EBS_freak Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 OK - comfort - it all comes down to how sensitive your ears are and how good the fit is. From what I can tell, the ACS have a more immediate comfort about them. Acrylics can be a bit of a shock to the ear to begin with but as you get used to them, I would say comfortwise, neither bother me, acrylic or silicon. Some guys say there is no difference, some say acrylic is painful, some say that the attenuation from a silicon plug is better... but it's all down to the individual. Silicon probably has it for me slightly on the comfort side at a push... but it's also about what drivers are in the IEM and the features on top (e.g. the mics in the T1) I went for the T1 lives from the word go because I figured that if I ever wanted to get the ambient pack, paying the difference from the word go would be a hell of a lot cheaper than a remould and introduction of the mic elements. I figured if I didn't use the ambient pack, the added cost of the mics was fairly minimal in the grand scale of things. The ambient pack is a pricey bit of kit - it may drop in price once the have recovered some of the costs of development... but I don't know. At the moment, I still think they are struggling to supply them fast enough and I know a fair few people chomping at the bit to get them. I guess in summing up the performance of the T1s with the ambient pack is as follows - 1. for gigs where the sound is like you are in a swimming baths, forget the ambient pack because all you are going to do is introduce mush into your nice clean ambient mix. 2. for gigs where the sound is dead - like a marquee for example, the ambient pack doesn't really add that much apart from a positional image on stage... e.g. you walk closer to the drummer, he gets louder. It won't give you that big gig feeling... it will still sound pretty dead unless you are introducing reverbs from your desk mix. 3. for gigs where there is a natural amount of ambient reverb = magic. The blending of the the desk mix with the ambient sound from the venue is sublime. It doesn't really get much better. Ambient mics around stage or open mics don't really capture what this system captures. It's sublime. Simple as. 4. for gigs where there is no IEM feed. I've used the ambient pack as a variable volume control ear plug. Very cool. Great for leaving in after the gig also just so you protect your ears yet can still hear whats going on about you. I've actually worn these to a gig in the audience... and they sound ace. 5. Guitar amps sounds magic through the ambient pack. A close miced amp sounds rubbish in a monitor mix compared to hearing the amp through the ambient pack. OK, this all depends where you are compared to the guitar amp but guitarists should love hearing themselves through a Tx/Live setup. In terms what would I do... well... it depends upon the gig... and how many you do of each type that I have mentioned above. If you play swimming pools every week, the ambient pack isn't going to do what you want it to do. Similarly if you are playing marquees - you may aswell stick with the mic bleed. If you enjoy moving around, and hearing the audience and having the ability to sense where the sound is coming from, then you'll love them. I suppose in short, they aren't the be all and end all... but they are the icing on the cake if you want the best you can get. The other thing is, if you haven't got the luxury of adding reverb into your mix the ambient pack is a good way of addressing the problem and making your personal mix more natural sounding. I do a lot of gigs and change my monitoring based on my experience of playing similar gigs. I guess I would be sad to lose the ambient pack... but I could live without it... but nobody wants to do that after using one. The T1s aren't actually my favourite sounding IEM (I actually like a more bass biased sound but I know that ACS aren't keen on adding drivers as their ethos is more about protecting your ears than blasting them (I can sympathise as a fellow T suffer)) but they offer something in the ambient pack that none of the others offer. I guess it depends on budget and what you really want to end up with it. Remember, you will have another pack to wear - it's like wearing another pack of cards on your waist... and it's another couple of AAs to worry about - however, I must stress that the ambient pack is completely pass through, so if the ambient pack dies, the signal coming in from your Sennheiser system will continue into your IEMs no problem. PS - you're hooked. My advice is, don't be afraid to spend because you will always regret it if you don't. Save up and get it right first time. You can't do effective wireless IEMs on the cheap. Those who say that they can, aren't getting the full experience. You've done well with scoring the Sennheiser G2. It's a great system - I've currently got a G2 in my stable too - whilst it's got a slightly higher noise floor than the G3, the cost to change isn't going to be worth it I don't think... so all is good there. Concentrate on getting the stuff in your ears right... because thats where you are now going to hear the biggest difference. If you are running out of auxes (if your singer gets on board), you may want to look at potentially running in mono, running two receivers off a stereo transmitter. I know it's not as good but if you do go down the ambient pack route, you will then get your sense of stereo back. Again, it all stems back to your source... the desk. As I said, you can't do IEMs to their best ability on the cheap :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr zed Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Brilliant - thanks for that. Extremely useful, in-depth and sage-like as always. It amazes me how much time and effort some people are prepared to put in to help other people that they have never even met. This for me is what Basschat is all about. Thanks again Russ and yes, I do believe that I'm hooked. Oh dear....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjelkeman Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 EBS_freak, looked through the thread. Sorry if I missed it, but do you have a list of the IEM gear you are using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 (edited) my favoured "go to" current system is - GB Bass -> Shure ULXD1 -> Shure ULXD4 -> TD650 (DI out, or in parallel with an Orchid Electronics DI) -> A&H AR2412 -> A&H GLD80 (Stereo Aux, with processing for EQ, reverb, compression etc) -> Shure P9T (PSM900 transmitter) -> Shure P9RA (PSM900 Receiver) -> ACS Ambient Pack -> ACS T1 Lives! Vocals -> Sennheiser SKM500-945 -> Sennheiser A1031-U -> Sennheiser ASA1-> Sennheiser EM500 G3 -> A&H AR84 -> etc... Edited April 17, 2014 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjelkeman Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Thanks! Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoJoKe Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 I've not chipped in here for a while, as we have just been "getting on" with what we could afford, but with issues. The main issue is that our desk was too small to provide enough mic Pre's to mic everything up, and only has 2 Auxes, so we couldn't have our own mixes. To overcome this the drummer [size=4]temporarily opted to go back to a monitor which is being fed directly from the FOH mix, which he has been happy with.[/size] The guitarist and I are now using a single LD MEI1000 transmitter with Shure315's, which works fine and we will continue to do this, because the LD has the ability to use each of the two channels to provide separate mono mixes. Cheap, effective, what's not to love! Our "hearing everything" issue is just about to be put right with the impending delivery of a Behringer X32 Producer (they are available at a STUPID price until 7th March from a company in Essex, message me if you want the details!). Once set up, we will mic everything, the drummer will revert to headphones, but wired, using a headphone amp, and the guitarist and I will stay as we are unless we're feeling a bit richer! We will then be able to have our own mix, with the ability to control it from our iphone/android/pc/mac. The desk hopefully arrives on Thursday, I'll update once we have had the opportunity to test the theory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 That's great news. The X32 is a great piece of kit and if you are getting it at the right price, even better. I think it'll bring a big smile to your face once you start assigning some effects to your in ears - and I think you'll love the ability to fine tune your mix with eq etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoJoKe Posted March 3, 2014 Author Share Posted March 3, 2014 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1393855079' post='2385029'] That's great news. The X32 is a great piece of kit and if you are getting it at the right price, even better. I think it'll bring a big smile to your face once you start assigning some effects to your in ears - and I think you'll love the ability to fine tune your mix with eq etc. [/quote] Can't wait! I've bought a new router already! I have also read somewhere on their support forum that the X32 still talks to Logic8/Mac on PPC, so looking forward to testing the theory that it will also allow me to postpone the need to upgrade my studio G5 for a little while longer, as am now feeling a bit skint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassadder Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 Hi Guys I've been following this thread and thought I'd throw in my experience. I have a set of Ultimate Ears UE7-Pros and a Sennheiser G3, I run my basses from a Stageclix in to an Avalon U5 straight in to a X32 and run a through in to an Aguliar DB751 and DB212. I use an iPad to control my own mix. I sing BV's and use a Sennheiser e865. The sound is wonderful and for anyone who's interested it's definitely worth it, everything is clear, rich and precise and unless you are using optigates on the mic's there's a nice level of ambience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 [color="#282828"]MoJoKe - worked it all out yet?[/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoJoKe Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Crikey give us a chance! Just finished work and about to settle down to suss it all out... Does anyone know how I'm going to be able to set up a foot switch to toggle the vocal reverb between numbers? Doing it by hand on a phone/tablet just isn't going to cut it so [size=4]I'm guessing something else I'll need to buy... [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Presumably you don't want to touch the desk at any point... so... Easiest way is probably with an A/B XLR box - and route your mic to 2 channels, one with reverb, one without. It's quite useful as you can set the volume differently and EQ the voice differently for singing vs speaking too. Of course, you would need two wire runs for each vocalist if you wanted to all speak between numbers - and this may eat up your channels pretty quick. Or... you could set up an alternative scene that is identical to your "playing" scene but without the reverb. You could switch between scenes via MIDI. The MIDI implementation on X32 doesn't seem that clever at the moment. It may improve with firmware updates. I'm sure you could get some pretty small like the MIDI mouse to do it. In short, not going to be cheapest for just switching reverb on or off. - I don't think these things are not necessarily designed to be unmanned. Umm, that's me out of ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoJoKe Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1394186849' post='2388808'] - I don't think these things are not necessarily designed to be unmanned. [/quote] This is the problem. They have been shrunk from the big brother, which was borne of the mighty Midas, and they didn't look at their range of "small format" analogue desks (of which probably 90% are sat at the side of the stage, like we do) before finalising the featureset to see what might be fundamentally missing! Stupidly the default setting provides a manual mute switch for the reverb in effects slot 1 on the 1st "Assign" button, but you apparently cannot even toggle this with MIDI yet, let alone kick a switch! From what I can see, your thought adds a 4th option as the others are: 1. Use Midi to swap between 2 scenes, one with reverb, one without, but this requires £70-80 minimum spent on a midi pedal [size=4]2. Use a tablet/phone (no more practical than running to the desk between songs![/size] [size=4]3. Apparently you can do some clever things with the "Ducking" function of the Gate, which, in theory would allow you to turn the Reverb off fully automatically, or at worst using a latching footswitch on a Y cable across an Aux in/out, but this seems to require a degree in X32 and audio science to achive![/size] [size=4]Anyone else got any ideas?[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 20, 2014 Share Posted March 20, 2014 Hows the desk working out? In other news, tonyf is about to be very naughty...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoJoKe Posted March 21, 2014 Author Share Posted March 21, 2014 Hi! For our fist couple of gigs I was a bit stressed about mixing, having for so long been able to see the position of everything in one view on the old analogue desk, Switching between layers and learning to accept that "what may not be working properly" will undoubtedly not be on the current layer has taken some getting used to! At the soundcheck for our fist gig I had everything sounding amazing... best ever mix, but couldn't mute or solo any channels until I realised after a good 10 minutes of stressing that one of the IEM busses was also routing to the main LR output! Gah! I managed to get a latching footswitch working to mute vocal effects on the main reverb bus, simply but using an insert to aux1 Out, through the switch and back in on aux 1 In, which did the job, but a bit clunky. I did some testing with midi using my old E-MU board25, which allowed quite a lot of parameters to be controlled, so I've borrowed a KMI SoftStep/Midi expander from my good friends at MSL. After 2 nights of p*ssing about and trying to get its totally rubbishy editor software working on my laptop (I discovered you have to click "download" at least twice for any program change if you want the pedal to actually [i][b]do [/b][/i]anything!!), I have succeeded in turning on muting on the bus; a much more grown up outcome. Now I just need to work out what else it would be useful to do with the 7-8 functions on the other 9 buttons, on 12 layers, on the softstep (I think in total you can theoretically control about 840 different actions!!). It would be great to be able to control the stage lighting as well as the desk, but this might just be being too adventurous! Since it would cost about £120 anyway to have a single function MIDI toggle switch (Tech21 Mouse, just to do the same job as an old fashioned analogue latching footswitch for £10), my thoughts are that it is probably worth the extra £80 for the massive potential of the SoftStep... And it looks pretty damned cool too!! What have you persuaded tonyf to buy now? [size=4] [/size][size=4]haha![/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I couldn't possibly steal Tony's thunder... but there's a great pic of him out on the interwebs with his ears full of gunk! (with a tampon string hanging out) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Tony's new toys look amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Having another play around with monitoring setups and was looking at running my existing IEM transmitters in mono instead of stereo and running the packs in focus mode to effectively double the amount of monitor feeds available running the existing transmitters (obv would need to up the number or receivers.) Would be interested in Tony's experience of using his stereo transmitters for 2 mono feeds because the PSM900 doesn't run that great as a solution for two mono feeds. Whilst I still think it's the best out there for stereo, when running in focus mode, there is still a bit of leak between channels. Shure stipulate in their documentation, that it's only ever intended as a "more me" mode as opposed to a true mono mix. So there you go... but after some research, I found that the db difference between channels for a P9R is 20dB and that is increased to 60dB for the P9RA. I was aware of the gain option difference between the two packs (you can run a P9RA for longer cos you can run the gain lower but still maintain the required power to drive your inears) but this was a new one on me. I run a mixture of the two packs and whilst the the P9RA's seperation is better, I still think the Sennheiser EW300s I have are better for seperation to use two packs for mono IEMs. This may not mean a lot to a great people - but it could be useful when determining your bands IEM strategy. Got another PSM900 incoming - but now at the point where I'm struggling for spectrum. Channels 38 and 70 are looking rammed right now... adding any more channels is going to bring with it a whole host of intermodulation issues I can tell! Any more monitoring feeds are going to have to be wired! (that's what comes from running a ruck load of wireless mics, wireless guitar transmitters and wireless IEMs I guess :/ ) EDIT: aha. Been doing some reading. True seperation of stereo for two mono feeds not entirely possible! I get it now. Edited April 23, 2014 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 OK - so I know somebody who has just dropped cash for an AKG IVM4500 - am looking forward to checking this out as it has onboard DSP that gives a simulated ambient room sound and also a nice dbx compressor. Will be intrigued because this is potentially a great solution when you aren't using your own desk and a sound engineer at a venue can at best send you just a dry as bones bare aux mix. It's a comparable price to the PSM900 so I'm obviously interested in it's pure sound quality compared to the PSM900 and EW300 in addition to the added feature set that it has in the DSP department which the Shure or Sennheiser stuff hasn't got. In other news, Tonyf? Where are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayste_2000 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Hi all, Really interested in this as I've recently switched to using my iPad for my amp and fx sims live and of course monitors were an issue. I've run wireless IEM on the cheap before but the band had it's own mixer and would split all signals on stage but that was same band every night and a very controlled setup. So I'm comfortable with the concept and like the rolling light idea with the ipad and wireless midi controller so I just need some decent monitoring and as little to implement around it as possible. At the moment I feel my only option because I play in a lot of projects is something with ambient mics in the IEM or in a pack (however it works) because the setups vary so much it's going to be a nightmare to get a soundman to do my mix or split stuff to do it myself and again this adds a lot of gear to my setup and I just want to be walking in with my gigbag and man bag (because I'm a man). Is this a viable option? Is ACS the best/only brand for the ambient system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 The options that you could do are (if I understood correctly) - Use external condenser mics into a little mixer that you can mix with your ipad output and then pipe out to your IEMs (either directly or via ambient pack). You could go wirelessly however the "ambientness" would be of a fixed position and not move with you. (For example, if you walk closer to the drums, they won't get louder... this can be a good and bad thing however!) As far as ambient pack solutions are concerned, there are two options. Sensaphonics and ACS. The ACS system is more advanced than the Sensaphonics system (there is a link between the two companies historically but that's one for another day). The other option is to use an Audio Technica M3, that has an aux input for an external mic (just clip it onto your collar or something) on the beltpack. Finally, you could go for a ported IEM with an adjustable port for allowing the appropriate amount of ambient sound in. However, be aware, that having a port on an IEM will sacrifice you bass response... For me, ported IEMs are never a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Heres the Sensaphonics system - [url="http://www.sensaphonics.com/3d-hw"]http://www.sensaphonics.com/3d-hw[/url] [url="http://www.acscustom.com/uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=117&Itemid=91"]http://www.acscustom.com/uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=117&Itemid=91[/url] - here's the T1 Lives - note, you need to buy the ambient pack on top. Here's my pack - As for ported, here's pretty much the top you can buy at the moment - [url="http://www.jhaudio.com/product/ambient-fr"]http://www.jhaudio.com/product/ambient-fr[/url] - good luck getting anything from JH Audio at the moment though - waiting lists have gone through the roof (my order for a set of JH IEMs has been in for over 6 months already) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tayste_2000 Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1398690378' post='2436571'] The options that you could do are (if I understood correctly) - Use external condenser mics into a little mixer that you can mix with your ipad output and then pipe out to your IEMs (either directly or via ambient pack). You could go wirelessly however the "ambientness" would be of a fixed position and not move with you. (For example, if you walk closer to the drums, they won't get louder... this can be a good and bad thing however!) As far as ambient pack solutions are concerned, there are two options. Sensaphonics and ACS. The ACS system is more advanced than the Sensaphonics system (there is a link between the two companies historically but that's one for another day). The other option is to use an Audio Technica M3, that has an aux input for an external mic (just clip it onto your collar or something) on the beltpack. Finally, you could go for a ported IEM with an adjustable port for allowing the appropriate amount of ambient sound in. However, be aware, that having a port on an IEM will sacrifice you bass response... For me, ported IEMs are never a good idea. [/quote] Yep you understood perfectly, option 1 is too much gear for me to carry for what I want. I've heard some quality control issues with ACS are they a pretty good company to deal with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 (edited) Quality controls in terms of what? The primary concern historically would be the cables - but they have been beefed up now, especially on the T1 and T2 lives as they come with interchangeable cables - they are required for the ACS live system anyway as the T1s come with a standard jack socket and the the live system comes with a multipin connector to change in your monitors. (The latter also comes with an adaptor to change the multipin to a standard jack so you can still use them with your ipod etc without changing the cable every time). I think it's like everything though - look after your gear. If you shove them in your pocket, then obviously risk of damage is greatly increased. ACS build time was amazing too... I had mine in under 3 weeks. I have been currently waiting over 6 months for a set of JH Audios... Edited April 28, 2014 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyf Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1398684855' post='2436471'] In other news, Tonyf? Where are you? [/quote] Ok, sorry, sorry, sorry. Just been a bit busy gigging and erm playing with my new 1964 Ears V8s Truly astonishing they are, Russ did his usual trick of convincing me to buy stuff that I hadn't even thought about buying. Gotta say, they've absolutely blown me away. Paul from The Custom IEM Company was up in Birmingham so I met up, had the impressions made and he showed me some of the demo pairs he'd got with him and was able to compare the V3s and the V6s with my Shure SE535s. With some advice from him and Russ, decided the V8s were the way to go. Ordered them on a "rush order" and got them 2 1/2 weeks later when I got back from holidays last week. Astonishing they are. So precise, a massive soundstage and just ridiculous amounts of bottom end. The first couple of numbers I played, I could "feel" the bass and kept asking Mrs TonyF if she could hear them. Of course she couldn't because of the isolation. Of course they cost an astonishing amount of money but IMHO, worth every penny. Russ put it succinctly when he said it was like investing in a Bergantino cab for each ear and I truly get this view. It's totally changed my view of IEMs now, I'm seriously wondering whether or not the money I've got invested in my backline could be rationised to a small 1x12 with a micro head and a REALLY good DI such as an Avalon or Radial. In terms of what's behind me on stage, I don't really hear it anymore so it seems pointless in having all that kit. [attachment=161502:v8s close up.jpg] [attachment=161503:v8s case.jpg] [attachment=161505:v8s in case.jpg] [attachment=161507:v8s in ears.jpg] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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