In Ear Monitors - help needed...

[LukeFRC]

3 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

Just ignore me. I'm just being stooooopid.

Will do

[stingrayPete1977]

A heft knob would be really cool! 

[Mottlefeeder]

We put acoustic guitars and vocals through a fairly basic PA, with keys, electric guitar and bass through backline amps. I use resistive DIs to take a feed from the PA speaker, and the speaker lead of my amp, and a Maplins/Tandy electret mic to pick up ambient signals. I feed this to a simple 3-channel mixer, with bass panned left and everything else panned right. The headphone output feeds a belt-mounted junction-box that gives me separate volumes on left and right, and a mono/stereo switch to blend everything together. I'm using shure SE215's. 

The combination of PA feed and mic feed means I can usually get a good mix of the band sound, and I don't have to fiddle with a separate monitor mix on the main mixer that is not within reach.

I can give further details if anyone thinks a similar system would work for them.

David

[stingrayPete1977]

I've bought another pair of KZ ZS10s for home practice and to put in the bag as a spare set for gigs. 

[EBS_freak]

Its the beginning of an addiction...

[Graham]

Our singer finally lost patience with his Behringer X-Air last night and swapped back to an analogue mixer, this one has jack sends for the monitors/aux outs and I only had the left channel working on my IEM - is there a way of fixing that? I'd be happy with a mono source, just want it in both ears

[EBS_freak]

54 minutes ago, Graham said:

Our singer finally lost patience with his Behringer X-Air last night and swapped back to an analogue mixer, this one has jack sends for the monitors/aux outs and I only had the left channel working on my IEM - is there a way of fixing that? I'd be happy with a mono source, just want it in both ears

Sounds like you are running a TRS in a TR socket. What headphone amp are you running or are you powering straight off the aux? Only reason I ask is on things like the P2, there’s a mono switch which basically takes any signal it gets, mono or stereo, and sums it so that the same signal gets applied to L and R on the headphone out.

Why the loss of patience with the digital mixer?

Edited March 17, 2019 by EBS_freak

[Graham]

I'm using a P2, I've just checked the internal switch and it was set to stereo, so I've moved that over to mono.

Our singer couldn't get a stable connection to his phone when using the X-Air, he realised that his Ipad was too old so wasn't running the software properly so was really laggy. He swapped to the mobile apps, but it looks like the mobile apps on Apple are much more limited compared to the Android version - presumably there's only one Android app.

Even then, whilst stood next to it he couldn't get a stable connection - I expect an external router would help, I've suggested it a couple of times, but he's definitely happier back in his comfort zone using an analogue mixer.

[EBS_freak]

External router required! That will solve connection and lag issues.

Theres an independent mixer sw for Android. Think it’s called mix station or something like that.

[stingrayPete1977]

I don't think these desks are suitable for knob twiddlers tbh, once set up properly you shouldn't need the mixer controls anywhere near the singer in the same way you wouldn't have a mixing desk in stage at the front. 

[Graham]

I completely agree, but he's happier and his stress levels are lower, so I'm going to take that as a win.

[intime-nick]

4 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

External router required! That will solve connection and lag issues.

Theres an independent mixer sw for Android. Think it’s called mix station or something like that.

Mix Station Pro - it's worth the few quid you pay for the pro version (the iOS version is also out soon if not already).  As for old ipads not running the s/ware - as Russ has said, it's not the ipad that's the problem (the X-Air software runs on my ancient ipad 2 smoothly and on an atom powered mini-laptop which has less power than my watch) - it's the external router (or rather, lack of) that's the issue.  Buy a bog standard dual band router, run it on 5GHz only (if your tablet/phone supports it) and away you go.  I'm not sure I could handle going back to an analogue desk anymore irrespective of objections from band members - i like my personal stereo IEM feed too much ! (it helps that i also do the sound for our band so it's an easier 'discussion')

[mrtcat]

6 hours ago, intime-nick said:

Mix Station Pro - it's worth the few quid you pay for the pro version (the iOS version is also out soon if not already).  As for old ipads not running the s/ware - as Russ has said, it's not the ipad that's the problem (the X-Air software runs on my ancient ipad 2 smoothly and on an atom powered mini-laptop which has less power than my watch) - it's the external router (or rather, lack of) that's the issue.  Buy a bog standard dual band router, run it on 5GHz only (if your tablet/phone supports it) and away you go.  I'm not sure I could handle going back to an analogue desk anymore irrespective of objections from band members - i like my personal stereo IEM feed too much ! (it helps that i also do the sound for our band so it's an easier 'discussion')

This. 

The XR18 is a cracking little mixer only let down by the WiFi. A cheap dual band router not only solves connection issues it also allows you to secure your connection with a password. 

[DaytonaRik]

On 17/03/2019 at 21:04, mrtcat said:

This. 

The XR18 is a cracking little mixer only let down by the WiFi. A cheap dual band router not only solves connection issues it also allows you to secure your connection with a password. 

This every day of the week and twice on a Sunday - compact, lightweight, extensive feature list, versatile and bang for buck there';s nothing out there that comes close.

[EBS_freak]

2 hours ago, DaytonaRik said:

This every day of the week and twice on a Sunday - compact, lightweight, extensive feature list, versatile and bang for buck there';s nothing out there that comes close.

Agree... although there is the RCF M18... and that has 2.4/5 Ghz onboard wifi... that works!

[CameronJ]

3 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Agree... although there is the RCF M18... and that has 2.4/5 Ghz onboard wifi... that works!

I have come close to pulling the trigger on an M18 a couple of times but backed out simply because for my personal home setup it would be a tad overkill (I'm not in a band)

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by CameronJ

[JimBobTTD]

Here comes a user case!

I bought a pair of KZ ZS10s, a Behringer mixer and a Behringer PM2 personal in-ear monitor. Despite having had them since January, I was only able to test them out yesterday at band practice. 

The set up was this:

Bass to pedalboard, culminating in Mesa Boogie Subway DI. The DI went to the mixer (via a guitar cable...I had left the XLR at home) and the output of the pedal went to my amp. I connected a microphone to the mixer and put it on top of my amp. 

 

Aim

To be able to hear myself better when playing, a problem I have had for a while (especially when gigging). A secondary aim was to reduce overall volume going into my ears. 

 

Results

Mixed. The rubber earpieces in the ZS10s were a little small and I had to put a set of over-ear workman hearing protectors over the top of them to keep out the noise (we are extremely loud - the rehearsal space is tiny and it is impossible to keep volume down). I moved the microphone from on top of my bass amp to somewhere more in the middle of the room; overall sound was better, but it was still a bit difficult to hear the others. The earphones are wired, of course, and my bass strap pulled on them until I moved some excess wire up. Having a cable from the mixer to the Behringer PM2 was extremely uncomfortable; I use a wireless from bass to pedalboard. 

 

Analysis and Next Steps

It would be great to mic up the guitarists and put the vocals in, too, but that would lead to even more cables in the tiny studio and, probably, require a new mixer (the drums come through no problem). I cannot see an alternative, though. Our PA is not strong enough to have the whole band going through it, so I cannot put them all through that and take a feed off it; however, the whole purpose of this exercise was to be able to hear myself when gigging...and we gig in multi-band evenings and it is not possible to predict whether the soundman will be able to give me a personal mix. In other words, I want to be able to make this work with a single microphone as then, if I can get a feed from the mixer when we gig, it will sound even better! 

The ZS10s come with three sets of rubber earpieces. I shall change to the largest size (mediums were on out the pack) and see how that works. I shall make sure that I pull a bit of wire above the strap when I put my bass on. 

I think that it is time to get a wireless kit. It might also be time to look into having personal IEMs made.

 

So...if you are hesitating, stop. Do it. This has all the markings of being something excellent. Thanks for all the help!

[Mottlefeeder]

2 hours ago, JimBobTTD said:

Here comes a user case!

I bought a pair of KZ ZS10s, a Behringer mixer and a Behringer PM2 personal in-ear monitor. Despite having had them since January, I was only able to test them out yesterday at band practice. 

The set up was this:

Bass to pedalboard, culminating in Mesa Boogie Subway DI. The DI went to the mixer (via a guitar cable...I had left the XLR at home) and the output of the pedal went to my amp. I connected a microphone to the mixer and put it on top of my amp. 

 

Aim

To be able to hear myself better when playing, a problem I have had for a while (especially when gigging). A secondary aim was to reduce overall volume going into my ears. 

 

Results

Mixed. The rubber earpieces in the ZS10s were a little small and I had to put a set of over-ear workman hearing protectors over the top of them to keep out the noise (we are extremely loud - the rehearsal space is tiny and it is impossible to keep volume down). I moved the microphone from on top of my bass amp to somewhere more in the middle of the room; overall sound was better, but it was still a bit difficult to hear the others. The earphones are wired, of course, and my bass strap pulled on them until I moved some excess wire up. Having a cable from the mixer to the Behringer PM2 was extremely uncomfortable; I use a wireless from bass to pedalboard. 

 

Analysis and Next Steps

It would be great to mic up the guitarists and put the vocals in, too, but that would lead to even more cables in the tiny studio and, probably, require a new mixer (the drums come through no problem). I cannot see an alternative, though. Our PA is not strong enough to have the whole band going through it, so I cannot put them all through that and take a feed off it; however, the whole purpose of this exercise was to be able to hear myself when gigging...and we gig in multi-band evenings and it is not possible to predict whether the soundman will be able to give me a personal mix. In other words, I want to be able to make this work with a single microphone as then, if I can get a feed from the mixer when we gig, it will sound even better! 

The ZS10s come with three sets of rubber earpieces. I shall change to the largest size (mediums were on out the pack) and see how that works. I shall make sure that I pull a bit of wire above the strap when I put my bass on. 

I think that it is time to get a wireless kit. It might also be time to look into having personal IEMs made.

 

So...if you are hesitating, stop. Do it. This has all the markings of being something excellent. Thanks for all the help!

I've found that a single rubber cup on an earpiece does not give me sufficient isolation, but a multiple cup (Xmas tree) works better. I'm not sure what yours are, but that might be worth checking. As far as the earpiece cable run is concerned, my cables go from the earpiece to the back of my neck, then round the left side of my neck to be clipped to my shirt at the front, then down the left side of my front. This is the only path I have found which keeps the cable away from the bass strap (assuming you are a RH player).

Finally, if you take a feed from the PA, either through a DI designed for speaker use, or from the output (headphone oputput?) of the PA mixer, you can balance the PA and ambient feeds with your bass feed to get the mix you want.

David

[LukeFRC]

I take the cable up my spine, the clip can go on my collar, the plug end can use a belt loop and (in my case) the wired connector can go in my back pocket - meaning any tugs will be on my trousers not the cable of my ears ...

once it’s in place pick your bass up, I doubt the strap will affect it.

the main reason to go up the back though is if eather earpiece falls out then it just rests on your shoulder, easily to hand to put back in. If you go up the front there is some risk it gets tangled in your instrument or is harder to find mid song if it drops out. 

[stingrayPete1977]

Yep up the back for me too, I'm going to get a dual lead made for instrument and in ears. 

Getting the fit right will transform the sound, I've never had such a good bass sound as I do from the KZs once I'd got them in snug. 

Are you getting them right in there? Mouth open and pull your ear backwards whilst using your pointing finger to push the ear piece home? 

[Mottlefeeder]

2 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I take the cable up my spine, the clip can go on my collar, the plug end can use a belt loop and (in my case) the wired connector can go in my back pocket - meaning any tugs will be on my trousers not the cable of my ears ...

once it’s in place pick your bass up, I doubt the strap will affect it.

the main reason to go up the back though is if eather earpiece falls out then it just rests on your shoulder, easily to hand to put back in. If you go up the front there is some risk it gets tangled in your instrument or is harder to find mid song if it drops out. 

We are both routing the earpiece cables to the back of the neck.  The problem I had with taking the cable up my spine was that it was then clamped by the bass strap. If you didn't get the amount of slack right, the earpiece pulls out when you turn your head. Having the slack on the side of your neck keeps it away from the strap, and dropping it down the left front keeps it away from the bass, so it doesn't get clamped except by the clip at your collar. Like you, I  use belt loops to feed it to the umbilical connector, but mine is at the bridge end of my bass strap, because it gives me easier access to adjust the controls.

There is no right or wrong, just different options to consider.

David

[MoJoKe]

New IEM system from LD... 

Looks like they are going further up market... 

https://blog.adamhall.com/en/2019/03/27/press-ld-systems-will-present-the-u500-in-ear-monitoring-systems-at-prolight-sound-as-part-of-their-repositioning/

[JimBobTTD]

1 hour ago, MoJoKe said:

New IEM system from LD... 

Looks like they are going further up market... 

https://blog.adamhall.com/en/2019/03/27/press-ld-systems-will-present-the-u500-in-ear-monitoring-systems-at-prolight-sound-as-part-of-their-repositioning/

Seems interesting. No price point given, though, and hard to gauge...premium or budget-premium prices?

[Osiris]

1 hour ago, MoJoKe said:

New IEM system from LD... 

Looks like they are going further up market... 

https://blog.adamhall.com/en/2019/03/27/press-ld-systems-will-present-the-u500-in-ear-monitoring-systems-at-prolight-sound-as-part-of-their-repositioning/

Looks interesting. I've been gigging the LD MEI1000G2 for several months now, I paid £200 new for it in the black Friday sales. Despite a few warnings on this thread not to bother with budget wireless in ear systems I have to say that I have no regrets. It has excellent sound quality, is very clear sounding and doesn't lack anything in the lows, indeed there is a good sonic weight there, or sound shrill with the highs. I'm using the obligatory KZ ZS10's with it. Wireless in ears for less than £250   I'll write a more detailed review when I get a chance but I can very highly recommend the MEI1000G2. I'm interested to hear what the new u500 system has to offer over the MEI1000G2 and if it's worth potentially upgrading at some point, although I'm so pleased with my set up that I feel no real need to upgrade! 

[EBS_freak]

That's a nice looking piece of kit - and some cool features - I particularly like the low power output option - should help keep the airwaves cleaner and help in the co-ordination of larger wireless deployments.

The only thing that stands out for me is the comment - "96 receiver channels are available to provide mono or stereo operation as required." - I'm reading that as fixed selected frequencies ala the Shure PSM300 - which, I think, is what  LD are gunning for. The ability to have complete control over the frequencies is a big plus for larger deployments.

Keen to hear it... and conversely, know the price point. I'm thinking just under the PSM300... but lets wait and see.