Function band vs integrity ramblings

[Bilbo]

'boring self indulgent noodlings of jazz musicians'

I'm gonna let that go.

This time.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='213028' date='Jun 5 2008, 10:39 AM'][b]Definition of a typical jazz gig:[/b]

Musicians playing 300 chords to an audience of 3 (and possibly a dog).

[b]Definition of a typical rock/pop gig:[/b]

Musicians playing 3 chords to an audience of 300[/quote]



Although I did once do a HM gig to two people and a dog (in a pub in Harrow). Apparently, the dog was the mosher, his owner was dragged in off the street.

Edited June 5, 2008 by bilbo230763

[john_the_bass]

I play [guitar] in a covers band, we do lots of pubs and have just cracked into the corporate/weddings/birthdays/funerals thing. The people that we play to want to hear something they recognise, something they can dance to and something they don't feel intimidated by. There are songs we don't like doing but we do them because they go down well and the punters like them and to hear them all singing along is a very good feeling. You have to draw a line somewhere though and my line was "Man I Feel Like A Woman". I spent half a day learning the guitar solo to it and when it came to practice, I played the first 3 notes and immediately felt so ashamed and emabarrassed that I refused to play anymore.

I agree with what Merton says about Joe Public.

[Merton]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='213048' date='Jun 5 2008, 10:59 AM']You have to draw a line somewhere though and my line was "Man I Feel Like A Woman".[/quote]
Funny, we drew the line at the very same song!!

[johnnylager]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=20617&st=120&p=212591&#entry212591"]Post #129[/url] Nuff said.

[Bilbo]

But that denies us the cut and thrust of debate!

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='213067' date='Jun 5 2008, 11:33 AM']But that denies us the cut and thrust of debate![/quote]

Damned right!

This thread has been far more interesting, entertaining and - frankly - meaningful than any number of posts titled [i]Your favourite bass[/i] or [i]Bands you used to like[/i] or [i]Who's the best one-legged gay Welsh bass-player[/i] or whatever.

[Galilee]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='213123' date='Jun 5 2008, 12:36 PM']This thread has been far more interesting, entertaining and - frankly - meaningful than any number of posts titled [i]Your favourite bass[/i] or [i]Bands you used to like[/i] or [i]Who's the best one-legged gay Welsh bass-player[/i] or whatever.[/quote]

+1 to that, although as the original poster I am slightly embarrassed that it's gone on this long. At least everyone's being reasonable, despite the diametrically opposing views on display.

[Bassmurf]

Well, I currently play with some old friends in a Status Quo cover band as they were desperate for a bassist, I'm not a fan of t'Quo but can appreciate the music, I find now having done it for nearly 3 years now that I've been getting seriously bored with the material as probably in any type of "boogie" band, the rhythm section can't really deviate from what has been written (and our drummer agrees!). I've never made so much money from gigging but have finally decided that I'm gonna quit at the end of the year as I can spend 2 hours doing the gig and it could go really well but I just don't get the buzz from playing the stuff as I would if I played songs by bands that I genuinely like/love.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Bassmurf' post='213159' date='Jun 5 2008, 01:04 PM']Well, I currently play with some old friends in a Status Quo cover band as they were desperate for a bassist, I'm not a fan of t'Quo but can appreciate the music, I find now having done it for nearly 3 years now that I've been getting seriously bored with the material as probably in any type of "boogie" band, the rhythm section can't really deviate from what has been written (and our drummer agrees!). I've never made so much money from gigging but have finally decided that I'm gonna quit at the end of the year as I can spend 2 hours doing the gig and it could go really well but I just don't get the buzz from playing the stuff as I would if I played songs by bands that I genuinely like/love.[/quote]

Find another tribute band and swap gigs with the bass player

[Bassmurf]

Bugger! Why didn't I think of that. Cheers Bilbo, that's got me a-thinking!

[Huggy and the Bears]

[quote name='Bassmurf' post='213172' date='Jun 5 2008, 01:11 PM']Bugger! Why didn't I think of that. Cheers Bilbo, that's got me a-thinking![/quote]

Gosh, this is terribly interesting from both a musical perspective and from a social science perspective. I think that the 'what is art' debate has been hammered throughout time and I doubt very much (despite us bass players potentially being super-beings) that we will all agree on a definition here.

I can see a degree of musical 'class snobbery' occuring here with original & jazz stuff being perceived (by some) as being higher up the food chain than some pop. In a similar way, I could be perceived as being middle class because of my job, lifestyle etc. As a human I don't believe I am better that the next man. Musically, I have my own preference of taste, style and choice of music but I would be hard pressed to define one type/style as being 'better' than another as I think that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If anyone can define a criteria that league-tables genres of music, then I believe that they would be slightly deluded and quite frankly - up their own ar#e??

[OldGit]

- I look down upon [i]him[/i] because I play from the music with panache and style and to a very small exclusive audience

- I look down upon [i]him[/i] because I play my own version of covers to packed pubs every Saturday night

- I look down on them because I earn a fortune playing in a Wurzels Tribute band.

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='OldGit' post='213220' date='Jun 5 2008, 02:02 PM']- I look down upon [i]him[/i] because I play from the music with panache and style and to a very small exclusive audience

- I look down upon [i]him[/i] because I play my own version of covers to packed pubs every Saturday night

- I look down on them because I earn a fortune playing in a Wurzels Tribute band.[/quote]

[b]Precisely!! [/b]

[Huggy and the Bears]

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='213221' date='Jun 5 2008, 02:04 PM'][b]Precisely!! [/b] [/quote]
I agree entirely!
Si.

[Bilbo]

Legitimate point but what are the criterion you are using? I was under the impression that this was a thread about function bands and integrity. I would, thus, from the comfort of my own a***, consider that, in terms of integrity, musicians that play their own music (in the broadest sense) are a cut above those who imitate others, however accurately. Those that do both are obviously compromised but I am in no way critical of them because they are living in the real world and not that of aesthetic theory.

If the discussion were function bands vs staying at home a doing sod all, which it often is, function bands would win hands down. Or if it were function bands vs djs, I would vote for function bands every time. But the debate is about integrity and I don't think people who play in function bands (myself included - did I say that already?), as opposed to doing originals, can win any arguments on integrity. To attempt to do so is little more than a justification.

[Bilbo]

Or is that an oversimplification?

[Bilbo]

I don't know. What do you think?

[Bilbo]

Too much.

[Paul Cooke]

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='213028' date='Jun 5 2008, 10:39 AM'][b]Definition of a typical jazz gig:[/b]

Musicians playing 300 chords to an audience of 3 (and possibly a dog).

[b]Definition of a typical rock/pop gig:[/b]

Musicians playing 3 chords to an audience of 300

I'm only playing Devil's Advocate here (possibly in BOTH directions?), but I think there is more than a grain of truth in that.

Generally speaking, IME, jazzers enjoy their own playing far more than any audience could ever hope to. [/quote]

Jazz used to be the main thing and highly popular... then it disappeared up it's own bxbxbx when it started getting too complicated for easy listening or dancing to... fine for the musicians playing it and any other afficianadoes in the audience, but useless for the general public who just wanted something to dance to or have in the background without having to think hard about it...

[Huggy and the Bears]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='213224' date='Jun 5 2008, 02:07 PM']Legitimate point but what are the criterion you are using? I was under the impression that this was a thread about function bands and integrity. I would, thus, from the comfort of my own a***, consider that, in terms of integrity, musicians that play their own music (in the broadest sense) are a cut above those who imitate others, however accurately. Those that do both are obviously compromised but I am in no way critical of them because they are living in the real world and not that of aesthetic theory.

If the discussion were function bands vs staying at home a doing sod all, which it often is, function bands would win hands down. Or if it were function bands vs djs, I would vote for function bands every time. But the debate is about integrity and I don't think people who play in function bands (myself included - did I say that already?), as opposed to doing originals, can win any arguments on integrity. To attempt to do so is little more than a justification.[/quote]

Hmmmm... That is one way of looking at it. Another way could be that integrity could have more than one definition. In which case, playing in a function band could mean that one has integrity.

[mcgraham]

Hmmm, just to throw in my 2p... and keep it short

I've played with a very large number of different musicians, in a very wide variety of contexts. One aspect of this that I love/loved about each of them is the musical interplay I was able to enjoy with those musicians. Another aspect of this I enjoyed was making the uninteresting, interesting! Not in a selfserving way, but making something bubblegum into something really quite special.

I think I am like Bilbo in that I do seek out expression in music, and that what is out there at the moment isn't reeeeally about expression as much as it is about having a laugh (nothing wrong with that!) and/or making money (nothing wrong with that either; just not in line with what I'm really into). I'd be happy to have a group of musos perform rarely but practice/jam/share musically often, as expression is what I'm after in one regard.

On the other hand a covers band is great fun. Repeating many song note for note is hard technically, but using pre-existing songs as frameworks for new and interesting pieces is where great creativity can really come into it's own and shine through. Both ends of the spectrum are great vehicles/mediums for creativity, improvisation, fun for the audience and the musicians, but the danger of the former is that it can become self-indulgent and pretentious, the danger of the latter is that it can become stale and soul-less.

That's just my opinion.

Mark

[OldGit]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='213226' date='Jun 5 2008, 02:10 PM']Or is that an oversimplification?[/quote]


No, but there are also different criteria for integrity. Spot on tribute bands, inventive covers bands and Jazz/rock/whatever originals all have integrity. IMHO

[john_the_bass]

hmmm.....
I play in an originals band, we can get gigs when we want them and more often than not, the gigs we do these days are supporting signed bands. However, no matter how much musical integrity I have playing in my originals band, when you put me on stage in front of an audience of 4, opening for a signed band who have allegedly opened a gig in front of 25k people and send me home empty handed, then the following week put me in a packed pub full of people enjoying watching my covers band playing songs they all know, that I get a buzz off and then send me home with cash in my pocket, I know what I believe has more value.

I have to learn other people's parts, I don't read charts but I pick up tabs now and again to just make sure I am playing the thing right - sometimes it's easy, sometime's other people's parts are quite difficult to learn but I think it's made me a better musician by making me play in a different style to my own - ok so it's someone else's style, but so what?

[Ba55me15ter]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='213224' date='Jun 5 2008, 02:07 PM']...I would, thus, from the comfort of my own a***, consider that, in terms of integrity, musicians that play their own music (in the broadest sense) are a cut above those who imitate others, however accurately.[/quote]

What if their own music really, really sucks?