In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[Me And My Bass]

5 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

So, the big questions are

1. if you want to go stereo in your inears

2. whats your budget looking like

 

 

I can have a guess at what I think you are looking for from the spec you have posted and go from there.

Assuming you want to have control of your mix independent to the front of house, you are going to be needing a splitter somewhere along the line. So there's really only one option which you guarantee to work in most situations... and thats the good old analogue split. (Digital Dante splits, whilst being cool - are still not that widely adopted in the smaller scene... and even if you have a FOH Dante card, you'll need somebody to be able to configure it in Dante controller. If Dante is running at a festival, I guarantee nobody will be allowing any changes with Dante Controller). Anyway, I digress.

So analogue split wise, look at the following -

http://orchid-electronics.co.uk/micsplit.htm

http://artproaudio.com/splitters/product/s8/

https://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Behringer-ULTRALINK-MS8000-8-Channel-Microphone-Splitter/1WMI

Any analogue splitter will do you - but I would always get an isolated split - so you can't accidentally send two sets of phantom from two desks. You'll need to buy more than 1 if you want to monitor more than 8 channels. Remember, you don't necessarily need to monitor absolutely everything. (e.g. for drums - do you need all of the drum mics in your monitors?)

One half of the split will go FOH, the other will go to your mixing device.

Mixing device wise, you are probably looking like something like a Behringer XR18 to give you 6 mono mixes from the auxes. This means you can plug in something like a Behringer P2 headphone mixer into each aux for each of the band members. They can then control their mix individually via an phone or tablet that connects via wifi over the XR18.

If you want to go stereo, you have couple of options... You could make use of ultralink P16M from the XR18. That would give you stereo mixes for up to 16 tracks. Or you could use a combination of 3 lots of 2 lots of auxes to achieve 6 stereo mixes at a more affordable cost.

Or... you could get rid of the XR18 and get one of these to use with P16Ms -

http://www.musictribe.com/Categories/Behringer/Signal-Processors/In-Ear-Monitoring/P16-I/p/P0420#

Or... you could get a mixer with more auxes - the Mackie DL32R being the obvious candidate (as it has all the I/O built in without the need of break out boxes). Again, you would use it over Wifi like the XR18 - but you have the additional auxes available to you. Gives you the option to add a Dante card too if you want.

Hows that sounding for starters?

Of course, the biggest complexity is actually getting the festival organisers aware of what you want to do. Plugging in this way means them breaking their FOH chain and inserting your splitter. Of course, the most prepared festival organisers have splitters in place already for such things. Bigger festivals will have a dedicated monitor world. And festival organiser gods will let you take a feed from a Dante switch and have somebody on hand who can patch your device straight in.

If you aren't looking at the above, and you are looking at just wireless systems to be run off FoH auxes or maybe even a dedicated monitor world, then my go to system for the money would be a EW300. However... that brings it's own complexities... co-ordinating wireless frequencies in itself can be challenging. If you turn up to a festival that is running RF already... well, you aren't going to make yourself very popular if you start standing up your own RF broadcasts that could interrupt other systems. Also, you say that you are doing festivals all over Europe - you aren't going to be able to find a wireless system that is legal in every country... the legality of running these things are very much dependent on the country (and even state in some circumstances) and their local radio licensing laws. Not worth getting fined over wireless! Are you running the instruments wirelessly? If not, why don't you run inears wired also? And if you are running wirelessly, what frequencies? As you can see, running reliable RF can be a huge complication that nobody will thank you for at a festival... unless it's all under the organiser's control.  

 

 

 

Thanks for the response man, much appreciated! It’s exactly what I am after man & to be honest was hoping existed.

Its the half way step to bringing your own engineer with you. Getting self contained and a happy sound we know we can deal with.

Hadn't given though to stereo or mono mixes . . Mono would be fine I reckon.

Price wise - the XR18 (with router) + splitter & 6 P2’s would fall well under the budget I had in mind. This system would be ideal for now, and tbh the only two requiring wireless wireless would be myself on bass and the lead singer on guitar, both of us use Line6 G90 wireless systems for the guitars. 

Whats the best app to use with the XR18 + router where band members could tap in and change their mixes?

I reckon the festivals we have played in Europe would have accommodated the self contained mix scenario fine, they always request tech specs and I would make sure they knew the set up and what would be expected from that pre hand. 

May the end of the day we are halving the work they need to do in terms of providing monitors as well. 

Thanks again for the reply man! I will post up when we get something sorted. 

Cheers! 🍺 

Edited July 30, 2018 by Me And My Bass

[EBS_freak]

Xair monitor mixer would do you for iOS... but there's a few options out there with regard to Android and for iPad. Find the one that you like best - they all do pretty much the same in the same way.

Dont forget to factor in a xlr loom in your cost - they can be a significant outlay.

Edited July 31, 2018 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

Ooh. Deliveries (!) landing on Thursday. Can say I'm quite looking forward to it. 😛

[EBS_freak]

KZ AS10 have landed! (5 BA per side)

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2018-KZ-AS10-Headphone-5-Balanced-Armature-Drivers-HiFi-Stereo-In-Ear-Earphone-Separable-with-2pin/1922340_32905591074.html

Looks like they've hit up Knowles drivers again. Astonishing that you can get 10 BAs for that price. Again, can't comment on their performance or response at this stage but certainly an interesting addition. A little upset to see that single bass driver though

 

 

[Dood]

33 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

KZ AS10 have landed! (5 BA per side)

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/2018-KZ-AS10-Headphone-5-Balanced-Armature-Drivers-HiFi-Stereo-In-Ear-Earphone-Separable-with-2pin/1922340_32905591074.html

Looks like they've hit up Knowles drivers again. Astonishing that you can get 10 BAs for that price. Again, can't comment on their performance or response at this stage but certainly an interesting addition. A little upset to see that single bass driver though

 

 

Crickey! Silly money for an entry to IEMs!

[EBS_freak]

Booyah! I'm a happy chappie.

[EBS_freak]

And here's the second bit... couldn't resist a little extra earplug upgrade whilst at it... These are 64's earplugs, including the apex modules. I've never got on with traditional filter ear plugs... so am looking forward to hearing how these perform.

Edited August 2, 2018 by EBS_freak

[Dood]

1 minute ago, EBS_freak said:

Booyah! I'm a happy chappie.

OH BABY!!!!

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, dood said:

OH BABY!!!!

That's what I thought when I opened the box.

The chrome logos are a really good upgrade from 64 - they look class. I decided I wanted to keep them fairly simple... and agonised over going with either black or white caps (to obv match the bass). I'm glad I went black now that I've seen them in the flesh. Proper classy.

I like the new cables too - they apparently don't go green... so thought I would give them a go to keep everything looking a bit less heavy. I'm going to see how I get on with them... but may go Bax down the line for the super thin stuff (as found on the new UE monitors as standard) but keen to see how the stock cables perform. (Not that I'm heavy on cables - unless we are talking about ACS cables).

 

[Dood]

9 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

That's what I thought when I opened the box.

The chrome logos are a really good upgrade from 64 - they look class. I decided I wanted to keep them fairly simple... and agonised over going with either black or white caps (to obv match the bass). I'm glad I went black now that I've seen them in the flesh. Proper classy.

I like the new cables too - they apparently don't go green... so thought I would give them a go to keep everything looking a bit less heavy. I'm going to see how I get on with them... but may go Bax down the line for the super thin stuff (as found on the new UE monitors as standard) but keen to see how the stock cables perform. (Not that I'm heavy on cables - unless we are talking about ACS cables).

 

Yeah really classy, very nice! I'm glad you went with that colour scheme! When I upgraded by V series, they couldn't do the trans Purple with gold writing. I had a long think and couldn't decide, so I picked one solid black earpiece and the other is completely clear. The Black piece has silver writing the clear has black. It's just a winning combination! 

[EBS_freak]

Yeah - I think they shrank their colour choices down when they moved from moulding to 3d printing. Funnily enough, my Roxannes were originally going to be that colour scheme before I plumped for the CF option.

[intime-nick]

very nice indeed - damm, i haven't even used mine in anger yet and i'm gassing for an upgrade......😃😃 (this has the potential to be more expensive than buying stuff with multiple flashing lights & buttons!!)

[EBS_freak]

@intime-nick - it's all very addictive stuff. I would not want to do a gig any other way now. I know that they are perceived as very expensive headphones... but the performance of some of these IEMs... they are simply staggering. The lows on these 64s... I'm sure if I wasn't careful, they would be way, way, way too much. And when I look at my ACS where I started compared to where I am at now... well, there's just no comparison. I've been lucky to try quite a fair few IEMs in my time now, especially with all the tradeshows I do... and I just don't know why people wouldn;t go this route. It's just that to some people, dropping a shed load of cash on "headphones" just isn't as satisfying as buying some wedges.

Personally I prefer not having to carry the wedges and having a superior monitor mix. But hey, thats just me! 😛

Edited August 2, 2018 by EBS_freak

[andysg42]

3 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Booyah! I'm a happy chappie.

😂

OMG .These have got to sound as good as they look 😍. Would you trade them for a nearly new pair of ACS LIVES ? 😂Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.Dont blame you . dreadful things .  I feel the need to go shopping EBS Freak . green with envy . 🙏

[LukeFRC]

EBS_freak or IEM_ freak?

[EBS_freak]

4 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

EBS_freak or IEM_ freak?

I think that the forum would explode at the speed of light if I changed names now.

[DaytonaRik]

9 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Booyah! I'm a happy chappie.

Oooooofffffff!

[EBS_freak]

5 hours ago, andysg42 said:

OMG .These have got to sound as good as they look 😍. Would you trade them for a nearly new pair of ACS LIVES ? 😂Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.Dont blame you . dreadful things .  I feel the need to go shopping EBS Freak . green with envy . 🙏

I haven't spent much time with them yet and I've got to get used to the sound of them - but as far as I remember, theres defo a bit extra over the universals... but that's no surprise due to the custom fit, which I think always brings a fair bit extra to the party.

The ACS thing is so annoying- because the Live concept is so so good. Just badly executed in my opinion  But no, defo no swapsies on the cards!

When you're out in Florda, call into see Jerry - they will sort you out. Remember, just because I've had 64 doesn't mean anything. It's all personal preference. This time around I preferred these model. Last time, I preferred JH. Would I have the JH again? Yes!

[dand666]

21 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

And here's the second bit... couldn't resist a little extra earplug upgrade whilst at it... These are 64's earplugs, including the apex modules. I've never got on with traditional filter ear plugs... so am looking forward to hearing how these perform.

What are the filters in those? I have some ACS pro 17’s and I have a love/hate relationship with them. 

[EBS_freak]

3 hours ago, dand666 said:

What are the filters in those? I have some ACS pro 17’s and I have a love/hate relationship with them. 

These are 64's Apex filters. You can get -15dB, -20dB and the solid (which is the orange which is in the picture). I'll be using -15dB.

I'm the same as you, I never seem to get on with plugs... but thought I would give these a go to see how they work for me. I won't get to use them on a gig for a while so dont know what they'll be like using them onstage as I'll be using IEMs... I do use earplugs after coming off stage though.

I’ve uploaded a better picture for seeing the filters. As I say these are solid. The other filters I have, have little holes that dictate the level of attenuation.

Edited August 3, 2018 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

I don't know if anybody is as weird as me - but I like checking out autonomous sensory meridian response and hyper realistic 3d/binaural stuff - pretty cool stuff when using IEMs.

I don't think I've ever mentioned it on this thread before. But find somewhere quiet, maybe even do it with your eyes closed or in a dark room. It will blow your mind, especially on good IEMs. Let me know what you think! I love this sort of stuff.

Yeah, bet you can't guess what I've been doing this morning! 😛

Edited August 3, 2018 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/soundcaster/id1331642863

Looks like audiofusion is live! Will be watching the uptake of this with great interest!

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/soundcaster/id1331642863

Looks like audiofusion is live! Will be watching the uptake of this with great interest!

What is it? Kinda like the Allen and Heath ME1 I use on an iPad Pro ?

[EBS_freak]

3 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

What is it? Kinda like the Allen and Heath ME1 I use on an iPad Pro ?

Kinda but not really. What it does is take the output from a desk (typically USB) audio interface and using some software on a Mac, then sends audio to individuals iPhones over WiFi. The iPhones enable you to do your own custom mix of the channels (level and pan) and that is what is sent from the Mac to your iPhone. Of course the big worry for this system is the cumulative latency... which from reports is looking at about 9ms. Which is pretty poor - and I believe on highly optimised systems. I was on the beta program and lost interest pretty soon as even with a Dante connection, I was getting pretty high latency figures. Certainly higher than I’d entertain using.

100 dollar a connection to the Mac too. So quite a cheap way of implementing wireless - but not if it’s not actually of low enough latency. I’m interested because I’m wondering if people will find the latency figures acceptable. I hope it’s not another avenue to the thinking of, “I tried inears and it was pants”.

[LukeFRC]

19 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Kinda but not really. What it does is take the output from a desk (typically USB) audio interface and using some software on a Mac, then sends audio to individuals iPhones over WiFi. The iPhones enable you to do your own custom mix of the channels (level and pan) and that is what is sent from the Mac to your iPhone. Of course the big worry for this system is the cumulative latency... which from reports is looking at about 9ms. Which is pretty poor - and I believe on highly optimised systems. I was on the beta program and lost interest pretty soon as even with a Dante connection, I was getting pretty high latency figures. Certainly higher than I’d entertain using.

100 dollar a connection to the Mac too. So quite a cheap way of implementing wireless - but not if it’s not actually of low enough latency. I’m interested because I’m wondering if people will find the latency figures acceptable. I hope it’s not another avenue to the thinking of, “I tried inears and it was pants”.

It would be ok providing your iPhone doesn’t effect any instrument pickups