In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[intime-nick]

30 minutes ago, la bam said:

Thanks again.

Is there a UK site for the ue6?

http://www.custom-inearmonitors.co.uk/iems/ultimate-ears-ue-6-pro-custom-in-ear-monitors.html

[la bam]

Thanks.

[EBS_freak]

Defo worth a trip to see the ciem company - one stop shop to get everything sorted and you can get to try out all the i.e. to suit your budget. Although I have to say, given the budget you have stated, the ue6 would appear to be the obvious choice!

 

 

Edited December 25, 2018 by EBS_freak

[stingrayPete1977]

I have just been playing around with the patented BCIEM setup of a behringer P2 and KZ ks10s and gone from the worst to the best sound ever, I had loads of crackle and couldn't trace it, tried various leads and muting every channel, tried the other P2s (I have 4 now) all the same, yep they were on stereo not mono!

With that sorted I was happy again but decided just 'to try' the other size ear buds that come with the KZs, the small were far too small and they fell out, the large are much better and the BASS is there in spades now, cracking!

I am blasting some Paramore through them🤘

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by stingrayPete1977

[EBS_freak]

If you can get a bigger tip in your ear, you are bound to get a better seal. The better seal you get, the more bass. The only thing you got to be careful of is that you don’t occlude the passage of air from the drivers to your inner ear - as that’s when things can start to sound weird.

Was your mono/stereo issue whilst coming off an aux of the XR? 

[EBS_freak]

PS @stingrayPete1977 did you have a good colliers Boxing Day pie? Will get something in the diary soon!

Bet you looking forward to getting the first IEM outing underway. You got everything sorted with your split desk setup now and EQed your bass to perfection? 👯‍♀️

[stingrayPete1977]

7 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

If you can get a bigger tip in your ear, you are bound to get a better seal. The better seal you get, the more bass. The only thing you got to be careful of is that you don’t occlude the passage of air from the drivers to your inner ear - as that’s when things can start to sound weird.

Was your mono/stereo issue whilst coming off an aux of the XR? 

Yes I'm feeding the laptop into the XR, The bass in via the BDI21 then out aux 4 to my ears, we must have changed it when we went for a pie, two of the other three were on stereo too. 

[stingrayPete1977]

7 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

PS @stingrayPete1977 did you have a good colliers Boxing Day pie? Will get something in the diary soon!

Bet you looking forward to getting the first IEM outing underway. You got everything sorted with your split desk setup now and EQed your bass to perfection? 👯‍♀️

Yeah good family pie session thanks, I'll get Jim to ask about the club to do the set up and see what dates we can all do to suit you, our iem tech! 

[DanEly]

IEM rig warriors!

I'm looking for some advice. I'm currently peicing together build list for a IEM splits rack. The rack will be for a 5 piece rock band all on ears. So far I'm looking at 2 Behringer ULTRALINK MS8000 for splits and either a x32 rack or xr18 with routers etc etc. Budget is a factor!

Now what I'd like to know... How practical are splits racks for gigs, who here has toured with one? Do they create more hassle than they are worth - especially if you aren't headline shows?

Are stereo mixes are luxury or a necessity? Have xr18 users found a way to send a separate stereo dedicated mix out of the headphone output without using up a mix bus? Is the x32 worth splashing out on?

 

[EBS_freak]

I’m out at the moment but will give you a run down later.

[DanEly]

5 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

I’m out at the moment but will give you a run down later.

😃 Fantastic!

[EBS_freak]

On 28/12/2018 at 11:40, DanEly said:

IEM rig warriors!

I'm looking for some advice. I'm currently peicing together build list for a IEM splits rack. The rack will be for a 5 piece rock band all on ears. So far I'm looking at 2 Behringer ULTRALINK MS8000 for splits and either a x32 rack or xr18 with routers etc etc. Budget is a factor!

Now what I'd like to know... How practical are splits racks for gigs, who here has toured with one? Do they create more hassle than they are worth - especially if you aren't headline shows?

Are stereo mixes are luxury or a necessity? Have xr18 users found a way to send a separate stereo dedicated mix out of the headphone output without using up a mix bus? Is the x32 worth splashing out on?

 

Sorry about delay... Christmas and all that.

So in terms of practicality, well, that depends on the type of gig that you are going and if your sound man is your friend. How far up the pecking order you are on a gig is probably going to be quite key also. In short, it can be quite a bail ache... especially if there's quick turn arounds involved.

If you are a playing in a support slot, than expect life to be very difficult for you. Front of house guys want to plug their mics and gear into their gear. If they go via your splits and your gear causes them issues, you aren't going to be very popular. Front of house guys will want to control the gain on the mics. They won't want the hassle of going into your split if you aren't the headline slot, thats for sure... especially if you aren't sticking around and you expect to remove your splitter from the stage. If you are looking to insert a splitter in-between bands... then I'd say defo forget it.

The key thing is, if you can, talk with the sound guys in advance of the gig and tell them that you are planning on bringing a splitter so you can run a band run monitor world. Advance notice is always the polite thing to do and the sound guys are more likely to accommodate you.

You haven't said what your line up in the band is. You may want to run independent mics to FOH so you are completely self sufficient. A mic on each guitar cab (or a split if using modellers etc) may be the way to go. The only issue is going to be with regard to vocal mics. Sound guys may be more accommodating if you you are looking only to split a vocal mic... or send you a vocal feed back via XLR to plug into your mixer from the FOH aux.

Stereo mixes are preferable to mono if you can spare the auxes... so going X32 over XR18 will be preferable for a a 5 piece band. However, you are going to be struggling for aux outputs on a X32 without buying the extension rack/stage box. With regard to the XR18, remember you can use the LR as a monitor mix bus independent of the auxes - because the L/R isn't going to be sending anything out front. I haven't done the sums but you may be able to find something like a Mackie DL32R (an excellent monitor mixer) - that has the full I/O available to you without having to worry about extra break out boxes. (they are due to become Mac/PC and Android compatible to - currently only iOS). 

 

[DanEly]

Line up pecking order will be very varied and the vast majority of the time we’ll be with our own FOH guy. 

Band line up will be; Drums, bass, 2x guitars, 5x vocals and various backing tracks.

Ideally we’ll be needing the full line up in our ears along with click and tracks. The Mackie looks great but is about double the current budget I’ve got at the moment. I was thinking line splits would be slightly easier (and more cost effects) because we won’t have to take a whole mic package along to gigs with us. 

With the x32, correct me if I’m wrong - you can use the TRS outs along with the aux outs so 5 stereo mixes shouldn’t be a issue right? 

The XR18 can only really give 4 stereo mixes 1-6 aux (3) and the LR Main out (4) I’m not sure were the 5th would come from?

 

 

[stingrayPete1977]

Headphone out ^

[DanEly]

13 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

Headphone out ^

Headphone out needs a mix bus right? There’s only 6 busses available on the XR18 so that’s not possible unless I’m assuming wrong?

 

[EBS_freak]

4 hours ago, DanEly said:

Line up pecking order will be very varied and the vast majority of the time we’ll be with our own FOH guy. 

Band line up will be; Drums, bass, 2x guitars, 5x vocals and various backing tracks.

Ideally we’ll be needing the full line up in our ears along with click and tracks. The Mackie looks great but is about double the current budget I’ve got at the moment. I was thinking line splits would be slightly easier (and more cost effects) because we won’t have to take a whole mic package along to gigs with us. 

With the x32, correct me if I’m wrong - you can use the TRS outs along with the aux outs so 5 stereo mixes shouldn’t be a issue right? 

The XR18 can only really give 4 stereo mixes 1-6 aux (3) and the LR Main out (4) I’m not sure were the 5th would come from?

 

 

Ok - I guess the key thing is who has got access to the cabling. Is your FOH guy going to be the same guy who is cabling on stage? It’s all doable as long as you have time and have the comms and expectations laid out before you get to the venue. The worst thing you can have is an expectation that everything is in place and you have such a reliance on your setup being in place, your performance is put at risk.

With that many vocal mics, you are defo looking at using a split no question. I think you need to be very clearer on your rider what you need - and get to the venue early. Also, make sure you have a 16 way snake of your own as suddenly requiring an extra 16 XLRs could really screw some venues (although I suspect you will wire the split into a rack? - that does potentially bring problems on stage as it depends where the venue stage box is and whether there’s physical space for a racked x32 to be sitting around).

Also, are you looking at a rack x32 or physical slider one? Just revisited the x32 rack and yes, looks like you should be able to use the TRS aux outs (obv 1 per stereo side).

You are right, you are limited on the bus count on the XR18. What you may want to look at is if a Y cable split post the isolated split from the splitter to feed a pair of XR18s may be order of the day... may work out cheaper and offer some redundancy. You have the opportunity of still going mono if one of the XR18s failed that way.

 

[stingrayPete1977]

1 hour ago, DanEly said:

Headphone out needs a mix bus right? There’s only 6 busses available on the XR18 so that’s not possible unless I’m assuming wrong?

 

Ah that's a point, I've got the xr16 which has the same 6 busses but only 4 physical auxiliary outs so I can route the phones onto the spare ones, I was thinking the 18 would have more but of course the software is the same. 

[DanEly]

All this info is so helpful. I’m looking at building it all into a rolling rack, so the x32 would be racked along with the splits rack mounted (labeled? with a 16 way loom out to give to FOH.

Im just trying to work out if there’s any other options out there. I do like the idea of having a closed system that’s going to sound almost “there” once it’s wired up and plugged in, obviously venue and mics are going to be factored into the equation. A lot of the songs will need click intros for guitars etc so having a good mix is vital for everything running smoothly. I’ve done too many gigs with dodgy monitor mixes through clapped out wedges.

[EBS_freak]

5 hours ago, DanEly said:

All this info is so helpful. I’m looking at building it all into a rolling rack, so the x32 would be racked along with the splits rack mounted (labeled? with a 16 way loom out to give to FOH.

Im just trying to work out if there’s any other options out there. I do like the idea of having a closed system that’s going to sound almost “there” once it’s wired up and plugged in, obviously venue and mics are going to be factored into the equation. A lot of the songs will need click intros for guitars etc so having a good mix is vital for everything running smoothly. I’ve done too many gigs with dodgy monitor mixes through clapped out wedges.

The boss solution is to use Dante... but sadly very few FOH desks are equipped with the cards. A single Cat 5 and you’re good.

Actually, if the FOH is a X32 or Midas you could do a split using AES/EBU. The chances of you having somebody clued up or prepared to allow you to reroute though... again, slim chance.

[stingrayPete1977]

I decided to try out my in ears last night, I didn't want to try the band on them without the proper practice run and level check we've got planned but as I'd got backline anyway I thought I'd give mine a whirl, even without a dedicated iem mix but just some sends thrown at a spare aux out within three songs it sounded great! 

Can't wait to get the whole band on them and the amps,cabs, wedges and power leads all out the way.

[EBS_freak]

13 hours ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

I decided to try out my in ears last night, I didn't want to try the band on them without the proper practice run and level check we've got planned but as I'd got backline anyway I thought I'd give mine a whirl, even without a dedicated iem mix but just some sends thrown at a spare aux out within three songs it sounded great! 

Can't wait to get the whole band on them and the amps,cabs, wedges and power leads all out the way.

A revelation? Looking forward to the debrief over a pie meet at Rugeley.

I remember the first gig I did on my first set of IEMs and I was cursing myself that I had done so many gigs without them. Certainly can’t imagine living without them now.

Did you make use of the split desk we set up last time at the pie meet? Was your bass EQ phat?! And what about the kick? Presumably you compressed it nicely? Gated/non gated? Oh man, excited for you dude.

You still working on Jim ditching the amp?

Edited January 2, 2019 by EBS_freak

[stingrayPete1977]

Defo pie, chuck me some days over. 

No I just tapped into the usual mix and it's setup for that venue and using backline, it didn't sound bad at all and I'm not sure if my amp was even post EQ! 

I'll get Jim off that old amp soon. 

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

Defo pie, chuck me some days over. 

No I just tapped into the usual mix and it's setup for that venue and using backline, it didn't sound bad at all and I'm not sure if my amp was even post EQ! 

I'll get Jim off that old amp soon. 

Will do. Will get tax return out of the way this week and get back to you.

Ah yeah - I'm guessing the mix template that we setup hasn't been migrated to live use yet! That's what the tech rehearsal is for! Dropping the monitors will clean things up now end...and if you can get silent stage apart from the drums, jobs a goodun. Your feedback issues will be a thing of the past...  (well, apart from at the H&J where the low roof and the brick wall right in front of you is a bit of a nightmare!). My headaches are always from cymbal spill into the vocal mics... maybe 2019 will be the year I finally invest in the drum screens.... (depends how busy the diary looks).

Yeah, mini Helix stomp thing for the win!

[JimBobTTD]

I have had a good read of most of the thread's early and later pages but not found the info I am after...apologies if it has been addressed before. There is a lot of info about IEMs themselves, but I could not find much about systems. 

Here is my problem: I cannot hear myself when I gig. Some gigs are better than others, I'll admit, but we had one a few months back where I could not hear a single note I was playing. The last gig I mostly "felt" the bass rather than hearing it. It is making me not enjoy myself. Is it the sound guy? Maybe. It might even be me. My bandmates can often hear me very well, but I cannot. Sound check tends to be acceptable but not brilliant, but it worsens when the gig starts. I have tried moving around, but space is limited and it has not helped me. 

Are IEMs the solution? But, to make it more difficult: We play multi-band nights, mostly, so I cannot get an XLR from the desk. I could mic up a monitor, though. I play mostly through the house's backline (with a DI out from the amp) or DI to the desk; I have not gigged with my own amp since 2015. 

We do not gig all that often, but things are heating up a bit. But music is my main hobby and I hate how I don't enjoy it as much as I should or did once. Hence, I do not want to spend too much cash, but I don't mind spending some...if that is clear!

Any tips?

[EBS_freak]

I suspect that your difficulty in hearing definition may be down to your EQ on your bass amp. You are probably pushing a lot of bass and as a consequence, finding it difficult to hear the difference in the notes because all the clarity is found within the mids. Of course, if you aren't using front of house support, you taking a load of bass out of your amp may impact the sound of your band considerably - although it may alter it for the better as it may clean up the low end and give the audience the opportunity to hear actual notes in the low end.

IEMs will help -if you can find a decent way to integrate them into your setup - they will certainly give you the clarity that you are looking for... but like the above, getting the feed your require may give you some problems. Are you getting any monitor feeds at all? Something like a UE sound tap may be a useful investment. Just ask the sound guy to unplug the monitor and plug it into your UE Sound Tap - therefore, whether powered or unpowered monitors, you should be able to tap into the monitor mix (assuming there is one).

As an alternative.... What may be worth trying is a simple mixer, a feed from your bass into the mixer and a through onto front of house (for example a DI box can do this - plug your bass in to the DI box, through into amp, DI to mixing desk and then use the amp DI to go FOH). Then on another channel of the mixer, a condenser mic on a mic stand positioned somewhere on stage to pick up what else is going on onstage - OK, it won't give you a perfect mix... but will give you similar to what you are hearing at the moment... but with added clarity in the bass... and the option to EQ and control volume.

You will need good IEMs for clarity though... the good old ZS10s are a great starting point. You are probably looking at £150 max (can probably get it for less than £100 with some savvy buying) to try something like this out.

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by EBS_freak