In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[EBS_freak]

Good call, hadn't thought about that but I can understand it completely. I've noticed that I've stood a little further back from the mic over the past couple of gigs because I can sooooo much more hear myself now. Obviously what's going out front may well be a different picture to the mix in the IEMs so as ever, we'll probably concentrate on the out front mix firstly to get happy with the mix and then do the monitor mixes to taste.

Until we upgrade the desk, we're still limited by outs so we're splitting Fiddy and Jo into their own mix off the one transmitter and then me and Paul (and Dave through the headphone out) on the other transmitter will share the other mix. I think the vocalists always tend to rely on heavily vocal heavy mixes through the front wedges so there shouldn't be that much difference for them. Anyway, we'll be able to tweak it to suit within the sound check and first couple of tunes.

You love it. Edited August 31, 2018 by EBS_freak

[DaytonaRik]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1386337706' post='2298967']
If you are a vocalist, it's the best. Defo. I hate singing without them now - the only thing that can catch you out as a vocalist is that because you hear yourself so loud in your ears, you tend to lay off the mic a bit... so especially on your lead singers, do a thorough soundcheck so they get used to singing on the mic and tailor the mix so they don't back off the mic... if you get what I mean.
[/quote]

Odd as a lead vocalist I also found a huge benefit was that I was able to back off and wasn't screaming my head off to get heard in a monitor mix and I had much more control overt the dynamics of my voice and also better able to look after my voice properly.

Edited December 6, 2013 by DaytonaRik

[EBS_freak]

Odd as a lead vocalist I also found a huge benefit was that I was able to back off and wasn't screaming my head off to get heard in a monitor mix and I had much more control overt the dynamics of my voice and also better able to look after my voice properly.

That's what I am saying. Because what you are hearing has changed, it will influence your mic technique. It's natural that if you are really loud in your IEM mix, you'll hold back off the mic.. and that will obviously influence what happens out front compared to singing without IEMs. So if you aren't screaming your head off, you will probably need to turn the gain on the mic up, or at least the fader. Depends if you got your own front of house engineer/monitor engineer I guess, or if you do the whole thing yourself. Edited August 31, 2018 by EBS_freak

[DaytonaRik]

I meant that I back off in a good way - notably not straining my voice. Good mic control has always helped - too often you see a vocalist with no sense of how to maintain a constant output level when they put a bit more into the vocal performance. No matter how perfect your monitor mix is, whether wedges or IEMs, ultimately FOH is in the hands of another...or your mate in the crowd pointing to the lead guitarist and gesturing to turn him down!!!

[EBS_freak]

Tony - you're out tonight at The Road House aren't you? Again, can't make it.. :-/ Gigging myself!

[tonyf]

Hi Russ, yes, we were at the Roadhouse. Pity you couldn't have come, we would have had 5 people watching us! lol

With the in-house PA, despite having the IEMs with us, it was just way too much grief to try and get the engineer to setup our monitoring through the IEMs. Pity, it was a real jolt to go back to "old skool" monitoring and really missed using the buds despite only having used them for the last half dozen gigs.

Amazing how quickly you get used to something so good.

[citymariner]

Has anyone used the T3s?

I'm considering some new hearing protection and want mouldies. Do I just go for the standard ear protection and upgrade later to the buds that fit in or go for the T3s?

[martinbass7750]

I'm using an A&H QU16 with ME1 - only 1 gig with it but it seems great.

Could do with some ear bud advice. I used some AKG buds (IP1 I think) that came with the AKG wireless item. Sound was fine, but way too much bleed. I had to have the level hi to get over the bleed.

I have some ACS custom plugs and I bought their entry level earbuds to use with the custom plugs. Can't get a reliable seal with them, so I get deafened when the seal breaks!

What ear buds would you guys recommend that give a decent ambient attenuation, and decent sound. Could spend up to £200

Cheers
Martin

[EBS_freak]

You got a great system there. I make no secret of being an a&h digital desk fan. Me1 is super good isnt it?

As for buds, Shure 425s or Sennheiser IE80 with comply tips. The Sennheiser probably develops more bass than the Shure but seems to be more picky with ear fitment than the Shure.

[martinbass7750]

Yeah, love the ME1. Using it wired, I've bought a long 3.5mm jack lead and I intend to spiral wrap it with the guitar lead so being hard wired will be fine.

Only slight issues I'm having with the QU16 are:

Me1 feed is post fader, can't work out how to make it pre.
Linked pairs on QU16 aren't linked on ME1
Can't name channels within a group on ME1

I'm hoping the last 2 will be resolved in firmware upgrades, and the first one is because I haven't read the manual thoroughly!

Sorry OP, that was a bit of a hijack!


Thanks for the advice on ear buds, I'll look into both those.

Cheers
Martin

[EBS_freak]

Yeah, love the ME1. Using it wired, I've bought a long 3.5mm jack lead and I intend to spiral wrap it with the guitar lead so being hard wired will be fine.

Only slight issues I'm having with the QU16 are:

Me1 feed is post fader, can't work out how to make it pre.
Linked pairs on QU16 aren't linked on ME1
Can't name channels within a group on ME1

I'm hoping the last 2 will be resolved in firmware upgrades, and the first one is because I haven't read the manual thoroughly!

Sorry OP, that was a bit of a hijack!


Thanks for the advice on ear buds, I'll look into both those.

Cheers
Martin

I'm not sure where it is on the QU16 - but theres a pre/post option - or a direct out. On the latest GLD update there was the ability to return the fx to your ME one. I would imagine the same configuration will exist on the QU16, or at least be addressed in the next firmware for QU16. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've just seen the last firmware being released for QU16.

As for the cable, some zip ties along the lead should see you good.

A&H are really good on firmware updates - all the requests bar one I've asked for on their forums have been implemented. Still waiting for the ability to record a number of tracks to USB like the QU16 allows - but I suspect it won't be made available for the GLD series due to the possible impact it may have on their Dante card sales. Edited August 31, 2018 by EBS_freak

[martinbass7750]

I'm on the latest firmware, they seem to release one almost every month.
Always liked A&H, great gear. Had a presonus for a while but the QU16 is much nicer to use.
I'll read the manual to try to resolve pre/post fader. Found it for the mix outs but not digital out yet.
There's a lot of requests oft channel naming on the QU16, so hopefully that will arrive.

Cheers
Martin

[martinbass7750]

A&H have replied - there's a global option in the routing screen to select pre or post fader for the digital outputs - sorted!

[EBS_freak]

A&H have replied - there's a global option in the routing screen to select pre or post fader for the digital outputs - sorted!

Cool - was going to take a look for you when I got back but it sounds like your are sorted. A&H support is really good - and they do tend to release a lot of firmware... which I actually think is a really good thing. Not only does it iron out any bugs, there's a lot of extra features going in all the time - usually from feedback direct or off the support forums. The QU16 really is a game changer for most small bands. If they pushed a QU24 or maybe even a QU32 (althought they are fast approaching GLD territory there) they would hit a home run. (Having said that, the GLD has a lot of features that the QU16 hasn't got so extended channel count may not be such a detraction from the GLD stuff anyway).

The channel naming is a bit of a tricky one as there are no digital scribble pads... being named in the screen could be quite useful... although I think the biggest bonus could be seeing channel names in the iPad app. Who knows? Maybe they will, maybe they won't!

Did you ever see the Camryn A&H rig I posted? Edited August 31, 2018 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

Here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVV72uhPNIQ

Edited August 31, 2018 by EBS_freak
Link fixed.

[martinbass7750]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1387813468' post='2316021']
Here you go

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVV72uhPNIQ
[/quote]

Nice!

Edited March 24, 2014 by icastle
Link fixed.

[martinbass7750]

Naming on the screen would be good.
I think you can now name channels on the latest ipad app.

Also channel links are not sent to the ME1.

The reply I got suggested that channel naming and stero link info might be coming.

[EBS_freak]

Naming on the screen would be good.
I think you can now name channels on the latest ipad app.

Also channel links are not sent to the ME1.

The reply I got suggested that channel naming and stero link info might be coming.

OK - I've not seen the naming on the latest iPad app but it sounds like they are responding to user requests, which is typical of A&H. This is what I love about these mixers - they are constantly evolving and you can add more functionality based on just software. Brilliant really.

Yeah - the ME has a bit of catching up to do - but it'll get there. Presumably you are running your ME1 with power adapter? When I was looking at equipping the band with ME1s, I was looking at a PoE solution. The A&H hub is pretty pricely - I did see a thread on the net somewhere where somebody was running them all up on an old cisco PoE router... Seems like the way to go for me. I hate power adapters and wires everywhere! Edited August 31, 2018 by EBS_freak

[martinbass7750]

The MEU is VERY pricey although it does provide channel naming for the ME1.

Yes currently using a wall wart, Poe would be good but only if cheap! Let me know how you get on

[EBS_freak]

You could always get a standalone PoE injector. Keeps the stage cleaner.

Edited December 24, 2013 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

mr zed -- how did you get on?

[mr zed]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1388667087' post='2324503']
mr zed -- how did you get on?
[/quote]

Errrrrrr...........well.............ashamed to say that the Sennheiser G2 and the Westone UM2's are still boxed. After receiving these for Christmas the only time the band has been together with the PA was on NYE for a gig. Didn't want the pressure of setting up for the first time, getting a decent mix then getting used to the system on a gig. I would much rather take my time under controlled rehearsal conditions when we don't have to perform to a good sized audience. So, next week I will pop my in-ear cherry! I'll let you know how I get on.

[mr zed]

Well - it's been a while - time for the update.

I've now had chance to try out my in-ear monitor system on a gig and, as I hoping it is an absolute revelation! The Westone UM2's are comfortable and provide a nice warm rich sound. No problems whatsoever with the Sennheiser system - clear and with a great range from transmitter to receiver. I even managed to monitor what the rest of the band were doing during set-up from the toilets

I kept everything in the middle of the mix apart from the 2 guitars which I panned slightly left and right so knew who was playing what. Isolation from the loud on-stage volumes was cured with the UM2's in place and I drove home that night with no ringing in my ears I didn't get the feeling of being isolated from the audience that some people have mentioned, however we do have 4 vocal mics on stage as well as 2 overheads for the drums which were all picking up ambient noise.

I could actually hear my backing vocals and could pitch in tune and the bass came through clear and punchy. No distortion and plenty of headroom. I could even listen to what the keys were doing. I was hearing stuff for the first time that only the audience usually get to hear and I'm pleased to say that I liked what I heard. Our soundman had to turn up my vocal level on the FOH as I wasn't shouting to be heard which resulted in a better vocal performance.

Very very happy indeed.

[EBS_freak]

me zed - very glad to hear!

It sounds like you had a great entry into the world of IEM monitoring. I'm with you - the amount of open mics I think will influence that feeling of isolation greatly. I have 4 open vocal mics with 2 overheads too - and if we have the horn section with it, there's more spill from them also.

I'm really enjoying a mix of setups at the moment - the ACS live system is fantastic... but sometimes I like the more isolated feel that I get without the live pack. I'm beginning to recognise what room characteristics will work best with the live system or without the live system.

Talking of mics, I'm really enjoying the extra wirelessness of the band too - I've just invested in rack of EW500s and really liking the lack of cables across the stage. Need to really sort out getting an IEM rack sorted as they are all over the stage at the moment - for example, I have the guitarists EW300 IEM in my bass amp rack as I had a free 1u available! Getting all the units to talk without RF interference was a mission though...! I'm sure it must be easier with all one brand... but getting a mix of Sennheiser and Shure all within one channel co-operating with each other was a steep learning curve. I think the solution will be at one point to make the jump to all one wireless brand so all the scanning functionality works hand in hand with each other.

Anyway, good for you, hope that you have many, many more successful IEM gigs! (Great to read you were running stereo also!)

[mr zed]

Hi Russ - really glad the ACS ambient pack is working out for you and best of luck with building your cable-free stage.

My Westone UM2's are brilliant - all the dynamics and feel of a live gig - not a processed sound at all (which is what I was half expecting). Comfortable too - or so I thought.....

At the end of our set and the DJ cranked his system up, I reached for my ACS custom Pro 17's and popped them in (no point in protecting my hearing whilst playing if I am to undo all the good work at the end of the night by listening to recorded stuff at VERY loud volume). Anyway, I noticed a defined difference in comfort between the universal (hard plastic shell) Westones and the custom (silicon) ACS's. Not a huge surprise really - custom fit is always going to be more comfortable, however I think the silicon also plays a big part in this. So, guess who's started gassing for a set of ACS T1's? Started saving my pennies now and it will take a few months but i'm happy enough (more than happy actually) with the UM2's whilst I save up.

Question is, do I go for the T1's or the T1 Lives (with a view to possibly adding the ambient pack at a later date)? I know you have said that sometimes you like the more isolated feel that you get without the live pack - given your experience, both with and without the ambient pack, what would you do? Also are the ACS silicon jobbies the most comfortable or do you get the same level of comfort from other materials used by other suppliers? I know you've tried a few so thought i'd ask.

The other people in my band are starting to take an interest in my IEM's. As a starting point, our drummer is going to plug into the front of my transmitter and see how that works for him. Our lead guitarist (who was wearing ER20 plugs on the gig) kep't complaining that he couldn't hear himself properly. I told him that I could hear all his mistakes perfectly so he is also looking into going down the wireless IEM route. If he does this, we have one spare aux so he can run in mono. Lead singer is yet to show interest but it's probably coming.

cheers.