Function band vs integrity ramblings

[lowhand_mike]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='219754' date='Jun 16 2008, 11:58 AM']I think you point is very erudite and I completely understand your position. I don't think our actual positions are that far apart. Remember, I do play in covers bands - in fact, if you consider jazz standards to be covers, which, for the sake of this argument, I do, then ALL of my work is with covers bands. And I don't despise it. I don't despise the audiences at functions and I don't despise the musicians who I play with. I can sometimes get off on a rock shuffle or a funk riff just as much as a swing groove, samba or quaquanco! I just get a bit tired of people sending me cds with tracks on like 'Ain't Nobody' and saying can you learn them for Saturday's wedding.

Maybe I should just demand that people write out charts so I don't have to! My music study time is of profound importance to me and I have to steal it whenever I can. I therefore don't want to spend these (increasingly rare) moments learning 'Le Freak' because, in the great scheme of things, it is bubblegum. I can nail that stuff, no problem. but, as I said early on, its a shallow victory. I guess I want more from this enterprise than cheap thrills.

I wish I could find that 'inner peace' you clearly have! (I've had an idea for another book - Zen and the Art of Tribute Bands!! )[/quote]


aaah. i think i may have misunderstood your stand point slightly. and may have missed an earlier post that either said or eluded to the fact that you also play covers.
which also makes your points a little more clearer and yet also slightly confusing in that you dont advocate what you do or maybe only slightly. i can understand that you study time is important as mine is virtually non existant and normally revolves around me snatching 5-10 mins here or there until the next practice.
the fact that you want more is for you to achieve and aspire to and i'm sure within all of us there is a want to move on so to speak. the grass is unfortunately always greener. but some of us may just be happy where we are and accept our position and if anything does come up to change that then well embrace it as fully as we embrace our current line up of cliches

hmm hope that makes some sense and comes across how i ment it. (non confruntational) i know where you are coming from.

enjoy what you do and take from it what you want. there in lies the inner peace, be it from playing covers or learning a new scale.
if you dont enjoy what you do there really is no point doing it imo.

[BOD2]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='219729' date='Jun 16 2008, 11:26 AM']It's not that I think more of my own position or value it more than yours, more that I have such a great time playing I feel like sharing that enjoyment with a slightly over enthusiastic child like effervescence. Get everyone to join in kind of feeling. Idealistic I know, but no harm in it I feel.[/quote]

This was where I was with my last band. I actually enjoyed and looked forward to rehearsals because I enjoyed the experience of playing, both with an audience or without. Reherasal day was the highlight of the week.

Sadly, none of the others in the band shared this view !

I understand where you're coming from jakesbass and hope I can get back to that position (band split of more than a year ago now).

[Kiwi]

[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='219726' date='Jun 16 2008, 11:24 AM']if tribute and cover band are indeed tired and culturally redundant then they would have no place in the music scene. yes it is a more local and convenient way of hearing live music were the original bands would never play and allows a more simplistic way of getting into playing live music.[/quote]

I agree that many covers bands are culturally redundant in the context of pushing musical boundaries. As I've mentioned already, I think function bands help set the mood at an event, they're not culturally [i]irrelevant [/i]at all.

[Huggy and the Bears]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='219814' date='Jun 16 2008, 01:08 PM']I agree that many covers bands are culturally redundant in the context of pushing musical boundaries. As I've mentioned already, I think function bands help set the mood at an event, they're not culturally [i]irrelevant[/i] at all.[/quote]

This is getting interesting. I think that we are all at different stages of evolution in terms of our playing. I got into playing because I was in awe of musicians I had seen (many of them doing covers) which inspired me to play. I play in my band and we do covers mainly because I do not have the ability (yet) to write my own stuff because I am not that far down the evolutionary journy.

Doing covers makes live music more accessible to the public in the same way that the people that can't get to go and see the Mona Lisa, can enjoy a print of it from the local picture shop. You could argue that the print has no integrity along with the people that produce it, however, the shop keeper (whilst not an original artist) does his job in the process well along with probably the factory workers who printed the picture. They may be budding artists at some stage of the evolutionary process but don't have the skills to paint an original picture as grand as the Mona Lisa.

So, my point is, it took me eight months from first picking up a guitar to performing my first gig with my own band. Looking back it was very ropey, but I was filled with integrity, playing the covers that I had learnt. It would be easy for someone to judge me for my poor performance/lack of integrity on that night, but to me, it was the performance of a lifetime. As my experience increases, so does my ability to play different and original things but I don't think that gives me more integrity - just more experience...

Edited June 16, 2008 by Crazykiwi

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Huggy and the Bears' post='219824' date='Jun 16 2008, 01:31 PM']Doing covers makes live music more accessible to the public in the same way that the people that can't get to go and see the Mona Lisa, can enjoy a print of it from the local picture shop. You could argue that the print has no integrity along with the people that produce it, however, the shop keeper (whilst not an original artist) does his job in the process well along with probably the factory workers who printed the picture. They may be budding artists at some stage of the evolutionary process but don't have the skills to paint an original picture as grand as the Mona Lisa.[/quote]

I was always an admirer of Hieronymous Bosch - had seen his prints and posters in all sorts of places. I thought his work was great. Then, one day, I visited Petersfield and got to see a genuine Bosch triptych. It was stunning. More to the point, however, I became aware of how inadequate much of the literature is at presenting images of paintings i.e. the plates showing pictures in books are literally a pale imitation of the original and seeing any picture in books has since come a poor second to experiencing the real McCoy in galleries. Once you know that, the books don't work anymore.

Now music is completely different. You CAN access the original, as a digital recording (I know we could split hairs about recorded sound vs. acoustic but that's an argument for another day). So why should hearing 'Alright Now' played (especially sung) really badly work for anyone? If they love it that much (and they usually don't), then listen to it at home or go see Bad Company (I auditioned for them once, by the way ). Give the gig to the kids who trying to be the NEXT Bad Company!!! I guess my intimacy with music has created a situation where because I know that there is more out there, it is getting increasingly difficult to share any passion for the forgeries.

You know, I would really love to get a knockback from a jazz gig because the venue only booked original bands.

Edited June 16, 2008 by bilbo230763

[jakenewmanbass]

I think we've reached BassChat Love people

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='219754' date='Jun 16 2008, 11:58 AM']I wish I could find that 'inner peace' you clearly have! (I've had an idea for another book - Zen and the Art of Tribute Bands!! )[/quote]
OMMMMMMM!!!
I come up with about 2 a week, the titles are always fantastic! It's the comtent I always struggle with

[Bilbo]

I just got callled to do a gig with a 'new' function band. Here's the set list:

Son Of A Presacher Man
Lady Marmalade
That's The Way I Like It
Billie Jean
Valerie
Young Hearts
Street Life
Blame It On The Boogie
For Once In MY Life
I Will Survive
I Wish
Superstition
Midnight At The Oasis
Play That Funky Music
You Might Need Somebody
Moondance
Somebody Else's Guy
Sweet Love
WalkingOn Sunshine
Dancing In The Street
Get Ready
I Feel Good
Knock On Wood
Midnight Hour
Proud Mary
Reach Out (I'll Be There)
Let's Stay Together
and, yes, you guessed it, Mustang Sally.

Its like Punk never happened. :wacko:

Why do I bother?

Edited June 26, 2008 by bilbo230763

[crez5150]

You can always say no.....

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='227164' date='Jun 26 2008, 10:37 AM']I just got callled to do a gig with a 'new' function band. Here's the set list:


Why do I bother?[/quote]

get me £500 and expenses and I'll do it for you

*Jake is considering offering a dep service for bass players that wish to retain their artistic integrity*

I acknowledge thats seriously cheeky, but if you saw my grin you wouldn't be able to resist a giggle

Edited June 26, 2008 by jakesbass

[Bilbo]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='227189' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:10 AM']get me £500 and expenses and I'll do it for you

*Jake is considering offering a dep service for bass players that wish to retain their artistic integrity*[/quote]

If that was the fee, Jake, I'd do it naked...

As for your second point, I offer you THIS

[url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=g6R0GjY3agU"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=g6R0GjY3agU[/url]

[Bilbo]

[quote name='crez5150' post='227181' date='Jun 26 2008, 10:58 AM']You can always say no.....[/quote]

That as never been my point. My point is why do we all (collectively) collude in this nonsense - its not the money because the punters would pay that for any covers band. My point is why THOSE covers again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again (isn't that a Quo tune?).

S'laziness.

Edited June 26, 2008 by bilbo230763

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='227208' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:24 AM']If that was the fee, Jake, I'd do it naked...[/quote]
Jake hatches a plan to give Bilbo half his next gig fee for the sheer fun of watching him (Bilbo) doing it naked

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='227208' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:24 AM']As for your second point, I offer you THIS

[url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=g6R0GjY3agU"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=g6R0GjY3agU[/url][/quote]

OK fair play [i]that's[/i] artistic integrity along with some f***ing serious grooving, although I do play like that on function gigs




not...

[Paul Cooke]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='227164' date='Jun 26 2008, 10:37 AM']Its like Punk never happened. :wacko: [/quote]

of course not... it's because punk is angry music and you can't dance to it... well, there's only two dances, the Pogo and the other "dance" consisted of running full tilt into the center of the crowd...

people don't want punk at functions... punk is for the kids in sweaty little dives that stink of pee... where they can go and be "different"... and escape from the "normals".

[Bilbo]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='227218' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:31 AM']OK fair play [i]that's[/i] artistic integrity along with some f***ing serious grooving,[/quote]

Isn't it!!! I last saw DH with his Eubanks/Coleman/Smith line-up and loved it but this new band is monster - I am assuming that was Nate Smith on the video (i don't think it was Kilson but I could be wrong). I put 6 DH cds onto my MP3 player last week and am loving it (I think I have about 64 cds with DH on, the only person I have more of is Paul Chambers and that's only because I am researching his story for a book).

Dave Holland is just SOOOO in there.

[ianrunci]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='227213' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:28 AM']That as never been my point. My point is why do we all (collectively) collude in this nonsense - its not the money because the punters would pay that for any covers band. My point is why THOSE covers again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again (isn't that a Quo tune?).

S'laziness.[/quote]

I think this is down to the lack of suitable material for partying and dancing to over the years. I mean after soul and disco up to the middle of the 80s, most of the dance stuff after that is sequencer, drum machine, sample based and isn't really suitable for a band to play.

The majority of people aren't into having original bands playing music at their wedding or birthday party, its a fact of life. They book a cover band because its the nearest thing they can get to a disco without actually having a disco. We have to remember these punters aren't musicians and are mainly ignorant when it comes to the technicallities of music.

Its like asking a couple to have some mad artistic photographer do their wedding pics in some crazy arty style. They want simple things at ther wedding that they can remember and that will ensure the majority of the guests from 10 to 90 will enjoy dancing to

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='227234' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:47 AM']of course not... it's because punk is angry music and you can't dance to it... well, there's only two dances, the Pogo and the other "dance" consisted of running full tilt into the center of the crowd...

people don't want punk at functions... punk is for the kids in sweaty little dives that stink of pee... where they can go and be "different"... and escape from the "normals".[/quote]


Punk wasn't just about that - it was about saying why? It was about questioning the status quo. It made people realise that music mattered again, for different reasons than in the 60s and early 70s but that it could make a difference. It impacted on our whole culture; news, comedy, art, dance, photography, sculpture. I didn't like the music and still don't but the fact that people gave a s***, said No to racism and sexism, starting questioning their leaders was groundbreaking. But mediocrity always rises to the surface when people stop thinking or caring.

[OldGit]

I was amused to hear some of the younger bands describe the Sex Pistols as boring old farts recently when they were doing their pension tour ...
It's circular.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='227331' date='Jun 26 2008, 01:23 PM']Punk wasn't just about that - it was about saying why? It was about questioning the status quo. It made people realise that music mattered again, for different reasons than in the 60s and early 70s but that it could make a difference.[/quote]

That spirit's still alive and well in some of the darker corners of the hip hop genre, but it's getting harder and harder to find examples where the music is any good.

[Delberthot]

I've been playing with the same guys in a function band for nearly 12 years now.

The fact is that we enjoy playing whether it be Frank Sinatra, Chris de Bleurgh, the Fratellis or Abba.

We never play Robbie Williams cos its the general concensus that he's pissoir unless we're asked to do it.

Like someone before mentioned, the majority of the audience pay little attention to what you play which allows me to get a couple of slap solos in "Brown Eyed Girl"

An interesting fact is that 9 out of 10 first dances for weddings that we are asked to learn are utter rubbish.

Its pretty much a case of money for old rope. we enjoy ourselves and get paid a decent amount of money to do so.


I enjoy this band as much as my pub covers band even though I make a fraction of the money in the pub band

[Bilbo]

Jazz bassist, Dave Holland:

"When you find yourself struggling against the challenges of the music industry and your rent's due, those are the difficult times when you are tested. Each musician has to make their own decision about how they want their music to serve. When you make the commitment to stay true to your musical voice instead of giving into the temptations of some fantastic offer, that is when your music gets stronger. That's something I see as a positive result of this commitment: renewed energy. In the end, people do recognize that commitment."

[Sibob]

Ummm, how about everyone playing because they enjoy playing and the interaction with others?

I play originals and covers, bot bands I enjoy immensely!
I've played in covers and originals bands before that I didn't enjoy at all, so I stopped, but those instances are few and far between, and live situation is generally fun and challenging, its what you make it!

If music isn't paying your rent, but you're enjoying what you're doing......get a job!
If music is paying, but you hate it.....you'll just end up resenting it

Si

[mcgraham]

Woah, resurrected thread alert! Thanks for the quote Bilbo.

Si, I think that ultimately we should play music that we enjoy, that's what I do. However, life isn't perfect and we will always have compromise to some extent and for some period of time. The difficulty comes when the balance of our 'ideal musical pursuits' vs. 'the demands of real life' demands that we sacrifice something of one or the other, and sometimes real life can't be stripped down anymore or you're not willing to strip it down anymore. Sometimes it's just down to where your priorities lie, and which ones come first.

Mark

[Kiwi]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='352592' date='Dec 12 2008, 11:57 AM']Jazz bassist, Dave Holland:

"When you find yourself struggling against the challenges of the music industry and your rent's due, those are the difficult times when you are tested. Each musician has to make their own decision about how they want their music to serve. When you make the commitment to stay true to your musical voice instead of giving into the temptations of some fantastic offer, that is when your music gets stronger. That's something I see as a positive result of this commitment: renewed energy. In the end, people do recognize that commitment."[/quote]
How many jazz standards has he played in his career then?

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='Sibob' post='352604' date='Dec 12 2008, 12:05 PM']Ummm, how about everyone playing because they enjoy playing and the interaction with others?[/quote]

+1, You've nailed it there fella!