The first time I heard Jaco.....

[toneknob]

I was intially exposed to Jaco's first solo album and found it a bit too much - then I discovered his Joni Mitchell material (fantastic), Weather Report (ditto) and have come full circle to appreciate his solo work and more ambitious albums a lot more in recent years. I'm almost at the point where I can sit through all of Trio Of Doom without wanting to break something

[toneknob]

Oh look, it's on spotify: [url="http://open.spotify.com/artist/5cYQN4cYERoObzjv0lbejX"]Trio Of Doom[/url]

Update: I can't sit through it all without wanting to break something

[risingson]

First time I heard Jaco I'd bought his solo album after being told I should listen, thrown it on and was stumped, I thought it was some kind of horn player. One of my favourite bass players even if I don't listen to him anymore, he was the gateway to understanding a lot of things for me.

[louisthebass]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1367322189' post='2064105']
Simply 'alright'..? Some of the finest music this side of Schubert..? Not just because of Jaco, of course, but I'd love to hear 'better' than this, if it exists. Any recommendations..?
[/quote]

Any post on BC that has Jaco as the main topic of conversation will always divide opinion. People either like him or they don't (I do but that is neither here nor there), which is perfectly ok as everyone on here has their own idea of what great music is.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1367332804' post='2064330']...everyone on here has their own idea of what great music is.[/quote]

Aw, come on..! Joni Mitchell..? Hejira..? Shadows and Light..? Nah, it's as close to perfection as we're likely to get this side of Paradise, surely..?

Just ribbin', really, but surprised just the same to see simply 'alright'. No fuss, no big deal. It's like not liking Bentleys, or Earl Grey. Funny old world, eh..?

Edited April 30, 2013 by Dad3353

[dlloyd]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1367331281' post='2064301']
Oh look, it's on spotify: [url="http://open.spotify.com/artist/5cYQN4cYERoObzjv0lbejX"]Trio Of Doom[/url]

Update: I can't sit through it all without wanting to break something
[/quote]

The first track is a bit grating, isn't it?

[color=#000000][font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif][size=1][quote name='John McLaughlin'](laughs) Yes indeed, the Trio of Doom. That trio was unbelievable. It was amazing. When they were on it was unbelievable to play with those guys. Anyway, rehearsals were phenomenal. We had only three tunes that we were going to play (at the historic Havana Jam in Cuba). So we went down to Havana and we had a tune each. We started off with my tune, The Dark Prince, which was a kind of blues in Cminor with some altered changes. But the thing is, Jaco altered everything. He turned his amp up to 11 and started to play A major, which is like a little far away from C minor...and unbelievably loud! So we start to play the tune, Tony's looking at me, I'm looking at Tony and it's like, What the f***' And in the meantime Jaco's upfront with the bass between his legs, doing his thing...it was almost like Jimi Hendrix. And the whole set went like that. When we finished the set, I was so angry at Jaco. Tony too. And we walked off stage and Tony was already up and running to the bathroom...he was about to throw up. Anyway, Jaco came down and said, Oh, man, you bad mother! And I said, What' You have the nerve to speak to me after this travesty on stage. I don't even want to see your face, I don't want to hear you, I don't want to see you. And it all came out, and in about 15 minutes later it was fine. But Tony couldn't get it out, right' And it was such a farce. Anyway, CBS called me about two weeks later and said, So, we're going to put it out. And I said, You're going to put what out' You're not going to put that out. You put it out over my dead body. That's terrible. So they asked if we wanted to re-record it over at Columbia Studios on 52nd Street. So we all went into the great CBS Studio on 52nd Street where we did all those great things with Miles -- In A Silent Way, Bitches Brew and all of that. So we start re-recording the tunes and in the meantime, Tony's not looking at Jaco. I mean, forget about speaking, he's not even looking at him. And Jaco's already very nervous. So we start playing and we did my tune again. So we do one take and we go in the control room to listen back and Jaco says, Well, I think we can do it better. And all of a sudden Tony jumps in front of Jaco and says, Better' Better, m*****f***er'!! He pushed Jaco up against the wall. I had never seen Tony angry but that was like a little volcano action, man, I tell you. And Jaco's like...Hey man, I'm sorry, man, I'm sorry. Tony didn't hit 'em or anything, but when Tony got mad you just get out of the way. He had Jaco up against the wall and Jaco was like apologizing profusely. He knew he f***ed up bigtime. So after 10 minutes of Tony blasting him with both barrels, Tony went into the studio and destroyed his drumkit. (laughter). And I said, You gotta record with this! He destroyed his kit and walked out of the studio and that was it. What a shame. But hey, who's perfect in this world' But I told Jaco off right away back in Havana. I got rid of all the rats and snakes right off the stage, but Tony had it balling up, stewing around there for a while for he finally exploded. He always had difficulty with getting it right out. So yeah...Jaco was crazy, but what a player! He was too much. Boy I miss him. I miss Tony too. What a tragedy.[/quote][/size][/font][/color]

[risingson]

Great story, I'm sure he was capable of being a massive pain in the arse at times.

Edited April 30, 2013 by risingson

[spongebob]

I really like the 'Trio Of Doom' stuff - even that Havana take of 'The Dark Prince'!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcMKWGTBGRM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcMKWGTBGRM[/url]

....and here's the John Mclaughlin original -

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh80RM4YfT8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kh80RM4YfT8[/url]

[peteb]

[color=#222222]There seems to be always the same argument here about Jaco. I think that he was one of the all-time greats who transcended his instrument in the same way that Hendrix, Charlie Parker and a select group of others did.[/color]

[color=#222222]I’m not a jazz fan at all and I find much of his stuff very heavy going (ok, unlistenable) but his first solo album and some of the Weather Report and Joni stuff are undeniably great. If nothing else, Teen Town and Portrait of Tracy are great tunes[/color]

[color=#222222][quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1367323035' post='2064119']
I also think some people buy into that troubled genius backstory too.
[/quote][/color]
[color=#222222]Are you sure that you’re not falling into the same trap with Scot Thunes??[/color]

Edited April 30, 2013 by peteb

[louisthebass]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1367336004' post='2064385']
Aw, come on..! Joni Mitchell..? Hejira..? Shadows and Light..? Nah, it's as close to perfection as we're likely to get this side of Paradise, surely..?

Just ribbin', really, but surprised just the same to see simply 'alright'. No fuss, no big deal. It's like not liking Bentleys, or Earl Grey. Funny old world, eh..?
[/quote]

I know where you're coming from - funnily enough I think JP's best work was with Joni too. Those two albums have taken a fair amount of listening to in my CD players over the years .

[Chris2112]

The first time I heard Jaco I didn't quite 'get' what the fuss was about. Then I checked out the stuff he had done with Weather Report and it all clicked. He is for me, one of the best sidemen of all time but I am slightly less interested in his stuff as a soloist or a bandleader. His groove is as strong as steel!

[Bilbo]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9iaqFtyWfE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9iaqFtyWfE[/url]

This was the one I was talking about. I was a 17yr old rocker and the opening guitar got me right away but the rest of it was so fresh sounding to my naive ears. 1.19 on was lovely and then, bang, the groove at 2.34 and then again at 3.06.

[EssentialTension]

On Hejira, so 1976 I guess, excellent but I like the Max Bennett tracks too.

But I've never liked Jaco just doing his own thing - always seems soulless to me - I know y''all disagree.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1367353072' post='2064672']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9iaqFtyWfE[/media]

This was the one I was talking about. I was a 17yr old rocker and the opening guitar got me right away but the rest of it was so fresh sounding to my naive ears. 1.19 on was lovely and then, bang, the groove at 2.34 and then again at 3.06.
[/quote]
I liked that a lot.

[thisnameistaken]

I'd heard of Jaco when I started learning bass but I hadn't heard him play, and then I saw a copy of his live album 'Invitation' in a second-hand record shop so I got it. And for about two years after that I couldn't stop putting in those Jaco licks in everything I played, so I suppose he had quite an influence on me.

I don't sound anything like him these days, although I do still listen to him sometimes. I do get tired of hearing those over-used licks of his but when he was really in the zone and improvising he was peerless. I think people see the rock 'n' roll stories and forget how all-round good he was. And not just as a bassist.

[Zenitram]

Is there anything like a definitive Pastorius song? One to make me go... ahhh, wow, yes, that's good. One with, well, you know, a tune. None of the ones here seem to be doing it -- and I don't mind a bit of fusion (though the less guitar the better). Did he write Birdland? I think he played on it, didn't he.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1367359059' post='2064796']
Is there anything like a definitive Pastorius song? One to make me go... ahhh, wow, yes, that's good. One with, well, you know, a tune. None of the ones here seem to be doing it -- and I don't mind a bit of fusion (though the less guitar the better). Did he write Birdland? I think he played on it, didn't he.
[/quote]
Portrait of Brian

[risingson]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1367359059' post='2064796']
Did he write Birdland? I think he played on it, didn't he.
[/quote]

Might have had a hand in it but it will have been Zawinul who wrote it.

[EMG456]

It's as well that we're all different, eh?

I can never understand a lot of bass players' attitude to Jaco. I've spoken with a few over the years who don't like the music. don't like the tone, don't like the bass playing tunes up front etc. etc. All this from players who were themselves barely adequate in my opinion - was it jealousy? Or did they really just simply not understand the music?

I suppose we are now so far away in time from Jaco's heyday that it's ancient history to a lot of younger players.

So for those who weren't there at the time, I have to tell you that Jaco was a game changer. He took the humble bass guitar and turned it into something extraordinary and we had seen nothing like it. Don't forget that we had no internet, no mobile devices, no youtube - no warning. When I saw him with Weather Report in the late 70's I knew that the way I approach bass could never be the same again, simple as that.

He was the most complete, rounded, musical bass player I ever expect to see and without a doubt, the bravest and most expressive.

I guess the problem is that he didn't fit the mould then and he doesn't fit it again now. In an age when many players aspire to playing a Fender bass with flatwound strings which are mostly covered over with big chrome ashtrays, I can see that they won't like the totally "in yer face" sound of Jaco in full flight but hey - there's always time...tastes change and the cycle goes round again. :-)

One of a kind and my greatest bass hero.

Cheers

Ed

[icastle]

[quote name='EMG456' timestamp='1367367167' post='2064874']
I've spoken with a few over the years who don't like the music. don't like the tone, don't like the bass playing tunes up front etc. etc. All this from players who were themselves barely adequate in my opinion - was it jealousy? Or did they really just simply not understand the music?
[/quote]

It's not 'jealousy' and not liking him certainly does not make me a 'barely adequate' player.
It's not even a case of 'not understanding the music', it just bores me to the point where I just can't be bothered to listen to it.

Do I get het up about it?
Do I heck, I just steer clear of it and get on with stuff that matters to me.

[RandomBass]

An interesting and enlightening thread. Thanks for all the good listening recommendations.....

[thisnameistaken]

There's no rule that says you have to like Jaco. Most of his trademark licks feature in Joni Mitchell's 'The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines' so if you don't like that you probably won't like most of his playing.

[visog]

BBC2 in the early '80s played the Shadows and Light concert (and in the same week, a Clarke/Duke concert!).

It was the harmonics on 'Coyote' that got me...

[Dr.Dave]

Sorry - but much as I can recognise and admire his technical skills and it's great that a guy can bring his instrument up front in a way that's been inspirational to many - his stuff leaves me clap cold and I lose interest in seconds. Fret(less) w***ing , pure and simple. Not for me.

It's like Mark King - fair play to these guys but I'm not so dumb that I can't recognise a bass player doing his job properly. I'd rather save my applause for folk who do that.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Dr.Dave

[Bilbo]

Doing their job vs redefining the job. Mmmmmm, let me think?