Help me choose a light powerful combo (or cab?) - update: MarkBass CMD121

[mcnach]

Oooh, me likes, a lot!

And... it does do "loud" (sorry, neighbours ).

I remembered I had a small amp stand, one of these foldable contraptions that allow you to take a small guitar combo and put it on the floor angled towards your head... so I found it and it's perfect for the MarkBass as a monitor.

The VPF seems to be some kind of "contour" control, as it's called in other amps, and just like I do with other amps, I will not touch the thing. However, the VLE is very nice! I was trying it with my Jazz on the bridge pickup, and adding a bit of this VLE just adds a bit of... thickness... to the sound. Some kind of treble rolloff, but something else is going on. Maybe I should read the manual

I know I cannot judge an amp like this at home practice volumes, but it's really very nice and it makes me wonder whether there will be a TC RH450 for sale soon.

[xgsjx]

Good to hear you like it.
The VPF ([s]Very Pants[/s] Variable Preshape Filter) scoops the mids & boosts the lows & highs. MB say it's designed for slap players.
THe VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator) rolls the tops off & boosts a little around the 300hz area.
I always seem to end up with the VLE around 9-10 o'clock (even if I start with it off).

Here's what MB say about them...

[color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]The VLE and VPF are useful EQ filters that help you adapt your sound for different styles of music.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]The [/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3][b]VLE [/b][/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]([/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3][b]Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator[/b][/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]) is a shelf EQ that cuts a wider and wider range of high frequencies as you turn it up. Markbass amps are very clear-sounding, and this filter has the effect of drawing you into the mix more, making your sound less present. It's kind of like an "old school" knob![/size][/font][/color]
[color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]The [/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3][b]VPF [/b][/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]([/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3][b]Variable Preshape Filter[/b][/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]) boosts lows and highs, and cuts mids. Some call this kind of effect a scoop, a smiley-shape EQ, or an enhance knob. It's very effective for slap bass, pick playing, and driving eighth-note rock.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]These two filters can be combined for interesting effects. But remember that they are off when they are all the way counterclockwise--we suggest you start in that position and turn the filters up gradually, one at a time, to hear and understand what they do.[/size][/font][/color]

[mcnach]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1368024315' post='2072180']
Good to hear you like it.
The VPF ([s]Very Pants[/s] Variable Preshape Filter) scoops the mids & boosts the lows & highs. MB say it's designed for slap players.
THe VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator) rolls the tops off & boosts a little around the 300hz area.
I always seem to end up with the VLE around 9-10 o'clock (even if I start with it off).

Here's what MB say about them...

[color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]The VLE and VPF are useful EQ filters that help you adapt your sound for different styles of music.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]The [/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3][b]VLE [/b][/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]([/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3][b]Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator[/b][/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]) is a shelf EQ that cuts a wider and wider range of high frequencies as you turn it up. Markbass amps are very clear-sounding, and this filter has the effect of drawing you into the mix more, making your sound less present. It's kind of like an "old school" knob![/size][/font][/color]
[color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]The [/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3][b]VPF [/b][/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]([/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3][b]Variable Preshape Filter[/b][/size][/font][/color][color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]) boosts lows and highs, and cuts mids. Some call this kind of effect a scoop, a smiley-shape EQ, or an enhance knob. It's very effective for slap bass, pick playing, and driving eighth-note rock.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#020202][font=Georgia, Arial, Verdana][size=3]These two filters can be combined for interesting effects. But remember that they are off when they are all the way counterclockwise--we suggest you start in that position and turn the filters up gradually, one at a time, to hear and understand what they do.[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]


That makes a lot of sense. Ah, so the VLE does boost some low mids as well as rolling off the treble, I knew there was something else going on, but could not put my finger on it exactly.

The Jazz bass had never sounded better
I can't yet tell how loud/full it can sound, but it has a lovely tone. Let's see how it behaves in the band mix, but I am already smiling, and it's not because I discovered it has a blue led (bonus! )

[Lozz196]

Nice one, glad you like after my extensive recommendations. That`s me off the hook then

[LawrenceH]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1368029773' post='2072277']
Ah, so the VLE does boost some low mids as well as rolling off the treble
[/quote]

Not on my F1 it doesn't! I had thought they were the same throughout the range. The manual shows the filter graphs, the VLE's 'just' a variable frequency HPF that shelves at about -20dB.
I find a shade of VPF can often help tighten up a flabby sound, but a little goes a long way.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1368030141' post='2072285']
Nice one, glad you like after my extensive recommendations. That`s me off the hook then
[/quote]

I looked you up online, I have a map on my wall showing how to get to your house, I have your schedule for the next two weeks on my desk, and a tank full of petrol in my car. I would have driven to your door and told you exactly why I didn't like it, if it turned out I didn't.



Although... don't relax just yet. Wait until I come back from practice tonight

Thank you for your extensive recommendations, even if it ends up falling short of the loudness expectations, which quite frankly I doubt it will seeing that I could barely turn it up a fraction before it was too loud at home... it's likely to be a lot louder than the Hartke, smaller and lighter... that's success already. What I'm thinking is that I *really* like its sound. The RH450 did not make me smile like this one has. It's a bit premature as I have not yet tried it with the band etc, but I can see myself building up my "bigger rig" around the Markbass. Either this combo, or getting a separate head. I have a Barefaced Compact ordered. That cab as an extension to the combo is probably similar in volume and depth to my existing TC rig... We will see.

[mcnach]

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1368030904' post='2072295']
Not on my F1 it doesn't! I had thought they were the same throughout the range. The manual shows the filter graphs, the VLE's 'just' a variable frequency HPF that shelves at about -20dB.
I find a shade of VPF can often help tighten up a flabby sound, but a little goes a long way.
[/quote]

I haven't seen any graphs, the VLE sounded to me like it was doing a bit more than just shelving high frequencies... whatever it does (I still haven't looked at the manual ) it works very nicely.
I have never liked controls like the VPF, but then I never had a VLE to play with in addition to it, so I guess a little experimentation is needed. It would be interesting to see on an oscilloscope screen how the two controls interact.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1368030141' post='2072285']
Nice one, glad you like after my extensive recommendations. That`s me off the hook then
[/quote]
[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1368040343' post='2072486']

I looked you up online, I have a map on my wall showing how to get to your house, I have your schedule for the next two weeks on my desk, and a tank full of petrol in my car. I would have driven to your door and told you exactly why I didn't like it, if it turned out I didn't.



Although... don't relax just yet. Wait until I come back from practice tonight
[/quote]

I really really hope it works out at practice then

[rOB]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1368022847' post='2072153']
I remembered I had a small amp stand, one of these foldable contraptions that allow you to take a small guitar combo and put it on the floor angled towards your head... so I found it and it's perfect for the MarkBass as a monitor.
[/quote]
I would highly recommend this set up for small gigs or gigs when you've got PA support. That's what I do and it works a treat.

Congrats on the new amp.

Edited May 8, 2013 by rOB

[mcnach]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1368042908' post='2072538']
I really really hope it works out at practice then
[/quote]

Ok, you're officially off the hook now.

This is one loud little amp!!!

I used it last night for rehearsal, with three guitars (two on half-stacks 4x12), drummer and sax. Last night, for some reason, we were too loud, but this time I did not try to bring the volume down, I wanted to see how this coped. Master volume knob remained at around 11 o'clock (so presumable there's still a reasonable amount of oomph left), and I did not use an extension cab (I did not take one, I thought I would use the 4x10 they have there, but it turned out to be a 4ohm one, so it'll have to be another day).

As a stage monitor when I get DI'd to the PA, this amp will clearly be enough.
For small bar gigs, I am sure this can cope too. I can't believe the amount of air this thing can move!

The only thing that's not perfect yet is... getting the sound right. At home it sounded fantastic. At rehearsal volume I did not get it right. But it took me a little while to get the right sound on my RH450 too. It was ok, but not quite right. I am sure I'll there over the next few practices, last night I did not want to spent too much time fiddling with it.
Another contributing factor was that a couple of the guitar amps were too bassy. During a break I asked the rhythm guitarist to turn down his bass control, and turn up mids a bit. Then we played together with the drummer and the sound was a LOT better, so I'm sure part of the difficulty I had to find my sound was interference with the louder bassier guitars. Usually I'm vocal about these things, but because I wanted to focus on my amp I just let them be, and not turn the rehearsal into a knob twiddling session

That speaker was moving a lot. Not sure if the orange cone just highlights it and most other speakers move as much, or maybe it's expected that this one moves more, as it's producing a very loud sound indeed in a small enclosure...

Anyway... there's work to do, but it's a very nice amp and it's perfect for my intended use (and maybe a lot more!). So, once again, thanks to all that pointing me in this direction and/or encouraged me. I was interested in this amp from the start from reviews alone, and I was pleased to find the reviews were accurate.

[xgsjx]

Getting guitarists to turn down the bass can be a pain. At my last rehearsal a guitarist said "I need more bass", I passed him my bass & said "Here, this is what you really need".
Band mix is always different from the "at home" sound. I find my "home" sound is too nasal honk mid in the mix (which is rather weird as it's rather bassy at home). My setting is flat with the low mids rolled back to 10 o'clock & the VLE at @ 10 too. But I have some other stuff going on with my fx.

The B&C drivers that MB use have a very long excursion. IIRC it's 3mm more than a Celestion (don't quote me on that though as it was @ 5 years ago that I read it).

[Beer of the Bass]

It can be hard to find a space in the mix when you have bassy 4x12" equipped guitarists, no matter what size of bass rig you're using. Do SBK's guitarists gig with the 4x12"s, or are they the house kit in the rehearsal room? I suspect if they're gigging with smaller combos, the Markbass will more than do the job.

[mcnach]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1368088443' post='2072938']
Getting guitarists to turn down the bass can be a pain. At my last rehearsal a guitarist said "I need more bass", I passed him my bass & said "Here, this is what you really need".
Band mix is always different from the "at home" sound. I find my "home" sound is too nasal honk mid in the mix (which is rather weird as it's rather bassy at home). My setting is flat with the low mids rolled back to 10 o'clock & the VLE at @ 10 too. But I have some other stuff going on with my fx.

The B&C drivers that MB use have a very long excursion. IIRC it's 3mm more than a Celestion (don't quote me on that though as it was @ 5 years ago that I read it).
[/quote]

They have to move more, to provide that amount of noise, I suppose. I'm amazed.

Yeah, I understand the settings are different at home and at volume. The RH450 was only ever used live, so once I found the sound I wanted, it was easy to maintain it as it required only minor tweaks. Having the presets was very useful, so I had one preset for Jazz one for Stingray... and an extra one for whatever.
I will just have to work on the MarkBass and figure how to get it to sound at volume the way I'd like it to. I'm sure it can do it, it's not too far off already. There is of course the danger that as I'm used to a particular sound, I was just trying to reproduce that sound.
I don't know. Next time I'm launching into a "tame the bass from those guitar half stacks!" battle, for it did sound great with one guitar after I got him to turn down bass and up mids a bit.

The Hartke was sold yesterday too (I had someone very interested after I lent it to him a few weeks ago), so my gf was happy that the overall bulk was reduced (I may have omitted any price references in case they distracted from the awesomeness of the MB )

[mcnach]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1368093923' post='2073031']
It can be hard to find a space in the mix when you have bassy 4x12" equipped guitarists, no matter what size of bass rig you're using. Do SBK's guitarists gig with the 4x12"s, or are they the house kit in the rehearsal room? I suspect if they're gigging with smaller combos, the Markbass will more than do the job.
[/quote]

Yeah, those are the amps at the rehearsal place (Banana Row). Their own amps are smaller combos (single 12" and twin 10"/12"). We have just started to rehearse in this place, which takes a bit of adjusting to. This is a smaller room with much bigger amps. The first time here we played at lower volume, the drums were loudish in the mix, and everything could be heard nicely. I think yesterday the guys went a bit volume-happy... I had problems sometimes to hear the snare properly (yes, everybody used earplugs).

It's my constant fight: keeping levels low. Not for the sake of volume itself, as I nearly always wear earplugs, but because I don't see the point rehearsing when people can't hear reasonably clearly what everybody else is playing.
I have quit two bands because of this. The first one... it was terrible, and volume was used to compensate for lack of ability... so I would have quit anyway, but it was my first band in bass and I was too happy that somebody wanted me and I endured that for two months . The second one, I suggested bringing volume down to hear eachother better... we did, and two people went "true"! that was a lot better!", one (lead guitarist) did not say anything. Next rehearsal we went back to very loud. I tried to make them go not so loud remembering what it was like the previous time... but nothing happened. Lead guitarist this time had lots of trouble being heard, volume on his 50W 2x12" combo was maxed... but his mids were non existent. I was relatively new in the band so I did not want to rock the boat too much and I knew he was the "sensitive" one (as in sensitive to anything that could possibly be thought of a criticism, even slight), so I tried to nicely get him to try lowering the bass control, lowering a bit the gain (extremely distorted), and turn up the mids. He flatly refused and ignored me for the rest of the rehearsal. I decided to give next one a miss and think about it. Then I quit.
I do not understand how people can supposedly like music, but then settle for loud mush with little musical content (sigh).
Sorry, this should have gone on the "Rants" thread

[xgsjx]

I found most band members don't really understand where they sit in the frequencies. My singer said he needed more bass on the vocals as they sounded tinny & proceeded to turn the bass up, after which he got constant feedback every time he breathed on the mic. I turned the bass back down & increased the mids a little & he was well shocked to find that turning up the mids added bass to his voice. I tried to explain that his voice doesn't play bass or reach those frequencies musically.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1368042908' post='2072538']
I really really hope it works out at practice then
[/quote]
[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1368087210' post='2072915']
Ok, you're officially off the hook now.

Anyway... there's work to do, but it's a very nice amp and it's perfect for my intended use (and maybe a lot more!). So, once again, thanks to all that pointing me in this direction and/or encouraged me. I was interested in this amp from the start from reviews alone, and I was pleased to find the reviews were accurate.
[/quote]

Phew

[mcnach]

Ok, so I owned this amp for a bit over a month now.

One of the best purchases I have made in years!!!

I still can't get over how powerful this little thing is on its own, while being tiny and light.
I have not gigged with it yet, but yesterday I paired to another cab for the first time at rehearsal volumes... and it was just awesome.

I tried it briefly at home with the BC212 and the RS210 TC cabs, and felt the RS210 was nicer, which was a pity as it's the more awkward to transport of the two, but not entirely surprising.
So I took the MB combo and the RS210 to the RHCP band rehearsal.
That combination is really loud and sounds great. The band were all praising how punchy and how good it sounded with my Stingray. Just really good definition whilst retaining a lot of bottom end... and the slap parts sounded huge!
Love it! Can't wait to hear what it will sound like with the Barefaced Compact, when it eventually arrives.

I have a gig with the RHCP band on Friday, a private birthday party. Not sure what the venue is like but for these situations I used to take the RH450 and both BC212 and RS210 cabs and worked well. Let's see how the MB121 plus RS210 behave... I don't think it will be any quieter than the previous combination, and might actually sound better (still love the RH450, but the Markbass seems a bit more my thing).

[Lozz196]

Nice one, they are amazing little boxes aren`t they?

[mcnach]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1371062064' post='2109409']
Nice one, they are amazing little boxes aren`t they?
[/quote]

yup! very happy with it. Can't wait to pair it with the Barefaced Compact I have ordered

[mcnach]

3 months later... and I'm still loving it!

I played a gig today at a beer garden. Full band. We were asked not to be too loud, so we weren't, but it was still full band, and I managed with the CMD121P combo. No, there weren't earthquake-like amounts of bass... but the bass was not buried, and I wasn't even pushing it hard.

Is there anything this amp cannot do?

[Lozz196]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1376865305' post='2180233']
3 months later... and I'm still loving it!

I played a gig today at a beer garden. Full band. We were asked not to be too loud, so we weren't, but it was still full band, and I managed with the CMD121P combo. No, there weren't earthquake-like amounts of bass... but the bass was not buried, and I wasn't even pushing it hard.

Is there anything this amp cannot do?


[/quote]

Make a good curry - tho I reckon it would have a good go at that as well. Love my CMD121P, as per our similar posts re outdoor gigs.

[gsgbass]

I'm running a Ric 4003 through A Markbass Mini CMD 121P / NY121 cab. 500 Watts, and it sounds great.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QDEro1y.jpg[/IMG]