Function band vs integrity ramblings

[BigBeefChief]

Life is a Cabaret, old chum.











I'll get my coat.......

[crez5150]

I see... yes you are right.... we have several venues here in Essex that predominantly have Tribute acts.... Though I do believe that if people want to see original acts there are venues that will cater for the needs.... from a financial point of view it makes more sense to certain venues to have Tribute or cover acts.

bums on seats i guess

[Bilbo]

[quote name='crez5150' post='211876' date='Jun 3 2008, 03:54 PM']bums on seats i guess[/quote]

The absolute bottom line

[OldGit]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='211871' date='Jun 3 2008, 03:48 PM']But the evidence suggests that, if these things take off, they will clog up the venues (e.g. the Railway in Ipswich, Spa Pavillion in Felixstowe) and replace anyone trying to do anything creative or new (like 'classical' composers or contemporary jazz musicians). Turns the whole world into cabaret![/quote]

Ah that old chestnut....

Bilbo, you speak a lot of sense which I agree with but ...
If you don't entertain, you don't get an audience.. and, of course, the corollary, if you don't pull an audience, you are probably not entertaining (or you are keeping your gigs a secret)

You have to to earn your right to play a gig in a popuar venue and then displace the million other things that your audience could be doing.
Tribute bands are perfectly valid, they tend to pull in audiences to live music who may not have bothered before. 1% of that new audience may then discover Jazz so be grateful ...

[i]They[/i] don't stop you getting that gig. Pull as large an audience in the same venue and you'll get the gig. It's economics. In fact a healthy crowd watching a trib, party or covers band every Friday or Saturday night may well keep the venue going through the week when your jazz band can get a go to play to a smaller audience.

You have to be realistic though. The audience for your creative noodlings from within your very soul is a lot more limited than that for a Pink Floyd tribute band, or even someone playing Mustang Sally and Lady In Red ...

[alexclaber]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='211871' date='Jun 3 2008, 03:48 PM']I have never seen a tribute band but can easily understand why someone would want to go see someone perform like their favourite band either for a 10th of the price or because they don't exist anymore, don't tour anymore or don't tour in the UK...[/quote]

What was so great about the Sgt Pepper vs Pet Sounds gig was that neither of these albums were ever toured by their bands and these albums are arguably the two greatest pop albums ever recorded, so it's more like going to see a great orchestra perform a fantastic Beethoven symphony followed by a Mozart symphony. Just amazing composition flawlessly executed. They only do this gig a couple of times a year and don't play together apart from that, so there's so much energy wanting to come out.

But I agree that the proliferation of the tribute band is a slightly disturbing phenomenon...

Alex

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='chris_b' post='209622' date='May 30 2008, 02:19 PM']Sorry, but I think your description here is insulting.
Do you think that Darryl Jones, the drummer in REM, Pino in the Who and the house band in the West End's We Will Rock You are prostituting themselves?[/quote]

Have you thought that maybe they dont like every song they have to play either?

These players are doing a job and i would be surprised if they liked 100% every song they had to play.

I do thing thats a bit out of context though.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='OldGit' post='211890' date='Jun 3 2008, 04:05 PM']Ah that old chestnut....

Bilbo, you speak a lot of sense which I agree with but ...
If you don't entertain, you don't get an audience.. and, of course, the corollary, if you don't pull an audience, you are probably not entertaining (or you are keeping your gigs a secret)

You have to to earn your right to play a gig in a popuar venue and then displace the million other things that your audience could be doing.
Tribute bands are perfectly valid, they tend to pull in audiences to live music who may not have bothered before. 1% of that new audience may then discover Jazz so be grateful ...

[i]They[/i] don't stop you getting that gig. Pull as large an audience in the same venue and you'll get the gig. It's economics. In fact a healthy crowd watching a trib, party or covers band every Friday or Saturday night may well keep the venue going through the week when your jazz band can get a go to play to a smaller audience.

You have to be realistic though. The audience for your creative noodlings from within your very soul is a lot more limited than that for a Pink Floyd tribute band, or even someone playing Mustang Sally and Lady In Red ...[/quote]

Good points well made.

[ianrunci]

Personally I don't see the problem playing any song. Even when playing in original bands I have played tunes I hated because another band member wrote them.

As for covers, I play what people want to hear. Whether that be Lady in red or Enter sandman. The stuff I prefer to play is 70s funk and jazz funk because it challenges me as a player but I wouldn't want to bore a wedding audience with Pastorios and Clarke tunes.

Most of the stuff our function band does whether it be soul, disco or indie music I enjoy playing. To hate playing Lady in Red is all down to personal taste. Personally I would prefer to play that than The killers or Arctic Monkeys etc because its offers more of a challenge to me as a bass player. When I am playing lead guitar I prefer to play rock music because its more interesting to me as a lead player than say soul or funk tunes.

Recently I have had to learn 4 new tunes that people refer to as cheese, Wake me up by Wham, December 63 by The Four Seasons, Dancing on the cieling by Lionel Richie and Never too much by Luther Vandros. However having said that I personally don't think they are cheese, I think they are classic tunes with brilliant musicianship.

But when it comes down to it, I am paid by a client to entertain the punters whoever they might be. That means I will play classic MOR tunes all night unless someone asks for a different tune by specific request. I think when a function band is booked they are expected to turn up and be able to play all the stock tunes that most function bands play.

Not everyone is creative or has the inclination, talent or imagination to write music or be a famous, does that make them a prostitute? I don't think so

[dave_bass5]

I passed up on going to see Bon Jovi this year in London and went to see By jovi instead.
Im not a huge fan of the latest Bon Jovi albums, much more in to the classics and By Jovi still play those whereas Bon Jovi seem to want to promote the newer stuff.
Just my thoughts re Tribute bands.

plus it was a hell of a lot cheaper ;-)

Edited June 3, 2008 by dave_bass5

[alexclaber]

[quote name='ianrunci' post='211908' date='Jun 3 2008, 04:21 PM']Wake me up by Wham[/quote]

Great bassline!

Alex

[alexclaber]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='211909' date='Jun 3 2008, 04:22 PM']I passed up on going to see Bon Jovi this year in London and went to see By jovi instead.[/quote]

Does anyone know how the publishing royalties work with these acts? Does the venue just pay their PRS subscription and it goes into the pot and out again in the usual rather baffling manner or is there a more direct revenue stream from the tribute act to the songwriters?

Alex

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='211912' date='Jun 3 2008, 04:27 PM']Does anyone know how the publishing royalties work with these acts? Does the venue just pay their PRS subscription and it goes into the pot and out again in the usual rather baffling manner or is there a more direct revenue stream from the tribute act to the songwriters?

Alex[/quote]
In theory yes, they are supposed to complete a PRS return listing all songs and their composers.

[Happy Jack]

Hmmmm - the shift in topic from Covers bands to Tribute bands is fine, but surely they're two different topics (and don't call me Shirley)?

A Tribute band isn't really a Covers band as such, it's a re-creation of a piece of musical history and is often preferable to seeing the originals.

The Bon Jovi / By Jovi post above is a proposition I actually tested last year by going to see The Counterfeit Stones (Shepherds Bush Empire) and The Rolling Stones (The O2) within two months of each other. Guess which act was better, more energetic, more faithful to the spirit of the real Stones, contained more music that I actually wanted to hear, and was played by musicians who could remember intros, chord sequences and lyrics. And you could have a drink with the band afterwards if you really wanted.

In the last two years, apart from the Counterfeits, I've also seen The Bootleg Beatles, Bjorn Again and Killer Queen. I could have seen the original Queen years ago but chose not to (more fool me), both Fab Fours were already gone by the time I hit London. Tribute bands are the only way to go. KQ didn't impress me at all, but the other three were all superb.

Briefly back OT, musical integrity? Check out some decent Tribute bands, then see if anyone feels like questioning their integrity!

[dave_bass5]

I saw The Bootleg Beatles at th eRAh a couple of years ago and thought they were fantastic.
But yes, we have gone OT.

Personally i enjoy getting up on stage and playing songs i like but I tend to like most things. And i do enjoy learning new songs so for me i now only do covers. Not interested in original stuff at all these days.
I'm not bothered about integrity, its something i haven't even thought about. for me its about enjoying something and making money at the same time.

Integrity is someone else's issue IMHO.

[P-T-P]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='211854' date='Jun 3 2008, 03:30 PM']All perfectly valid points. My use of 'you' as opposed to I 'is' is, as you correctly point out, grammatically incorrect - I should probably have said 'if [b]one[/b] plays too many etc' but, culturally, I would be unlikely to use that term, like.[/quote]

"I" would suffice!

[quote]Re my opinions slipping into pretension - that's where they like to spend most of their free time. Hence my plan for world domination [/quote]

Funny stuff.

[quote]In terms of attaching more importance to what I am doing, it is it's importance to ME that I am referring to - isn't that what integrity is?[/quote]

I understand on the first part.

I think deciding what integrity is, within the context(s) of the discussion is tricky. Is there a code of values or principles we should all adhere to as bass players? As musicians? Or is it more, as you suggest, personal to begin with?

I think you kinda blurred the lines a little because of the trickiness.

For me, I think once there's money involved, true artistic integrity goes out of the window.

However, in it's place there's professional integrity and as we're talking about playing music here, there's going to be a vast artistic element to that and in this area, integrity can surely only be personal and how far someone strays from genuine artistic integrity is a matter for them alone to deal with.

[Telebass]

You wanna play? So play! Doesn't matter what the gig is if you want to do it. If it's reasonably fun, and you don't do it, someone else will, and he/she'll be getting what might have been YOUR money!

[steantval]

I have played in cover bands for most of my musical "career".

I have a full time job and playing bass in bands is my passion, money is not the reason, so I play the stuff I like.

No way could I play the middle of the road/chart numbers for these corporate functions, but totally understand why some folks have to do it for the money.

I'm here to defend the good quality cover bands, I know there's alot of s*ite out there, I've seen them, I don't know how they can call themselves musicians and expect venues to pay them!!

I believe the songs should be played as close to the original as possible or don't bother at all.

I feel that playing numbers from different bands/bass styles/time signatures stretches my ability on an ongoing basis, whereas the majority of players in original bands only play safe within their sometimes very limited ability.

I spotted a bass player in an originals band a fortnight ago playing a right handed bass upside down, for f*cks sake, just buy a proper left handed one and get on with it.

Your comments would be welcome.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='steantval' post='212004' date='Jun 3 2008, 06:51 PM']I believe the songs should be played as close to the original as possible or don't bother at all.[/quote]
I disagree. A good tune is a good tune, and will stand having the arrangement kicked around a bit.

I used to be in a band that did Talking Heads' Psycho Killer on acoustic guitar, accordion and double bass. Brought the the house down every time.

[quote name='steantval' post='212004' date='Jun 3 2008, 06:51 PM']I feel that playing numbers from different bands/bass styles/time signatures stretches my ability on an ongoing basis, whereas the majority of players in original bands only play safe within their sometimes very limited ability.[/quote]
That's quite an elitist attitude. Just sayin'.

[quote name='steantval' post='212004' date='Jun 3 2008, 06:51 PM']I spotted a bass player in an originals band a fortnight ago playing a right handed bass upside down, for f*cks sake, just buy a proper left handed one and get on with it.[/quote]
Uhhh... OK.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='steantval' post='212004' date='Jun 3 2008, 06:51 PM']I have played in cover bands for most of my musical "career".

I have a full time job and playing bass in bands is my passion, money is not the reason, so I play the stuff I like.

No way could I play the middle of the road/chart numbers for these corporate functions, but totally understand why some folks have to do it for the money.

I'm here to defend the good quality cover bands, I know there's alot of s*ite out there, I've seen them, I don't know how they can call themselves musicians and expect venues to pay them!!

I believe the songs should be played as close to the original as possible or don't bother at all.

I feel that playing numbers from different bands/bass styles/time signatures stretches my ability on an ongoing basis, whereas the majority of players in original bands only play safe within their sometimes very limited ability.

I spotted a bass player in an originals band a fortnight ago playing a right handed bass upside down, for f*cks sake, just buy a proper left handed one and get on with it.

Your comments would be welcome.[/quote]

I dissagree about playing the songs as close as possible to the original.
I base this on the fact that even original bands change things around when they play live so why shouldnt covers bands.
look what Mark Ronson did and how well that went down.

For us to keep working we play what we are asked to play. Especially if its a first dance. I cant see us turning round to the bride and telling her we wont do a song because we dont like it. That ot me is very unprofessional.

As for someone playing a bass upside down. Maybe he couldnt get that model in a left handed version. Or even afford one.

I agree about how learning new songs streatches you, I love that part.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='212049' date='Jun 3 2008, 08:16 PM']I agree about how learning new songs stretches you, I love that part.[/quote]

And my homework this evening?

[list]Echo Beach (Martha & The Muffins)
I'm A Believer (The Monkees)
Long Train Runnin' (Doobie Brothers)
Walking On Sunshine (Katrina & The Waves)
She Moves In Her Own Way (The Kooks)
Right As Rain (Adele)
[/list]

So of that list of six, that's five tracks I've never considered playing before, and two of them I'd never even heard of before.

And as my grin gets steadily wider, I can feel my integrity s-s-s-slippin' away ....

:brow:

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='212134' date='Jun 3 2008, 09:58 PM']And my homework this evening?

[list]Echo Beach (Martha & The Muffins)
I'm A Believer (The Monkees)
Long Train Runnin' (Doobie Brothers)
Walking On Sunshine (Katrina & The Waves)
She Moves In Her Own Way (The Kooks)
Right As Rain (Adele)
[/list]

So of that list of six, that's five tracks I've never considered playing before, and two of them I'd never even heard of before.

And as my grin gets steadily wider, I can feel my integrity s-s-s-slippin' away ....

:brow:[/quote]


We do all of them other than the last one (never heard of it).
I have a fantastic live version of long train. great funky bass solo in the middle.

[OldGit]

[quote name='steantval' post='212004' date='Jun 3 2008, 06:51 PM']I believe the songs should be played as close to the original as possible or don't bother at all.[/quote]

Good luck with that

I used to but I remember quite distinctly the day I realised that no one in the room but me noticed or gave a toot.
That's when I started added integrity to playing covers. I was playing my version.

[quote]I spotted a bass player in an originals band a fortnight ago playing a right handed bass upside down, for f*cks sake, just buy a proper left handed one and get on with it.[/quote]

Yeah .. What did this bloke know anyway?



and the guy in the Bay City Rollers


Muppets ...

[chris_b]

[quote name='steantval' post='212004' date='Jun 3 2008, 06:51 PM']....I believe the songs should be played as close to the original as possible or don't bother at all....[/quote]
Shame nobody told Joe Cocker!!

[steantval]

Maybe I should expand on my comment about playing covers as close to the original.

I totally agree that the arrangements can be changed and I several cover versions by bands/artists in my collection that I prefer to the original versions.

What I was getting at is the cover bands that do the local pubs and clubs circuits who are either too lazy to learn the songs properly or do not have the musical/vocal ability to carry them off.

A prime example is when I see poor cover bands doing All Right Now by Free and the bass player plays over the verses when the bass actually comes in on the chorus.
It's not there on the original so why put it in, do they actually listen to these tracks properly before attempting to play them?

I knew Hendrix would be brought up (I nearly mentioned it in my original comments), but the Bay City Rollers , it's pretty sad you have to bring that garbage into the discussion.
I'm suprised someone who contributes to this site has pictures of them, my little sister used to have posters of them on her bedroom wall in the seventies.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='steantval' post='212283' date='Jun 4 2008, 08:43 AM']A prime example is when I see poor cover bands doing All Right Now by Free and the bass player plays over the verses when the bass actually comes in on the chorus.
It's not there on the original so why put it in, do they actually listen to these tracks properly before attempting to play them?[/quote]

Seeing as you mention that particular track, I have to agree that's one where the bass player MUST stick to the original bass line, especially beneath the guitar solo. That has to be one of the best-known and best-loved bass riffs in history, and every time I hear that song played without the matching bass riff it just sounds pants.