PAT certificate

[PaulWarning]

has anybody been asked for this before they play a gig? we never have, in fact nobody's even bothered looking at the labels on the equipment

[danthevan]

Will usually be your bigger venues who have a health and safety policy to stick by.
Usually cost you around £50-£75 for up to 50 items, which should cover everything you own.
Other way to do it is to buy the stickers from RS and just slap them on stuff

[Bassmonkey]

Yeah we have em. Costs us £50 per year and are insisted on by larger venues. I have to send the certs when booking in advance although we have never had the equipment checked on the night for stickers.

[HeavyJay]

Many venues require sight of that certificate and proof of PLI before allowing you to play. Generally hotels and function venues for weddings and the like. We email them copies generally and I keep a copy with me on the night just in case.

Never had anyone check closely for stickers either although they might just see the stickers from afar!

A couple of places ask for a risk assessment to be filled out too. Those filing cabinets aren't going to fill themselves.

[discreet]

[quote name='Bassmonkey' timestamp='1367242465' post='2063019']...Costs us £50 per year and are insisted on by larger venues. I have to send the certs when booking in advance...[/quote]

IME if you don't have a contract with a venue which wants the certs up front, it's unlikely you will be challenged on the night.

[PaulWarning]

my band have been told that we need one on several occasions but nobody has ever asked to see it.

[JTUK]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1367242035' post='2063007']
has anybody been asked for this before they play a gig? we never have, in fact nobody's even bothered looking at the labels on the equipment
[/quote]

Yes... a few times. Depending how many plugs you have, it is cheap enough per year
Money for old rope for sparkies..... who will admit that very thing,..

[Jah Wibble]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1367250591' post='2063155']
Yes... a few times. Depending how many plugs you have, it is cheap enough per year
Money for old rope for sparkies..... who will admit that very thing,..
[/quote]


+1..........Generally a bit of a con, but one upheld by the HSE...

Edited April 29, 2013 by Jah Wibble

[arthurhenry]

Only been asked to show it once and that was after we'd set up! My understanding is that for gear with seperate power leads, only the leads need to be tested, which saves getting all your kit out when they come to test.

[keeponehandloose]

and the piece of epuipment is less than 12 months old you dont need a cert at all.

[Jah Wibble]

[quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1367260597' post='2063363']
and the piece of epuipment is less than 12 months old you dont need a cert at all.
[/quote]


.....word..

[Ziphoblat]

Been told several times we needed them, we got some stickers from a friend (electrician) and just whacked them on all our gear. Nobody has ever actually followed up and checked anyway, so it was a bit of a waste of time really.

[flyfisher]

The risk with that approach is that if a piece of your faulty equipment causes a problem and you don't have the PAT records to justify the stickers then you move into the realm of fraud as well as negligence, which won't look good in court if a frayed mains cable has just electrocuted someone.

Just saying.

[steve-bbb]

[Ziphoblat]

That's fair enough if you're not able to check for faults, but we're well aware that none of our gear is faulty and it gets checked regularly for things like frayed cables.

[Telebass]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1367262395' post='2063407']
The risk with that approach is that if a piece of your faulty equipment causes a problem and you don't have the PAT records to justify the stickers then you move into the realm of fraud as well as negligence, which won't look good in court if a frayed mains cable has just electrocuted someone.

Just saying.
[/quote]

Exactly. Either do it, or don't do it. Don't pretend. It's not THAT expensive (OK, I have a vested interest here...), but it makes no sense to fake it, because it isn't the stickers they will eventually ask for, it's the certificate. The stickers are so that if they are so minded, they can cross-check what's on the certificate with what's sitting in front of them.

[Telebass]

And, as someone mentioned on here a long time back, if they ask for your cert, ask for their fixed installation certificates. Most will walk away.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1367260597' post='2063363']
and the piece of equipment is less than 12 months old you don't need a cert at all.
[/quote]
so you can just say your gear is less than 12 months old then?
It's just another pain in the arse, we share the storage and transportation of gear, the only time it's in one place is at a gig

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1367262943' post='2063426']
And, as someone mentioned on here a long time back, if they ask for your cert, ask for their fixed installation certificates. Most will walk away.
[/quote]

Good point. At work i need to have every piece of kit checked and all fuse / distribution boards checked so works both ways i guess.
Must admit i never gave this a 2nd thought to be honest but i'm lucky enough to have electricians with the gear to PAT test.
Dave

[spacey]

Then the Singer takes full pints of water on stage in glasses that end up all over the floor every gig !
Who else has this problem.

[danthevan]

The PAT test only shows the bit of kit was ok when it was tested, doesn't mean it will be trouble free for 12 months. Therefore, not worth the sticker it's written on in all honesty.

[Jah Wibble]

Here's some free advice

Have it all PAT tested with a machine once. This will cover you for up to 5 years.......BUT

Visually inspect your gear regularly If a plug is broken, replace it PROPERLY. Don't leave a load of bare wires outside the terminals. If you don't know how to wire a plug, don't be daft and have ago without checking, just look it up or get someone who does know FFS.

If you see insulation showing or if there is any damage on a cable, shorten the cable pass the point where it's damaged OR replace it.

Fuse ratings are:
Anything under 700 watts is a 3 or a 5 amp, anything over is 13. All extensions must have a 13amp fuse.

97% of all failures during PAT testing are found on a visual inspection. It's a lot to do with common sense, if you're going to use something regularly in an environment where it may get damaged, yanked, have stuff spilled on it. check it for any damage before the gig. If something isn't how it should be-get it fixed or replace it.

Some of you may or may not know this but...you don't even need to be an electrician to carry out PATs........just competent.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Jah Wibble

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Jah Wibble' timestamp='1367270905' post='2063635']
........just competent.
[/quote]

Ah, but there's the problem. Define 'competent' and how you can prove you qualify.

[Jah Wibble]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1367274438' post='2063677']
Ah, but there's the problem. Define 'competent' and how you can prove you qualify.
[/quote]

Well a competent person would be someone who has read and understood one of these
[url="http://electrical.theiet.org/books/inspection-test/in-service-inspection-4th-ed.cfm"]http://electrical.th...tion-4th-ed.cfm[/url]

Thats why I suggested people have ALL their gear fully checked at least once every 5 years, and then carry out user checks/visual inspections more regularly. You don't need to have completed PAT training to carry out these checks.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Jah Wibble

[Telebass]

Realistically, 'competent', if you're not a sparkie, means having done a simple course at the very least. I was an electronic s calibration engineer in a previous life, so it was part of my job to be fully qualified, so a C&G certificate was taken. Still only a one day course, followed by an exam. Other folk on the course had never had reason to do electrical stuff before, and they struggled.
The thing is, the length of time between tests is down to the equipment owner. If you gig a dozen times a year, then a PAT test every two or three years is entirely reasonable. If you gig three times a week, annually would probably be more prudent.