reshell set you about about £180... that's some seriously competitive pricing. I'm tempted just for the hell of it.

Edited July 6, 2018 by EBS_freak

[intime-nick]

Me too - my main goal at the moment is isolation (something I’m not getting from universals despite trying a lot of different tips) and the combination of a quad with those soft tips at that price means it’s probably worth a try 

[mrtcat]

15 hours ago, Bigwan said:

On the reshelling front I've discovered a local (to me) chap building custom IEMs who advertises a reshell service. He's on Facebook as "LUGS - Play it by ear". No affiliation with the guy but interested in having my UE900S done and he's confirmed he can do them. 

Really good value for their 4 ba driver customs too if they're as good as they look.

[EBS_freak]

18 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

Really good value for their 4 ba driver customs too if they're as good as they look.

Yeah, it's been a while since we've seen those sort of prices. 64 audio built their business on those sort of figures back in the day. I think Nick is gearing up for our first volunteer to spend and roadtest. Perhaps I don't need those filter ear plugs... and I should just go for a set of these... 😛

I feel there is a danger of a BC "fad" though... lets wait and see 😛

Nick spoke to me this morning and bizarrely enough I was listening through some inears this morning. The ACS really do have a really nice sound signature and really show up the short comings of the ZS10s. As I've stated before, they (the ZTs) are a little disappointing in terms of an honest sound (but maybe thats a good thing for onstage) - but I was intrigued to see that they appear to be tubeless. So that's quite interesting - because a - thats essentially what tia is... but without the proprietary drivers which is what I believe is key to 64s design. Remember though, tia is for treble... ZS just seem to have crammed a load of drivers in sans tubes and dampeners and I'm not really sure if much thought has gone into phase issues or resonance. I dunno. Maybe it explains why I find them so odd sounding...  Anyway, must remember they were less than 40 quid!

Edited July 6, 2018 by EBS_freak

[mrtcat]

6 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Yeah, it's been a while since we've seen those sort of prices. 64 audio built their business on those sort of figures back in the day. I think Nick is gearing up for our first volunteer to spend and roadtest. 😛

I'm very tempted. May have to give him a shout at some point. 

[EBS_freak]

Reshell or new quad?

PS have you gigged with your wraps yet?

[mrtcat]

5 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Reshell or new quad?

PS have you gigged with your wraps yet?

New quads.

Yeah, I found the wraps very effective but really uncomfortable. I think my iems are only very marginally loose so I could do with something a bit less bulky. Maybe just a very fine wrap of a plyable electrical tape or something. 

[EBS_freak]

12 minutes ago, mrtcat said:

New quads.

Yeah, I found the wraps very effective but really uncomfortable. I think my iems are only very marginally loose so I could do with something a bit less bulky. Maybe just a very fine wrap of a plyable electrical tape or something. 

How about ordering a set of quads and asking if this Lugs chap can add some acrylic to your existing reshells. He will have a new impression so should be able to get his micrometer gauge on it to see what needs adding.

[tonyf]

16 hours ago, Bigwan said:

On the reshelling front I've discovered a local (to me) chap building custom IEMs who advertises a reshell service. He's on Facebook as "LUGS - Play it by ear". No affiliation with the guy but interested in having my UE900S done and he's confirmed he can do them. 

Ooooo, good spot. I've just followed him.

I've got a spare pair of UE900s which could be contenders for a reshell. Do you mind me asking what is the ballpark figure for the work and the turn round? Has he given any indication of the process involved? Do you need to be NI based for the impressions to be made?

[EBS_freak]

2 minutes ago, tonyf said:

Ooooo, good spot. I've just followed him.

I've got a spare pair of UE900s which could be contenders for a reshell. Do you mind me asking what is the ballpark figure for the work and the turn round? Has he given any indication of the process involved? Do you need to be NI based for the impressions to be made?

Image above. £180 - I'm guessing you'd have to pay extra for shipping your impressions to him (which will have a cost in themselves) and the shipping of the final article. Think you are probably looking circa 220 quidish all in. Although personally, I'd get him to change the MMCX connector for something less shite...

Edited July 6, 2018 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

Of course, that's not taking into account the custom SCS art work you'd have... and the custom SCS orange acrylic you'd order... and while you're at it, the thermosoft tips... etc. etc.... Could get pricey 😜

[tonyf]

3 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Image above. £180 - I'm guessing you'd have to pay extra for shipping your impressions to him (which will have a cost in themselves) and the shipping of the final article. Think you are probably looking circa 220 quidish all in. Although personally, I'd get him to change the MMCX connector for something less shite...

Ahhhh, didn't see that, brain fade. Thanks for pointing it out.

[EBS_freak]

2 minutes ago, tonyf said:

Ahhhh, didn't see that, brain fade. Thanks for pointing it out.

PS... You've been spending too many hours on *those* sites. It sends you blind.

[tonyf]

46 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

PS... You've been spending too many hours on *those* sites. It sends you blind.

What?!? Who said that?! *squints*

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, tonyf said:

What?!? Who said that?! *squints*

CTRL +

is your friend...

[TPJ]

I've had a play around with the UE 900s IEMs using both the regular rubber tips that came with them and the Snugs. They both sound about the same. The Snugs are a little more tricky to get in but stay put better. I'm wondering about a few things though.

1. I use Sennheiser HD25 headphones at home to practice and they have a pretty full sound with what I would call great bass response and good isolation. The UE900s with either the OEM tips or with the Snugs sound more boxy and seem to offer less bass, even though they are the model that are supposed to have 'subs' in them. Maybe I'm trying to get something out of them that doesn't exist and blaming it on the tips or Snugs. Maybe they just don't have good low end.

2. If the ear molds that were taken were not accurate, what would have happened if I had gone for an expensive reshell, especially when they were done in the US or over in Singapore, and they didn't seal? Could it be that some people have ear canals that are hard to get IEMS to work?

I have a gig this weekend and will try the Snugs again but will also try my cheapo Betron ear buds just for comparison of sound, ease of use and isolation.

[EBS_freak]

1. You are comparing a 41.3mm dynamic to a pair of balanced armatures on bass duties. Dynamic speakers tend to develop a lot more bass than balanced armatures... which is why a lot of bass players (granted, that are prepared to spend the money) really stack up those balanced armatures in the lows. The UE900s have what I would call adequate low end and are less likely to distort if you start digging in. They aren't tuned to be out and out bass monsters). You may want to put an EQ in front of them and start rolling off some of the tops (subtractive EQ) so the IEM becomes more bass focused. For real bass junkies, you are realistically looking at getting a quad in the bass if you want to keep up with the HD25s. With regard to the boxy thing, that could be a 200Hz issue (try pulling that down if it's sounding too boxy) or it could be down to the IEMs themself and how you are perceiving the sound from them - IEMs generally suffer with less wide sound stage... the 64 Apex/Adel (for those that remember) trades a little isolation and bass response for a greater sense of width. If you have access to EQ, you will be able manipulate the sound to give you more of what I think you are striving for.

2. Generally, the failure rate on hitting a perfect fit is low. Ears are of all different shapes and sizes but the process of getting the impression is the same. If the acrylic is too thin and the result is a loose fit.. it has to be built up with more acrylic. If it's the other way around,  its shaved down. Normally manufacturers have a 30 day window where you request a refit - and they'll work with you to get the fit right. It's not in their interest to leave somebody with a poor fitting IEM. I was talking to Paul from custom IEM about this on the stand at the bass show. He says that poor fitting monitors are very, very rare now... however, he does check each impression before it leaves so knows if it's up to scratch or not. For manufacturers that aren't using 3D printing and still doing the casting method, the preparation on the impression before making the mould is a skilled task. It has to be shaved down to size (so it looks like an IEM would) and then dipped in wax. This can oversize the mould ever so slightly.. so when it comes to the final polish of the iem, it takes some now how and experience to not go too far. With 3d modelling, all the cutting, shaving and smoothing are done inside the computer... so the results are very, very accurate. Some of the smaller operations are not into the realms of 3d printing yet... so you are putting a certain amount of trust in the people building your IEM... but as I said, these guys have to be accommodating when it comes customers needing to get a perfect fit.

Edited July 9, 2018 by EBS_freak

[Osiris]

6 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Dynamic speakers tend to develop a lot more bass than dynamics... which is why a lot of bass players (granted, that are prepared to spend the money) really stack up those balanced armatures in the lows.

Should that read "Dynamic speakers tend to develop a lot more bass than armatures"? Or is it the other way round? 

Not trying to be a smart-derrière, just trying to get to grips with it all 

[EBS_freak]

11 minutes ago, Osiris said:

Should that read "Dynamic speakers tend to develop a lot more bass than armatures"? Or is it the other way round? 

Not trying to be a smart-derrière, just trying to get to grips with it all 

Quite right... I messed up what I was trying to say - dynamics produce more bass (than balanced armatures) and are often described as "warmer" in their sound. Balanced armatures develop a lot less bass but are a lot, lot more detailed and revealing.

[TPJ]

Thanks for the help. I'll get in touch with Snugs to see how they make them and ask for advice.

[Osiris]

59 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Quite right... I messed up what I was trying to say - dynamics produce more bass (than balanced armatures) and are often described as "warmer" in their sound. Balanced armatures develop a lot less bass but are a lot, lot more detailed and revealing.

Thanks for the clarification 

[LukeFRC]

18 hours ago, TPJ said:

I've had a play around with the UE 900s IEMs using both the regular rubber tips that came with them and the Snugs. They both sound about the same. The Snugs are a little more tricky to get in but stay put better. I'm wondering about a few things though.

1. I use Sennheiser HD25 headphones at home to practice and they have a pretty full sound with what I would call great bass response and good isolation. The UE900s with either the OEM tips or with the Snugs sound more boxy and seem to offer less bass, even though they are the model that are supposed to have 'subs' in them. Maybe I'm trying to get something out of them that doesn't exist and blaming it on the tips or Snugs. Maybe they just don't have good low end.

2. If the ear molds that were taken were not accurate, what would have happened if I had gone for an expensive reshell, especially when they were done in the US or over in Singapore, and they didn't seal? Could it be that some people have ear canals that are hard to get IEMS to work?

I have a gig this weekend and will try the Snugs again but will also try my cheapo Betron ear buds just for comparison of sound, ease of use and isolation.

Just wondering which ones the "regular rubber tips" are?

I've been using UE900s for a while now, church set up, no backline and everything IEM with our own little mixer things... 
With the Silicon tips they are more or less useless for me. I can't get a good enough seal to get much low end.
The comply foam tips give me the seal I need to hear the bass - I often end up cutting the bottom end on the eq on the mixer for my send- and need to massively turn the kick drum down in order for my mix to not be overly bassey.

 

In the lower end before any customs i think there is a balance...  
I think there is an interesting balance here between audiophile sound like I would want sat at home listening to some music, and what I want for a live mix - they arn't nesserally the same are them? The UE900s are way better than standard headphones - and let me hear the bass for bass duties I think a massive bottom end to the sound would possibly be a hindrance to having the clarity the top end for timing....
 

Edited July 7, 2018 by LukeFRC