In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[JimBobTTD]

Thank you, EBS_Freak. 

I was a bit unclear, I now see. The venue's soundguy takes care of the mix and the monitors. I always ask for more bass, often asking for more mids in my bass sound rather than more volume. As for the house amp, I try to cut the bass, boost the low mids and leave the treble flat. But more often than not, there is no house amp and I go straight to the desk. The house usually has their own DI, so I end up with a cable from my pedalboard (which has a DI on it!) to their DI. My pedalboard is EQed to have lots of mids, relatively flat bass. The FOH sound tends to be good, though, with the crowd happy and able to hear the bass clearly. It's the on-stage sound that is poor and muddy. 

I shall look into the ZS10s and a condenser mic - thanks for the tips. Any suggestions for an IEM system? I mean that box that sends the signal to the receiver into which the ZS10s would be plugged. 

[EBS_freak]

51 minutes ago, JimBobTTD said:

Thank you, EBS_Freak. 

I was a bit unclear, I now see. The venue's soundguy takes care of the mix and the monitors. I always ask for more bass, often asking for more mids in my bass sound rather than more volume. As for the house amp, I try to cut the bass, boost the low mids and leave the treble flat. But more often than not, there is no house amp and I go straight to the desk. The house usually has their own DI, so I end up with a cable from my pedalboard (which has a DI on it!) to their DI. My pedalboard is EQed to have lots of mids, relatively flat bass. The FOH sound tends to be good, though, with the crowd happy and able to hear the bass clearly. It's the on-stage sound that is poor and muddy. 

I shall look into the ZS10s and a condenser mic - thanks for the tips. Any suggestions for an IEM system? I mean that box that sends the signal to the receiver into which the ZS10s would be plugged. 

Depending upon the desk, when you ask for more bass, or a change in EQ, there's probably little he can do for because unless he is running a separate monitor desk, he can only change the EQ of the bass so that it also impacts FOH - which he won't want to do - or by changing the EQ of the total monitor mix, which means if he adds lower mids, he adds it to your bass... and everything else which is going through that monitor.

Can you tell us whats going on with your board, it may be the case that theres stuff going on that's adding in lots of low end fluff - something like and octaver or something? Or is the indecipherable notes all the time, even with no fx?

When you say IEM system, I presume you are talking wireless? I would avoid going wireless until you have proven the concept. Decent wireless is expensive (budget 700+ plus). If you are going down the mixer route, you can run it all from the headphone out of the mixing desk, using a headphone extension as required. Failing that, go for something like the Behringer P2 powered belt clip headphone amp. You can get those for under £30 now.

[jrixn1]

1 hour ago, JimBobTTD said:

I shall look into the ZS10s and a condenser mic - thanks for the tips. Any suggestions for an IEM system? I mean that box that sends the signal to the receiver into which the ZS10s would be plugged. 

Also see this thread - https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/304769-ambient-in-ear-mix-on-a-budget-zoom-h2n-recorder-and-in-ear-monitors/

 

[EBS_freak]

Oh yeah - good call on the zoom. I set up a keyboard friend of mine up on a H6 - inbuilt mic and lots of options in terms of inputs to get better control over the key things that you want to hear. I see that the cost of the H6 has come down some what too since back then - you can pick them up for circa 250... which when you consider it includes the mic and mixer and headphone amp element, is maybe not too shabby... and also has the added attraction of being a multichannel field recorder.

[JimBobTTD]

37 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Depending upon the desk, when you ask for more bass, or a change in EQ, there's probably little he can do for because unless he is running a separate monitor desk, he can only change the EQ of the bass so that it also impacts FOH - which he won't want to do - or by changing the EQ of the total monitor mix, which means if he adds lower mids, he adds it to your bass... and everything else which is going through that monitor.

Can you tell us whats going on with your board, it may be the case that theres stuff going on that's adding in lots of low end fluff - something like and octaver or something? Or is the indecipherable notes all the time, even with no fx?

When you say IEM system, I presume you are talking wireless? I would avoid going wireless until you have proven the concept. Decent wireless is expensive (budget 700+ plus). If you are going down the mixer route, you can run it all from the headphone out of the mixing desk, using a headphone extension as required. Failing that, go for something like the Behringer P2 powered belt clip headphone amp. You can get those for under £30 now.

I see...thanks. This would explain why the soundguy cannot increase the volume of my bass. 

The board: compressor, overdrive and chorus (with X-over so only on the higher register) always on. Distortion. Preamp always on (with bass around 9-12 o'clock, mids at 3 o'clock). Thumpinator to remove the lowest of low frequencies. I don't think that my sound is boomy sludge. I hear myself clearly enough in the soundcheck, but it is not loud enough. 

Yes, I meant the wireless jobby. Thanks for the tip...I shall look into a wired solution to see if it solves the problem. No point shelling out for wireless gear if it does not actually help! 

[EBS_freak]

Is your band loud?

Theres nothing particular in your FX that would cause issues for you - although the distortion may be robbing you of bottom end.

What amp/cab are you using?

[JimBobTTD]

The band is only as loud as the soundguy will allow...which is not all that loud, truth be told. 

I normally go straight to the desk via the house's DI, but if I get an amp, it is whatever the house backline is. A 15" Hughes & Kettner last time, but I one had a Peavey monster with 6x10" cab on quite a large stage. That was the only time I heard myself properly! 

[JimBobTTD]

Ooh...someone local is selling a lightly used LD Systems MEIOne for the same price as the Behringer P2. Worth it, or one to avoid?

[EBS_freak]

Just now, JimBobTTD said:

The band is only as loud as the soundguy will allow...which is not all that loud, truth be told. 

I normally go straight to the desk via the house's DI, but if I get an amp, it is whatever the house backline is. A 15" Hughes & Kettner last time, but I one had a Peavey monster with 6x10" cab on quite a large stage. That was the only time I heard myself properly! 

Maybe the H&K is not up to it. If it's a entry level H&K, I'm not actually surprised - they are not particularly potent amps. It's quite a common thing with house backline... you always seem to get something OK for guitars... but the budget saving always comes down on the bass amp. If you aren't in control of the quality of the amps, it may be prudent to make your own arrangements anyway! That 610, even with fairly inefficient speakers, is going to be shifting a lot more air... and more towards your head level!

[EBS_freak]

1 minute ago, JimBobTTD said:

Ooh...someone local is selling a lightly used LD Systems MEIOne for the same price as the Behringer P2. Worth it, or one to avoid?

I know some people like their LDs. I personally would go wired because it will not mess with your lowend or top end by introducing a cheap compander. At least with wired, you are not introducing another unknown into your setup... for example, you can't hear you bass - is that because the bass isn't actually making it through the wireless compander in one piece - or to your liking?

[JimBobTTD]

Understood. Thanks! I'll look at the Behringer P2 again. 

[la bam]

I'm struggling a bit with the right ear off my zs10 set up. It's much looser than the left.

Does anyone know where you can buy replacement ear (buds? - sorry I've forgot the name) of different sizes so I can get a good fit?

Edited January 3, 2019 by la bam

[EBS_freak]

3 minutes ago, la bam said:

I'm struggling a bit with the right ear off my zs10 set up. It's much looser than the left.

Does anyone know where you can buy replacement ear (buds? - sorry I've forgot the name) of different sizes so I can get a good fit?

Yes. Amazon is as good as anywhere. Search for eartips, comply tips or spinfits are usually a good bet depending upon your preference for foam or silicon. It's all personal though - everybody tends to have their favourite. Some inear buffs get pretty obsessive about them.

Edited January 3, 2019 by EBS_freak

[la bam]

perfect, cheers!

[JimBobTTD]

Sorry to noob up the thread...tips for a mixer so I can mix my bass DI with a condenser microphone so I can send the signal up the Behringer P2? I just need those two channels and an XLR output. 

[EBS_freak]

15 minutes ago, JimBobTTD said:

Sorry to noob up the thread...tips for a mixer so I can mix my bass DI with a condenser microphone so I can send the signal up the Behringer P2? I just need those two channels and an XLR output. 

Something simple like a Behringer Xeynx 802  will do. Phantom for your condenser.

Why do you need the XLR output? Jack to XLR will do you for your mixer to P2.

[JimBobTTD]

8 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Something simple like a Behringer Xeynx 802  will do. Phantom for your condenser.

Why do you need the XLR output? Jack to XLR will do you for your mixer to P2.

Of course! I think I need to have a lie down. 

Thank you for the continued advice. I shall report back here how it all goes. 

[andysg42]

Evening Russ . New Year ,New question 🙏 .do those Comply soft wraps work ? I am finding it really annoying when I move my mouth,singing . with my iems in ,I lose the seal and with that about 50% of the bass signal !! just wondering if these Comply things work and might give me a tighter seal .? Even though I hated the ACS IEMS ,Did actually like there soft silicon shells ,even if they took 5 minutes to get in each ear 😂😂. Any ideas welcome. cheers Russ and a happy new year 🥂 

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, andysg42 said:

Evening Russ . New Year ,New question 🙏 .do those Comply soft wraps work ? I am finding it really annoying when I move my mouth,singing . with my iems in ,I lose the seal and with that about 50% of the bass signal !! just wondering if these Comply things work and might give me a tighter seal .? Even though I hated the ACS IEMS ,Did actually like there soft silicon shells ,even if they took 5 minutes to get in each ear 😂😂. Any ideas welcome. cheers Russ and a happy new year 🥂 

HNY to you!

I haven’t really used them much as strictly speaking, you shouldnt really need them if the fit is correct. Two things may be the issue - you aren’t quite pushing the moulds deep enough into your ear, or the fit isn’t quite right - a little build up of acrylic will make all the difference.

[mrtcat]

3 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

HNY to you!

I haven’t really used them much as strictly speaking, you shouldnt really need them if the fit is correct. Two things may be the issue - you aren’t quite pushing the moulds deep enough into your ear, or the fit isn’t quite right - a little build up of acrylic will make all the difference.

I used the comply wraps with my previous custom moulds which stopped fitting properly after I lost some weight. I found them really uncomfortable and ended up using an acrylic nail polish on the moulds instead. That really helped but ultimately I got new in ears that fitted better and now the problem is solved.

[alexgrout_]

I use Sennheiser G2 into Shure Se215 and we have a behringer x32 mixer which I can connect to with my iPad. I have complete control over my mix in my ears. Lots of bass and my vox and kick and snare. Works great. The senn has a lot of headroom. I only have it on about 50% and the sound isolation I get from the se215 iem means that the sound in my ears is less than FOH. With this iPad solution I control my ears not the engineer. I recommend the triple flange buds as they go deep in your ears. When they are new they hurt a bit for a few minutes but they soon adjust to your ear shape. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by alexgrout_

[EBS_freak]

11 hours ago, alexgrout_ said:

I use Sennheiser G2 into Shure Se215 and we have a behringer x32 mixer which I can connect to with my iPad. I have complete control over my mix in my ears. Lots of bass and my vox and kick and snare. Works great. The senn has a lot of headroom. I only have it on about 50% and the sound isolation I get from the se215 iem means that the sound in my ears is less than FOH. With this iPad solution I control my ears not the engineer. I recommend the triple flange buds as they go deep in your ears. When they are new they hurt a bit for a few minutes but they soon adjust to your ear shape. 

Cool... that's the idea! Although if you change your se215s for some ZS10s (less than 40 quid), you'll suddenly discover a whole world of bass response that your haven't been getting through a set of 215s. Be wary though - it may set you off on a journey of IEM addiction.

[intime-nick]

I was at the first rehearsal with another band last night without my IEMs (was using some ACS Pro17 plugs) - awful, just awful - I am so used to being able to hear myself in glorious stereo that it made the whole experience pretty difficult (as an aside, it also reminded me how bloody loud acoustic drums and cymbals are - having a drummer with a very nice e-kit in the other band makes me appreciate that setup even more - plus the e-kit sounds so much better)

as they don't have any way of running an IEM mix off the desk (it's a bit primative to say the least and i will be pushing them to upgrade at the earliest possible opportunity), I have just tried the Zoom recorder idea mentioned above and it might be a reasonable work-around for now.  I have an old Zoom H1 recorder with stereo mics, variable input gain and 1/8" TRS out - just tried it with my P1 and UE6's and, whilst it won't give me a dedicated mix, it will at least allow me to control the volume.

how anyone plays in a loud band without IEMs is beyond me - having gone back to the 'dark side' for one practice has proved what i already knew and i really don't want to go back to that again

[EBS_freak]

Hey Nick. Yeah. Indeed - I have to think carefully about gigs I do without the provision for IEMs. I just don't enjoy them. Same with limiters... I can cope with a dull gig with a limiter with inears... but otherwise, nah, not worth the hassle for the amount of enjoyment I get out of them. Maybe it's an age thing, maybe it's that I demand more from gigs than just turning up and getting paid.

So XR18 time for the new band? £350. It's cheaper than most mixers with a decent number of XLR inputs and onboard FX. Even factoring in the cost of a tablet or old laptop, it's still fiercely competitive for what it can do.

The Zoom hack is basically a clunky version of what the Live System is doing with regard to ambient sound. It does the job for what it's trying to do I guess. In other words, better than not having it. Talking of which, I do still use my ACS very occasionally (now that I've had the cable fixed AGAIN) for earplugs with a variable level (that's if the SPL isn't too high for the mics) as it's better than earplugs in regard to the sound quality and the not messing with the frequencies like a traditional ear plug does (despite what the advertising says).

[intime-nick]

Hi Russ - indeed, we have an XR18 in the other band - it's a great bit of kit for the money and that's what i'll be pushing them to get.  I've already planted the seeds of a much quieter backline / more FOH setup to achieve a more balanced/controlled/professional sound and the singer is keen on using IEMs as well - just the pesky guitarist and drummer to work on !!  It's still early days but i will persuade them somehow (i did it with the other band so i'll try the same approach with this one)

You would be amazed at their current PA setup - i haven't seen Marshall passive 12" tops and a powered 'mixer' that old for a VERY long time !!  250W of pure power.....

Edited January 4, 2019 by intime-nick