Payment for Dep gigs

[Delberthot]

I've recently found myself in the position of not having a regular band anymore so am doing dep work with various bands.

there's one band that I'm doing a fair amount of work for doing weddings and functions. I had the feeling that i was getting less than the other regular members of the band and had this confirmed last night when overheard someone last night saying words to the effect of there's XXXXX (band member's) money and there's YYYYYY (YYYYY being me)

Now in other wedding bands I'm getting anywhere between £160 - £200 per wedding which is evenly split between all members and me.

I'm coming out of every gig with £100 which is still good but there's no way a fully booked wedding band is going out for £500. A drummer friend who has also played with them told me to watch out as the band leader would try to pay me less. These are big, expensive wedding venues as well.

So what do I do?

If I get it wrong I risk losing out on a lot of work but I've put a lot of effort and time into learning their set in a short space of time only for the band leader to withhold money that he would normally have paid their regular bass player. I'm always first there and I'm the first to help them loading and unloading their gear after I've moved mine.


They are a good band and I get on well with them but I don't want to approach this the wrong way or do I just keep quiet?

Edited April 28, 2013 by Delberthot

[The Dark Lord]

When you agree to do any form of paid work for anyone, you should agree a deal which suits everyone.

You might agree to a deal where you get an even split of the fee, you might agree a standard fee. Whatever is the case, that should be that.

That's it. End of story. There is no fair and unfair, there is only the agreed fee.

If either party doesn't like the arrangement, they can stop working together. Simples.

Edited April 28, 2013 by The Dark Lord

[spacey]

Well they certainly wont be rushing to fill the job if they are all making £100 extra by having a depper in.

[ironside1966]

A band is a business and you are employed to do some work it is not a profit share and you are not a charity.
Ask for what you think you are worth and let the band get what they are worth.

[stingrayPete1977]

Im always torn on this, on one hand the dep is getting them out of a whole and if the dep is good and the band still sound the same then part of me says the dep should get an equal split for being able to fill the slot, on the other hand the dep does not pay for their share of expensive items such as the PA and lighting rigs etc so maybe a small cut should be taken back for that?

In my own head then if the gig is £600 and you have saved the day and played well etc then I would be happy to take the full £150 if it was a 4 piece band but maybe still happy to do it for as little as £100-125 if it was local etc and a one off, if it was regular then them £50s will start to stack up and they are getting a bass player worth the extra if the gigs are still coming in.

[stingrayPete1977]

FWIW I have never been offered/asked to take less than the full share divided equally between the number of band members after expenses (PA hire and fuel), even if some of them have been as low as £25

[Dad3353]

I don't see how what others are getting affects the deal. If you've agreed to play for a sum, then that's the deal. What did you discuss when you took the dates on..? Was a rate agreed (I would have thought so...)..? If so, I don't see the problem if you're getting that rate. Perhaps others have a different arrangement (shares in the PA, or van..?). If it bugs you, take it up with the 'boss'; if not, let it ride.
Just my tuppence-worth.

[JTUK]

I can see this as normal...

The band may have costs that need to come from a kitty and it is these gigs that fill the kitty.

If they are treating you like the hired help...then do exactly what that is, which is to turn up and play.

There are advantages and disadvantages to being in a band and we have had deps tell us what their min fee is...
and if we had paid that min fee to all, the gig wouldn't have covered it. That is unfair to the regular guys, so
I could understand putting deps on less money on bigger payers to pay for that.
Roundabouts and swings...rob Peter to pay Paul.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1367170486' post='2062098']
I don't see how what others are getting affects the deal. If you've agreed to play for a sum, then that's the deal. What did you discuss when you took the dates on..? Was a rate agreed (I would have thought so...)..? If so, I don't see the problem if you're getting that rate. Perhaps others have a different arrangement (shares in the PA, or van..?). If it bugs you, take it up with the 'boss'; if not, let it ride.
Just my tuppence-worth.
[/quote]

See I agree with this too which contradicts what I just said I guess maybe what I think is if they rang and said "its £800 but the PA is £150 and there is 5 members so its £130 each is that OK?" then I found out it was £1000 I would feel a bit pissed off, If they said "its £130 the gig is at X venue X miles away 1 am finish if you want it?" and I agreed I probably would not be arsed either way unless they were trying to get you to every gig saving them £50-75 a gig, then I would turn them down.

[JapanAxe]

As others have said, it all comes down to what was agreed beforehand. I have actually paid a dep [i]more[/i] than the other band members (including myself), in recognition of the fact that he was a professional making a living at it (unlike the rest of us) and was saving our bacon.

[ironside1966]

I have had this before and my attitude is
When you have invested the time and the money to get the band to where it is today then you can have equal splits.

[Ziphoblat]

I [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1367170134' post='2062090']
Im always torn on this, on one hand the dep is getting them out of a whole and if the dep is good and the band still sound the same then part of me says the dep should get an equal split for being able to fill the slot, on the other hand the dep does not pay for their share of expensive items such as the PA and lighting rigs etc so maybe a small cut should be taken back for that?
[/quote]

On the other hand the dep has spent time learning material, some of which he'll potentially never play again in his entire life.

[lurksalot]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1367167926' post='2062033']
When you agree to do any form of paid work for anyone, you should agree a deal which suits everyone.

You might agree to a deal where you get an even split of the fee, you might agree a standard fee. Whatever is the case, that should be that.

That's it. End of story. There is no fair and unfair, there is only the agreed fee.

If either party doesn't like the arrangement, they can stop working together. Simples.
[/quote]

this is it , in the real world if an organisation has to hire in staff that aren't part of its normal crew , it expects to pay extra , but it is negotiated , the parties have different agendas, coming to an agreement is all that matters.

[Junkyard Rocket]

This kind of reminds me of Sunday dinners when I was young. My brother would get his dinner set in front of him & be quite happy with what was on his plate, but then as everyone else at the table got theirs, he'd count their potatoes & complain if anyone had more than he did.

[BassBod]

If its an ongoing thing, and you're not happy, then re-negotiate. There's a risk they'll stop using you...but there's also the risk that they are getting more than a "fair share" of your time and skills. Balance it up and see how you feel about it.

I'd be happy with regular guaranteed fee and little long term comitment...but if I was certain they were getting a lot more I'd be talking to the organiser about having the regular fee and no expenses - so I'd be asking for my travel costs to each gig to be covered. They'll either agree (and probably still be better off) or use someone else. Be prepared for a brush off and silence.

[danthevan]

It's all down to what you want out of it. Doesn't matter a toss if the rest of the band are earning £1k each, you say you want £x , do your job and walk away with £x.
If your £x is more than they want to pay, then don't do it.

[EBS_freak]

The way my function band works is that the band leader takes a mgmt fee for all the bullshizz that they have to deal with it before the event. I couldn't be bothered with all that, so I have no problem with him taking that fee.

Everything else is made clear - a dep gets exactly the same as everybody else, the fee that is paid to every other member. That way, there are no arguments and it's clear to see that nobody is trying to get one over the other. If you don't like that, don't dep with us... or if you demand more money, don't expect any futher deps for us. If you've learnt the stuff well, you will get the call when it comes to deps. Simple. And with a band that has 70 odd gigs between now and the end of the year, you will get the call at some point.

If the PA needs repairing, cost is split between the band members - afterall, they all need it to be there otherwise there is no gig.

[fretmeister]

"Dep Bassist wanted for wedding show on the 2nd of January. 3 hour show + a rehearsal. Pay is £150 all in"


It's an advert. Take it or do not take it. There is no re-negotiation after acceptance.

Deps don't invest in the band so shouldn't expect profit share. At the same time they have no liability for PA repairs and advertising etc.

That being said - if the band cocks up a booking and needs a dep FOR TONIGHT!!!!! then the band pays whatever the dep asks for, if the band wants to keep the gig. That would be a mistake by the band and the band members take the hit.

[Commando Jack]

As far as I'm concerned a dep is a sub-contracted party who comes in to do a job. It doesn't matter what the profits/overheads of the band are, the price should be agreed at the time the gig is booked. If the band asked the dep to join them as a full time member, I'd expect equal pay/ a share in the profits, but I'd also expect to have to buy into the business (usually having to buy a share of the PA or some such up front).

[Conan]

I'd say £100 a gig was pretty good - especially as you haven't had to pay into the PA, rehearsals or any other costs. But it depends on the band of course. If you hate the material and only do it for the dosh, then a ton might not cover your umbrage. If you like the band and the material, I'd just keep schtum and take the cash.

[lonestar]

The regulars in the band are paying rehearsal fees, marketing costs and doing more of the legwork so it seems fair thathey take slightly more of the split. We often take £120 eac and pay dep sax players £100

[JTUK]

We offer the dep a fee that we are happy to pay... it is up to them if they take it.
If we need to bump up the pub money to make them happy, it will come out of the kitty
which we have all paid into. The dep will get decent money anyway...but for the big payers..they will get less as the kitty needs to be fed.

If I am doing a dep..I either take the gig or I don't.

[lonestar]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1368636532' post='2079579']

They are also getting to play a gig that they otherwise wouldn't if they didn't have a dep!
[/quote]
Yes but the deps, profit is greater if not equal given the other band expenses and chores that they have not contributed to.
Eg Pa website,flyers, actually procuring the gigs
However one band i depped for slipped me an extra £20 for the extra travelling as i was the only non local and sat in on four rehearsals. Which was nice.

[spacey]

Why should the dep pay towards rehearsal costs, if a band has rehearsal costs it is quite obvious the depp is a fair few pegs higher up and does not need to rehearse.
You would expect to pay someone of that calibre equally or possibly a bit more.

[blamelouis]

Take the money smile and put it down to experience.