Function band vs integrity ramblings

[carlosfandango]

hmmm......I believe you can have great integrity, be very professional and still play in a cheezy function band. Musical integrity goes far beyond the type of music or the selection of songs you play.

Also - being a "jobbing bass player" or playing covers isn't for everyone. If you have artistic ambitions beyond playing others peoples music and arrangements then you'd be much better off joining an originals band.

Personally I need both - one pays the bill and the other keeps me sane!

[crez5150]

[quote name='carlosfandango' post='209728' date='May 30 2008, 04:27 PM']hmmm......I believe you can have great integrity, be very professional and still play in a cheezy function band. Musical integrity goes far beyond the type of music or the selection of songs you play.

Also - being a "jobbing bass player" or playing covers isn't for everyone. If you have artistic ambitions beyond playing others peoples music and arrangements then you'd be much better off joining an originals band.

Personally I need both - one pays the bill and the other keeps me sane![/quote]


+1 for having both sides of the coin..... but as you said Cheezy function band.... I think thats the problem with the whole scenario, people think that if you play in a function band it bound to be cheezy... Why? maybe cause of all the god awful so called function bands that are out there.... most of which have no concept of professionalism and are happy to do the gig for paltry money...

can you tell I'm gettting wound up

[bassace]

I do all jazz these days so when I got a chance to do covers I used to enjoy it, real cheesy stuff if necesary. All in the past tense because I don't own any BGs anymore. Is integrity really the issue though? I'm just grateful that I'm able to play bass and that others seem to want me to play with them.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='209687' date='May 30 2008, 03:27 PM']Chaka Khan's 'Ain't Nobody' (all beat and no groove),[/quote]
In my band we make it groove. In fact I think its got a pretty cool syncopated bass line. Certainly it's challenged the whole band in trying to play it cohesively. The bassline needs spot on timing though, which I don't always manage to nail if I play it when I'm tired.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='209687' date='May 30 2008, 03:27 PM']This isn't about what the punters want. This is about doing the thing as superficially as possible and still getting away with it. Two rehearsals and you're gigging because you've all done it 1,000 times before.[/quote]
For us as a band, it's not about the music so much as its about providing a setting for the punters to enjoy themselves. We're not getting away with anything if the punters don't enjoy themselves. Last Saturday we had our crappiest gig ever, but the punters still had a good time although the whole wedding was appallingly organised. On Tuesday we had our best gig ever, the punters went mental - it was like being at a rock concert. Same set both times.

We've found the song choice is generally less critical so long as they hit the right mood. But its helpful to stick some new stuff in with the old stuff to broaden the appeal of our sets.

[teen t-shirt]

[quote name='Tinman' post='209608' date='May 30 2008, 02:04 PM']I think there's always going to be a certain amount of prostitution when playing in a covers band. There are tracks that I play with the band I'm in, that I'd really rather not play but the punters love them and the other band members like doing them, so who am I to argue.[/quote]

"Too bombay a travelling circus came, they brought and intellignt elephant and nellie was her name...

oooooooooo00000000OOOOOOOO Nellie the elephant packed her trunk and said good bye to the circus...."

your fave aint it pete...

along with of course franz ferdinand's "take me out"
but in all honestly pete you are a awesome basist even if you do have the habit of trying to play lead... just wish my piece of crap would work so i could show you what i've learnt...

Oh sorry were the rest of you talking about something...

[molan]

I've played in a few functions bands (and still do!) And have always tried to set myself a basic ideal that I'd only ever play in a band that I'd want to go and see.

Of course I've played the odd song I've not liked much but generally I've been fortunate enough to be in covers bands that play songs I either like per se or enjoy playing for one reason or another - such as they are a bitch to play and I enjoy the challenge.

My last band used to throw in slightly obscure songs but made sure they fitted well with other material and were good dance songs.

An obvious example was that we played the 'obvious' Stevie of Signed Sealed but ran it straight into I Was Made to Love Her. Always went down a storm despite the fact that few people knew it.

The covers bands that I hate are the ones that are so obviously going through the motions and look bored rigid.

One band I was in were never musically great but always played with great enthusiasm and we generally got rave reviews and re-bookings.

[s_u_y_*]

lol... you should have seen my reaction when I read the title as learning 64 MCR (My Chemical Romance) songs. Yikes indeed!

I would do the gig depending on if I was doing anything at the time. If I was doing nothing, I would do it. Better something than nothing IMO.

[carlosfandango]

[quote name='crez5150' post='209730' date='May 30 2008, 04:31 PM']+1 for having both sides of the coin..... but as you said Cheezy function band.... I think thats the problem with the whole scenario, people think that if you play in a function band it bound to be cheezy... Why? maybe cause of all the god awful so called function bands that are out there.... most of which have no concept of professionalism and are happy to do the gig for paltry money...

can you tell I'm gettting wound up[/quote]

Sorry, I didn't mean that all function and are cheezy....on the contrary...there are some really good bands out there (I play in two of them, and I dep in many others) that are anything but cheezy.... great musos, great musicianship, great songs, fun and wel paid gigs. It fascinates me how many good and all-round msicians ther are out there who can pull off anything form Elvis to Stevie Wonder to Kaisercheifs...in style!

Edited May 31, 2008 by carlosfandango

[SJA]

this might sound controversial, but to put it in perspective, i reckon that any paid musician is doing a more worthwhile job than a music journalist.
IMO making money playing music other people wrote is far less questionable than making money writing or talking about other people's music.

[molan]

[quote name='BeLow' post='210285' date='May 31 2008, 10:38 PM']I can remember being disappointed that no body seemed to notice when I played fretless bass instead of fretless, but for the most part the audience operate at a different level to that, and they can usually tell you if they enjoyed a stonking bass line or not.[/quote]

Not as bad as the time when I decided to change my bass part in a song at a covers band gig one night. There was one verse that had quite a heavy guitar solo which then went back into a second instrumental verse but with just rhythm guitar.

I changed my part in this second section and after the gig the lead singer & guitarist both rounded on me and proclaimed "you really have to play that way again, what did you do, it sounded great"? This was about the only time the singer had ever complimented me on my playing.

There was a slightly bemused look on their faces when I explained that what I did was to actually not play anything at all, just left it to the drummer to hold the rhythm together as I'd noticed he tended to play a bit harder/louder in the instrumental sections

[ironside1966]

I don't understand the loss of integrity at all.

Having worked in professional function bands, I have played a variety of tunes from
Level 42, Prince, Led Zep, Earth Wind and Fire ,Chic, Thin lizzy, Abba + chart music.
And many many great more

I have met and worked with many great bands and musicians , who are also nice people.


INHO a good rounded musician should be capable of playing covers and original songs.

[Tinman]

[quote name='ironside1966' post='210548' date='Jun 1 2008, 03:22 PM']I don't understand the loss of integrity at all.[/quote]

As well as not understanding it, the whole argument really annoys me.

Do the members of the London Symphony Orchestra lack integrity because they play Tchaikovsky, rather than getting together to write their own stuff?

Do the Arctic Monkeys have any more integrity because they do?

[ironside1966]

[quote name='Tinman' post='210554' date='Jun 1 2008, 03:42 PM']As well as not understanding it, the whole argument really annoys me.

Do the members of the London Symphony Orchestra lack integrity because they play Tchaikovsky, rather than getting together to write their own stuff?

Do the Arctic Monkeys have any more integrity because they do?[/quote]



+1
You have to be a good band to get good money.
There are a few exceptions nowadays, but are becoming less and less

[Bassassin]

Most musicians - whether they're in an "originals" band, or playing covers, will be playing someone else's music. Bands, on the whole don't tend to write by committee - therefore there will be one or maybe two main songwriters. The other players may, or may not, contribute to arrangements, and might compose or interpret their own parts - but that doesn't make them songwriters.

Therefore I don't see that there'd be much difference between playing covers & playing songs your guitarist wrote, in terms of integrity - or, more accurately I think - personal compromise.

I'm a songwriter - or at least, half a songwriting partnership - but I'd play covers, or someone else's original songs for money. I'd only be compromising myself if I gave up writing, recording & playing my own stuff in order to do so. If I wasn't a writer in the first place - which, in my experience it seems most bass players aren't - then there would be no compromise, no loss of integrity. It's just playing music.

Jon.

[P-T-P]

[quote]What they usually want is to dance.[/quote]

And there, in a few simple words, is the prime key to success in choosing songs for a covers/function band.

A full dance floor makes such a difference to the band's perspective on the songs they do. Even the most done to death and/or cheesiest numbers become enjoyable if the punters are lapping it up.

It also helps if you're a fan of songs. Just because something like Pretty Woman gets butchered up and down the country hundreds of times a week, it doesn't take away the fact that it's a great song.

If you play a song like you have to play it 'cause it's what the punters want, you're just a butcher. If you can tap into the song in some way though - the groove, the soul, the spirit, the mood etc. - you're going to help make it fresh again and get so much more enjoyment from playing it.

When all's said and done, a live band is at it's peak when making a connection with their audience. Are the audience there specifically to see you? If so, congratulations you're doing something right and don't need to be reading this. More likely for most of us though is that most of the audience is there either because that's where they and their friends always are on a Saturday (Thursday, whatever) night or because they happen to be attending the function you're playing at. They're (hopefully) there to have a good time and the fact your band is there is, at the outset, not of great importance to them but most will happily open the door to the possibility of you entertaining them.

If there's an area for dancing, as there surely will be, there's your meal ticket.

It's a bit simplistic but if you play songs that make the girls want to dance, the girls will have a good time. If the girls are having a good time, the guys will have a good time.

And if, at the end of the night, you play "Lady in Red" and there's couples melting into each other everywhere you look, you've helped make that happen. Whatever they are feeling is, in that moment at least, real. And as every note you play intertwines with what they are feeling, you become part of that moment too.

You can't tell me there's no integrity in that.

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='P-T-P' post='211706' date='Jun 3 2008, 12:20 PM']And there, in a few simple words, is the prime key to success in choosing songs for a covers/function band.

A full dance floor makes such a difference to the band's perspective on the songs they do. Even the most done to death and/or cheesiest numbers become enjoyable if the punters are lapping it up.

It also helps if you're a fan of songs. Just because something like Pretty Woman gets butchered up and down the country hundreds of times a week, it doesn't take away the fact that it's a great song.

If you play a song like you have to play it 'cause it's what the punters want, you're just a butcher. If you can tap into the song in some way though - the groove, the soul, the spirit, the mood etc. - you're going to help make it fresh again and get so much more enjoyment from playing it.

When all's said and done, a live band is at it's peak when making a connection with their audience. Are the audience there specifically to see you? If so, congratulations you're doing something right and don't need to be reading this. More likely for most of us though is that most of the audience is there either because that's where they and their friends always are on a Saturday (Thursday, whatever) night or because they happen to be attending the function you're playing at. They're (hopefully) there to have a good time and the fact your band is there is, at the outset, not of great importance to them but most will happily open the door to the possibility of you entertaining them.

If there's an area for dancing, as there surely will be, there's your meal ticket.

It's a bit simplistic but if you play songs that make the girls want to dance, the girls will have a good time. If the girls are having a good time, the guys will have a good time.

And if, at the end of the night, you play "Lady in Red" and there's couples melting into each other everywhere you look, you've helped make that happen. Whatever they are feeling is, in that moment at least, real. And as every note you play intertwines with what they are feeling, you become part of that moment too.

You can't tell me there's no integrity in that.[/quote]

[b]Very[/b] succinctly put my friend.

I cannot argue with a single word of that.

Brilliant post. IMHO

[Bilbo]

[quote name='P-T-P' post='211706' date='Jun 3 2008, 12:20 PM']And there, in a few simple words, is the prime key to success in choosing songs for a covers/function band.

A full dance floor makes such a difference to the band's perspective on the songs they do. Even the most done to death and/or cheesiest numbers become enjoyable if the punters are lapping it up.

It also helps if you're a fan of songs. Just because something like Pretty Woman gets butchered up and down the country hundreds of times a week, it doesn't take away the fact that it's a great song.

If you play a song like you have to play it 'cause it's what the punters want, you're just a butcher. If you can tap into the song in some way though - the groove, the soul, the spirit, the mood etc. - you're going to help make it fresh again and get so much more enjoyment from playing it.

When all's said and done, a live band is at it's peak when making a connection with their audience. Are the audience there specifically to see you? If so, congratulations you're doing something right and don't need to be reading this. More likely for most of us though is that most of the audience is there either because that's where they and their friends always are on a Saturday (Thursday, whatever) night or because they happen to be attending the function you're playing at. They're (hopefully) there to have a good time and the fact your band is there is, at the outset, not of great importance to them but most will happily open the door to the possibility of you entertaining them.

If there's an area for dancing, as there surely will be, there's your meal ticket.

It's a bit simplistic but if you play songs that make the girls want to dance, the girls will have a good time. If the girls are having a good time, the guys will have a good time.

And if, at the end of the night, you play "Lady in Red" and there's couples melting into each other everywhere you look, you've helped make that happen. Whatever they are feeling is, in that moment at least, real. And as every note you play intertwines with what they are feeling, you become part of that moment too.

You can't tell me there's no integrity in that.[/quote]


Can't argue with this but that's not the point, for me anyway.

If I could write a book, one book in my life, would it be Jeffrey Archers 'Cain and Abel'? No it wouldn't. It would be something profound, of lasting value, something I could be proud of as a piece of art. Playing in covers bands (and I do) is low input, (aesthetically) low return stuff. Its the difference between making high quality, hand crafted furniture and knocking up an IKEA flatpack. It has its place, as lots of people have said here, but, in my experience, as a jazzer, I find that too much of this bubble-gum stuff takes the edge of your 'proper' art.

When I do a jazz gig, I need to be listening and responding VERY quickly to the stimulae around me and I need to execute considerably more sophisticated lines in real time. With most covers bands, you can effectively coast for the whole evening (and still play killer grooves). I find that, if you do too many 'lightweight' gigs, when you go back to the more cerebral music, you feel stale, sluggish even, and it takes a while to get into 'the zone' again. Your brain just slows down. The problem is, does the proliferation of low brow gigs undermine our collective potential to excell? I think it does.

If I had absolute integrity, because of my stated position as outlined here, I would knock these commercial gigs on the head and focus my energies on the music I have a passion for. But I don't because, if I did that, I would do about 1/3 of the gigs I currently do. Its a dilemma I wish I didn't have to live with but I do. I guess that means I lack integrity.

PS for my money, musicians in the LSO playing Tchaikovsky for 1,000th time DO lack integrity and 'Pretty Woman' is NOT a great song, harmonically, melodically, rhythmically or culturally

[Tinman]

Bilbo
It's sounds to me that maybe you should leave the 'covers' playing to us bubblegum chewing, Ikea furniture owning proles. Go make your 'art', do what makes you happy.

[BigBeefChief]

"I guess I'll go on home, it's late
There'll be tomorrow nigh, but wait
What do I see
Is she walking back to me
Yeah, she's walking back to me
Oh, oh, Pretty woman "


Not a great song huh??

[Galilee]

[quote name='P-T-P' post='211706' date='Jun 3 2008, 12:20 PM']Whatever they are feeling is, in that moment at least, real. And as every note you play intertwines with what they are feeling, you become part of that moment too.[/quote]

* retch *

This never happened when I was fronting a thrash band.

[bassicinstinct]

Proof positive that this, as most things, is [b]entirely subjective[/b].

Personally, if I had the choice of playing very few "quality" gigs or lots of "cover" gigs, I'm absolutely certain which choice I'd make. I'm a player, so playing is what I do.

For me, the ideal compromise is to have an involvement in a busy, financially viable and "credible" (whatever that means) band in paralel with a band which may gig only occasionally but which satisifies any musical itches which may remain unscratched.

Works for me anyway.

[jakenewmanbass]

I guess I'm alone in this (maybe not) and I'm not trying to tell anyone off, it's just how I feel about things and only that.
I just love playing music, it makes me happy. I don't give any creedence to the views of others as to whether a piece of music is to their taste or not, for me it's just playing music.
I don't have time to think about how good something is and I sure as hell will not get caught up in what anyone thinks of me for playing absolutely anything.
I just look around the world and piss my pants laughing at how lucky I am to be feeding my kids with bass playing (compares with a Zimbabwean farmer or a father of a pillaged Sudanese tribe or an occupant of the projects in New York, or an eastern European labourer etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc ....

Come on folks lets have some perspective shall we

And a final thought, I play for others enjoyment largely, and that's the measure, in turn, of my enjoyment.

Edited June 3, 2008 by jakesbass

[Merton]

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='211768' date='Jun 3 2008, 01:26 PM']Proof positive that this, as most things, is [b]entirely subjective[/b].

Personally, if I had the choice of playing very few "quality" gigs or lots of "cover" gigs, I'm absolutely certain which choice I'd make. I'm a player, so playing is what I do.[/quote]
+1

My main gig is a function band.
My second band is an original pop rock band. Even that I find some of the songs entirely cringeworthy to play, but I do it to play the songs I love, play some cool venues and generally play for a laugh with musicians (esp. the drummer) whom I respect and like.
My "other stuff" is the occasional jazz rehearsal - even a gig in July, hooray! - and that's fun for entirely different reasons. i.e. it's a real challenge to play with people who have played for over 40 years each and know everything back to front, standing on their heads, whereas I'm fairly new to it all so don't know the numbers, don't necessarily "get" the changes imediately.

Which one do I actually have most fun with? Probably the function band coz we get to play for hours, everyone loves it and we get to play for hours

[chardbass]

[quote name='P-T-P' post='211706' date='Jun 3 2008, 12:20 PM']And if, at the end of the night, you play "Lady in Red" and there's couples melting into each other everywhere you look, you've helped make that happen. Whatever they are feeling is, in that moment at least, real. And as every note you play intertwines with what they are feeling, you become part of that moment too.[/quote]

Amen to that.

However I would say that as I make all my money from playing covers, teaching covers, transcribing covers, doing arrangements of covers, doing click tracks of covers and backing tracks of covers.
There was a day when I was in a rock band doing all originals, and before that at music college playing jazz (some originals) and being fortunate enough to have Jim Mullen work with the group I was in for several days and gig with us for a couple of sets.
If I had only pursued those avenues I fear I may not have worked as much as I do now regardless of integrity.
I would love to be able to go back to those college days and I even though I am a much better player and musician now, my creativity is much more stale now.

I made a decision years ago to make my living from playing music as I love creating, and re-creating, music.
The path I have taken in my personal life has led me to the security of contracted seasons etc- for me it's about the quality of musicians I play with. I have, for the most part, played with very talented musicians over the past 18 years who would be quite capable of playing at a higher level if the opportunity arose.

I am a jobbing musician

Edited June 3, 2008 by chardbass

[Happy Jack]

Fascinating thread, great fun to read, all the ingredients (including mystery trolls) add up to a sum greater than their parts ... BUT ... did I mention that I like to play bass?

Integrity? Haven't given it a moment's thought yet. I like to play bass.

If I'm playing [i]Mustang Sally[/i] it doesn't worry me that lots of other (better) bass players have already played it. I like to play bass.

If I get paid (a tiny amount of) money for making music, I don't get too excited either way about it. I like to play bass.

If people are dancing, well that's nice, but it's not why I'm doing it. I like to play bass.

I'm probably a bit simple.

Or something.