In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[mrtcat]

1 hour ago, LiamPodmore said:

Cable on my ACS has gone yet again and i can't be bothered replacing it again so looking for a replacement. Are the UE900s still the go to on the cheaper end?

UE900s are v good but I'd also consider Lugs who do a custom moulded quad iem for £350

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, LiamPodmore said:

Cable on my ACS has gone yet again and i can't be bothered replacing it again so looking for a replacement. Are the UE900s still the go to on the cheaper end?

Get some ZS10s for now and save up for some UE6s.

[andysg42]

1 hour ago, LiamPodmore said:

Cable on my ACS has gone yet again and i can't be bothered replacing it again so looking for a replacement. Are the UE900s still the go to on the cheaper end?

Your not alone on your disappointment with ACS Liam . Had a lot of problems with my acs emotion live iems . Also gave up with them 😡. Waste of money . Wish I had gone to the CIEM co and tried different brands back to back . Well worth the drive , ended up with the JH Roxanne’s. Amazing difference. Quality , reliability. Sound . Just got to pay for them now 😳😬😬😭. Hope you find something that works for you . 👍🙏🏼

[EBS_freak]

57 minutes ago, andysg42 said:

Your not alone on your disappointment with ACS Liam . Had a lot of problems with my acs emotion live iems . Also gave up with them 😡. Waste of money . Wish I had gone to the CIEM co and tried different brands back to back . Well worth the drive , ended up with the JH Roxanne’s. Amazing difference. Quality , reliability. Sound . Just got to pay for them now 😳😬😬😭. Hope you find something that works for you . 👍🙏🏼

Glad that they are working out for you Andy. A revelation eh? The Roxanne is a cool piece 😛

Edited November 1, 2018 by EBS_freak

[Muzz]

I had two failures with the left-hand IEM of an ACS single-driver pair (entry-level, but my tinnitus isn't great, and I'm working to budgets), and it also turned out they'd cast them to the wrong impressions. That's the bad...the good is they remoulded them very quickly to a pair of Emotions, and so far I'm a happy camper.

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, mrtcat said:

Tickets bought. I'll be there on the Sunday.

Make sure you come and say hi. I think you'll be impressed - certainly a big step up!

@intime-nick - how are you finding your UE6s? You've gigged them now haven't you?

Edited November 1, 2018 by EBS_freak

[attackbass]

Hi,

I'm looking for new IEMs. I managed to step on my Shure 215s and knacker them at a gig over the weekend so think this is a good time to upgrade a bit.

I have had in the past custom moulds IEM when I was touring a lot and found them uncomfortable and wasn't impressed with the seal. I think I have quite small ear canals.. I struggle to get foam earplugs in but found the rubber tips with the 215s fitted well and gave a really good seal.

So I'm looking for universal fitting monitors with a max budget of £350. I've been doing a lot of reading and read a lot of mixed reviews of the UE 900s and the Fender Ax7? I have also been considering Westones UM30s and earsonics. I don't want to spend more as I am likely to break them at some point! There also seems to be a lot of contradicting advice on how many drivers are best etc

I'm running wired to the desk via a presonus headphone mixer and splitting my Di out from my Hellborg pre to the desk and to the presonus so I can mix in my bass my self (I found getting the bass from the desk didn't work for what I like to hear)

I found the 215 by Shure actually ok - I think maybe I found it quite hard to balance my bass with drums and with guitar, synth etc as well in the mix I found there was a lack of space and definition and it could get quite loud/fatiguing.

Any advice on what I should really consider and really not consider would be much appreciated. I also found playing without them at function/weddibga type venues hellish so don't have the time to go with moulds at the moment.

Thanks

Will

 

[mrtcat]

15 hours ago, attackbass said:

Hi,

I'm looking for new IEMs. I managed to step on my Shure 215s and knacker them at a gig over the weekend so think this is a good time to upgrade a bit.

I have had in the past custom moulds IEM when I was touring a lot and found them uncomfortable and wasn't impressed with the seal. I think I have quite small ear canals.. I struggle to get foam earplugs in but found the rubber tips with the 215s fitted well and gave a really good seal.

So I'm looking for universal fitting monitors with a max budget of £350. I've been doing a lot of reading and read a lot of mixed reviews of the UE 900s and the Fender Ax7? I have also been considering Westones UM30s and earsonics. I don't want to spend more as I am likely to break them at some point! There also seems to be a lot of contradicting advice on how many drivers are best etc

I'm running wired to the desk via a presonus headphone mixer and splitting my Di out from my Hellborg pre to the desk and to the presonus so I can mix in my bass my self (I found getting the bass from the desk didn't work for what I like to hear)

I found the 215 by Shure actually ok - I think maybe I found it quite hard to balance my bass with drums and with guitar, synth etc as well in the mix I found there was a lack of space and definition and it could get quite loud/fatiguing.

Any advice on what I should really consider and really not consider would be much appreciated. I also found playing without them at function/weddibga type venues hellish so don't have the time to go with moulds at the moment.

Thanks

Will

 

ZS10s will only cost you £40 and I prefer them to UE900s and are a big step up from the Shures in terms of sound quality. If you can get the right tips on them then you'll save a fortune.

Edited November 5, 2018 by mrtcat

[attackbass]

Cool, yeah ive read about them on here but wasn't sure if I would be just putting off buying a more expensive set. However I am tempted to give them a try... I've seen a few mentions that the seal wasn't great and was the biggest issue... I'm guessing that would be solved with some comply tips? What tips do you use with yours?

 

Where did you buy yours from, I've found them on Amazon for about £50 for the 5 driver versions.

[EBS_freak]

When it comes to tips, how well a universal IEM seals depends upon two things. The shape of you ear itself and the tip in question. There's a lot of buzz about Comply - they are just tips. Doesn't mean they will fit you better or worse than anything else. It's about finding what fits for you. I know a lot of people who hate Comply because they disintegrate so quickly. You also state that you struggle with foam tips - you do realise that comply are foam tips? Ideally, you need to forget whatevery body is saying about tips and find the ones that fit you. This may mean you buying up and spending a lot of time finding the tips that are best suited to you.

My whole adventure into custom IEMs came from poor fit - which is why I ended up going down the custom fit route hence your comments around customs made me raise an eyebrow. If they are uncomfortable and the seal wasn't good, then the customs haven't been made properly. This leads me to such questions as, how were the impressions taken? Were the customs manufactured correctly - or were they even doomed from the start due to the poor impression? Have they shrunk (if they are are silicone). Nothing should fit more comfortable than a custom made IEM... afterall, it's a perfect fit for your ear.

With regard to small inear canals, given the fact that the largest IEM market is Asia, I suspect your ear canals are no smaller than the majority of the users of custom IEMs in the world.

As for multiple drivers, the key thing is that they don't necessarily sound better... but crucially they will give you more headroom - which is very important to a bassplayer as bass farting out is going to be thing that gives out first. The ZS10s are actually a pretty good piece to talk about here. With the multiple drivers and dynamic drivers in the lows, they have a lot of headroom, especially in the lows but at the expense of clarity that would be given by a balanced armature. (BAs are very good at detail but don't sound as wam or have the headroom of a dynamic, hence why BAs tend to be doubled up - especially in the lows). Now for the not so good bits - the ZS10s are not a great sounding IEM for critical listening. They have some phase issues going on and there's something in the 1-4k area which is not great. BUT... as a monitor, you'd rather have the headroom so that they are free from distortion than a perfectly nice response curve. The ideal is both... and thats why the main players in the custom market have got it sewn up. For starters, they are a custom fit = better isolation and comfort. This means you don't have to drive them as hard - so less chance of distortion. They then spend many, many hours of R and D in getting the tuning of the IEMs right... and this may even lead to the specification of custom made balanced armatures to engineer out the acoustic weaknesses that would be in place with off the shelf drivers. Budget and small manufacturers aren't interested in this and/or the associated costs.

Also, what was the problem in getting the bass from the desk? Unless you are running a post DSP setup, the signal you get from the desk should be the same.

With regards to the 215s being fatiguing - that may actually be a case of distortion, maybe not as much to be actually hearing an edgy distortion but certainly enough  to fatigue your ears quickly. I would also suggest that everybody runs a stereo mix to increase the spacial separation - again, this helps to combat distortion but also avoid the instruments maskings each other. Ideally, you should carve the EQs individually so there's space in the frequency range to allow each instruments to sit clearly - but I understand that without running individual mixes front of house to IEMs, this can be difficult.

If I was to offer any advice, get some ZS10s to see you through and save for a set of properly made customs.

 

[attackbass]

Hi EBS_freak. Thanks for your detailed reply back! I'm wondering if you are the same EBS lover that knows the singer in the function band I work with.. Julia Coles?

 

The custom mould monitors I had were Minervas... which I know a lot of people have had issues with, they eventually crapped out anyway. Lets just say one company said they couldn't do my impressions because of wax build up and the other company didn't say anything about it... Anyway they were free and the band I was in didn't always use them live, I preferred not to use them back then and in a proper music venue, playing rock music probably still prefer to use floor monitors/side fills.

 

I got back in to in-ears again mainly due to playing a lot of function/wedding gigs and just getting fed up with terrible rooms, awful onstage sound, close proximity to loud instruments such as brass etc! I don't want to go with moulds at this stage just because I was perfectly happy with the seal from the silicon (?) tips with the shures and also the expense is one I could do without right now. I didn't really get a break in the seal unless I laughed - which during a performance is rare - i hardly smile.. I am after all a bass player!

I think I will go for the zs10s and experiment with some tips. I think if others in the band move to in-ears eventually and we get a desk that is capable of offering decent stereo mixes it may be worth going for the very cool 64 ears or JH audio products. If I don't have to have a high quality bass cab at a gig then I can invest that money in to some IEMS!

I'm not going to do critical listening with any IEMs as I have nice studios monitoring headphones at home im very used to listening with.

I think the signal of my bass coming off the desk is post-eq, so it's been eq'D for the PA and is far too bright for me in my ears - I need to research the desk and see if it's possible to get the send sent pre eq to the aux. Soundchecks are usually rushed and chaotic due to the nature of the events we play... i'd be interested to see if I can get a stereo mix from the desk to the presonus hp2 - although I feel it can't accommodate it for some reason!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, attackbass said:

Hi EBS_freak. Thanks for your detailed reply back! I'm wondering if you are the same EBS lover that knows the singer in the function band I work with.. Julia Coles?

The custom mould monitors I had were Minervas... which I know a lot of people have had issues with, they eventually crapped out anyway. Lets just say one company said they couldn't do my impressions because of wax build up and the other company didn't say anything about it... Anyway they were free and the band I was in didn't always use them live, I preferred not to use them back then and in a proper music venue, playing rock music probably still prefer to use floor monitors/side fills.

I got back in to in-ears again mainly due to playing a lot of function/wedding gigs and just getting fed up with terrible rooms, awful onstage sound, close proximity to loud instruments such as brass etc! I don't want to go with moulds at this stage just because I was perfectly happy with the seal from the silicon (?) tips with the shures and also the expense is one I could do without right now. I didn't really get a break in the seal unless I laughed - which during a performance is rare - i hardly smile.. I am after all a bass player!

I think I will go for the zs10s and experiment with some tips. I think if others in the band move to in-ears eventually and we get a desk that is capable of offering decent stereo mixes it may be worth going for the very cool 64 ears or JH audio products. If I don't have to have a high quality bass cab at a gig then I can invest that money in to some IEMS!

I'm not going to do critical listening with any IEMs as I have nice studios monitoring headphones at home im very used to listening with.

I think the signal of my bass coming off the desk is post-eq, so it's been eq'D for the PA and is far too bright for me in my ears - I need to research the desk and see if it's possible to get the send sent pre eq to the aux. Soundchecks are usually rushed and chaotic due to the nature of the events we play... i'd be interested to see if I can get a stereo mix from the desk to the presonus hp2 - although I feel it can't accommodate it for some reason!

I know not of this Julia Coles that you talk of but I think I know her Brother, Ray?

Minerva haven't got the best track record in terms of reliability - but like ACS, I don't think that they have ever produced a decent IEM for bass users. I include their flagships in that statement. Im guessing that they were silicone based too back then - so you may have had shrinkage... and can you remember if you had an open, semi-open or closed mouth impression? That can impact the fit tremendously. Also, if you had wax buildup, that needed to be addressed at the time to ensure a good fit. You should get your wax buildup sorted anyway, it'll more likely improve your hearing anyway, IEMs aside.

If your benchmark for IEMs are Minervas or 215s, you are missing out on a lot. They simply won't give you the headroom or extended lows that you could have. What you have at the moment is like comparing a single 8 practice amp to a three way treble, mid and subwoofer setup that you could have. One would be ragged within an inch of it's life, the other barely on tick over. Customs are certainly the way to go - but it sounds like your experience of it has been somewhat disappointing or unfulfilling.

As for wedding/function gigs, then yeah, it sounds like you are in a prime position to go to a pair of decent IEMs. Lots of gigs, lots of awful environments to be in. I always try and sway people to invest in as good an IEM as they can - not because I like spending other people's money - just that I know from real world experience what the difference in the quality of IEMs are and what bolstering the number of drivers etc can do for you. You want to have fun on your gigs... so why would you spend all your time learning your stuff, buying decent gear... for the end point in your chain to be a set of poor performing IEMs? You want it to sound absolutely boss.

The ZS10s are probably a good budget option but certainly not something I'd remotely consider as end game. It should give you an idea about extra headroom for bass though. They struggle with stereo separation, the upper mids as I touched on before... the presentation smears the intelligibility of distinguishing between instruments. The other thing, cosmetically, they are a bit Shrek like. Other universals are a lot more svelte and obviously, a custom can be very flush to your ear.

From what I know about your setup though, is that you are limited by your desk (aux sends for individual mixes) and the size of the band when it goes out in full - this is certainly where things get more difficult. Also, the more you put out through the PA, the better things get. Run a silent stage and things become a lot cleaner in your inear mix and your foh mix. The limiting factor is what you can put through the speakers - are they capable to put the whole band through?

If you are still running a low numbered aux on an analogue desk, you are likely to be pre aux. Pre aux is preferable for IEM mixes as that means any changes to FOH, don't impact your inear mix. Ideally, you want to me moving to a more comprehensive desk in terms of aux count and processing - probably digital... but I suspect that's something that is outside of your control. Also, if the mix is too bright, the chances are is that you are actually using a bog standard DI feed. Things like a speaker emulator can fix that... although an EQ can achieve similar results. The ability to split EQs though, thats where digital desks are helpful! I'm guessing Jules is on Aux 1 of the desk with her EW300... so you'll get whatever is left?

If you can find the desk, I'm happy to help with some suggestions.

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by EBS_freak

[attackbass]

Thanks again EBS_freak.... actually what is your name? I'm Will. haha.

Really appreciate the advice, makes a lot of sense. I ordered some KZ monitors to get me through for the next few months hopefully at-least. I figured if I go for a decent set later, these will be a good back upset. That's if I ever get them, myhermes seem to have had an issue mid-delivery which has lead me to a morning of getting amazon to sort it out. Hopefully they will now arrive today.

With the PA - I think it's a decent if quite old system ( must be getting close to be 15 years old possibly) can't recall the brand but it's two subs and two tops. The whole band goes through the PA, electric drum kit, 3 brass, 2-3 vocals, bass DI, mic'd guitar cab, sometimes a keyboard too. The desk is an Allen and Heath Zed 16? I think. As far as I can remember it has 3 aux outs (tried looking at the manual online last night but it wouldn't load).

 

I don't think Jules has used her in ears for a while now, not sure why. I think possibly at the moment our drummer may have started using the feed from the desk for his monitoring so it's just me and him on aux 1 and 2 and I'm assuming the 3rd aux is going to the onstage monitors. So would the aux outs be in mono or stereo?  I'm not sure if the feed coming from the roland kit would be stereo either as I think it's just coming in to the desk via one lead.

I am just using the DI out on my hellborg pre at the moment - i have used preamp/cab sim pedals in the past but the sound of my hellborg pre is really nice for clean funk stuff,  I did use my tech 21 dug for a bit which I loved but was a bit too much! I would love for everyone to be on in-ears, with no onstage sound, I would love to be able to send a ampeg type channel and hellborg channel to the desk to blend a bass tone - i suppose I could do that now, but the amount of gear/cables go on it's simpler that I dont. I have been thinking of getting a HPF to run in the effects loop of the hellborg to perhaps shape it  - if i run the trickfish cab with the tweeter wide open it would maybe translate well out the cab and my in ears. Had a look at the mooer radar last night that could be a possibility.

Yeah ultimately I think getting a better desk and getting other musicians in the band to go to IEM is outside of my control. Hopefully when the next gear upgrade is needed we can have a serious talk about making the switch over completely!

[EBS_freak]

Hi, I'm Russ. I'll add you on FB.

If you are running tops and subs, probability is that you'll be OK ditching the backline and letting the PA do all the work - do you have to boost your amp on stage to help the PA out at all? Or does the PA do the lions share of the work?

The Zed is limited on aux sends for IEMs - you only have 2 pre fader auxes and no tone shaping on those auxes. So in reality, you have 2 mono sends available to do IEM mixes. These aux sends, just to confirm, will be mono. You need two auxes to do a stereo mix... although some people like QSC, have been known to put stereo aux outs on an unbalanced socket to provision a one socket stereo feed. Anyway, the aux count is going to be your number one limiting factor. For a band of that size, you really need to be getting into the digital realm to achieve the number of auxes to satisfy everybody if you were to all go in ears.

I know Jules was having major issues with her ears - that prompted her to go onto IEMs in the first place. I'm guessing that her ear problems have subsided a little or shes taking one for the team by letting you and the drummer have the auxes.

 

[burno70]

After the band recently converted to IEM's I've found that I seem to be the only one not enjoying the experience. The issue seems to be that my Sure 215's don't fit that well in my ears and are always loose which means I have no bass end. The other band members are saying they can hear the bass fine so it's just me. I end up switching my amp on so I can hear myself which completely defeats the purpose.

What's the best solution for this? Incidentally I don't get on with ear buds either for exactly the same reason - I must have crap ear holes.

I note that mouldies are an option but these seem to be outside my budget, although I've not discounted this option yet. I really don't fancy wearing cans. Any ideas?

[mrtcat]

7 minutes ago, burno70 said:

After the band recently converted to IEM's I've found that I seem to be the only one not enjoying the experience. The issue seems to be that my Sure 215's don't fit that well in my ears and are always loose which means I have no bass end. The other band members are saying they can hear the bass fine so it's just me. I end up switching my amp on so I can hear myself which completely defeats the purpose.

What's the best solution for this? Incidentally I don't get on with ear buds either for exactly the same reason - I must have crap ear holes.

I note that mouldies are an option but these seem to be outside my budget, although I've not discounted this option yet. I really don't fancy wearing cans. Any ideas?

When you say 215's don't fit well, have you tried a variety of tips (foam/rubber etc)? A good fit with a tight seal is really the key to a successful iem experience. From what I know of the 215 it isn't renowned for lots of bottom end as it's just a single driver and therefore there's limited headroom. I found that the ZX10's have way more bottom end and headroom but are quite bulky. There are some great deals on custom moulds out there. I just ordered some UE6 pros and I believe that the custom iem co are currently offering a free bluetooth cable and free upgrade to a premium faceplate. The Lugs custom IEM's look like incredible value with them starting at just a couple hundred quid. If you have an unusual ear shape then a custom fit iem will really help. 

Don't give up. Once you get it sorted you'll be blown away by how well you can hear everyone and you'll also be looking after your hearing.

 

[burno70]

Thanks for your quick response. Can you point me to Lugs custom IEM's? I can't find them. Thanks.

[mrtcat]

50 minutes ago, burno70 said:

Thanks for your quick response. Can you point me to Lugs custom IEM's? I can't find them. Thanks.

I think they're only on Facebook 

https://www.facebook.com/LugsCustomIEM/

[intime-nick]

 

57 minutes ago, burno70 said:

Thanks for your quick response. Can you point me to Lugs custom IEM's? I can't find them. Thanks.

I have some LUGS quads and some UE6 Pros - both are very capable IEMs with the LUGS also being very good value for money.  Either will be a massive step up from universals. 

[Graham]

I've seen ZS10s recommended on here, are these they?

https://m-uk.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1707254.html?wid=1433363&currency=GBP&vip=14752948&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9p2Cl5r-3gIVT7vtCh3TJgNYEAQYASABEgLDFPD_BwE

Because at that price they basically an impulse buy

Edited December 1, 2018 by Graham

[mrtcat]

4 hours ago, Graham said:

I've seen ZS10s recommended on here, are these they?

https://m-uk.gearbest.com/earbud-headphones/pp_1707254.html?wid=1433363&currency=GBP&vip=14752948&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9p2Cl5r-3gIVT7vtCh3TJgNYEAQYASABEgLDFPD_BwE

Because at that price they basically an impulse buy

Yep that's the ones you want. That's where I bought mine from. 

[Graham]

Excellent, do I want the version with the mic? I assume not, but I'm new to this

[EBS_freak]

You don't need the mic.

[Graham]

Cheers, I have succumbed to the impulse, just need to get a headphone amp now

[EBS_freak]

2 hours ago, Graham said:

Cheers, I have succumbed to the impulse, just need to get a headphone amp now

You want to get something like a Behringer P2 for live use.