PaulWarning Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 because we're all narcissists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1367265573' post='2063492'] My real question is why do some of us spend huge amounts of time and money on recording our original songs, making wonderfully crafted videos, creating elaborate websites and actively promoting our gigs when the vast majority of people will listen politely for the three minutes or so before politely saying 'yeah, very nice' and then carrying on with their lives as if nothing had happened? Three minutes for them, but days, weeks, months of minutely detailed effort for us. [/quote] But unless your band is crap or severely lacking in imagination these things don't have to take up lots of time and cost lots of money. Recording the first 7 Dick Venom songs cost us a grand total of zero pounds. In fact our total recording budget for the first 3 years of our existence which has produced some 16 finished tracks, has been just over £1000, and has nearly all been paid for by money earned playing gigs. The StickyPants Trance video cost less than £500 to make. That's £125 each. I know plenty of people who'll piss that away (and more) on a Saturday night out. We had a lot of fun making the video and have something more to show for our money than a hangover. The X-Rated Man video was shot and edited in a single day and cost us nothing. IMO if your spending lots of money on the band for any reason other than you want to be spending it doing something you love, then you have it all wrong. Writing, playing and recording music as a hobby should be fun. If it's not you should be asking yourself why not, and why are you still doing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1367310472' post='2063890'] Because we want to and because we can. What other reason do you need? You could say this about anyone's hobby. Why do people waste their time playing golf? In the pub? Spend ridiculous amounts of money on cars when something much cheaper will get them from A to B just as well? And in fact most hobbies don't give you the opportunity to actually make some money back doing them like writing and playing music does. [/quote] Yep, I entirely get the "because we want to" thing, but it's interesting to compare making music to any other hobby as I think thats where there's a big difference. I don't understand why people waste time playing golf or sitting in the pub either - presumably it's that "because they want to" thing - but the big difference is that they don't (I think) tend to make videos of themselves playing golf and posting them on the web. They don't invite their mates along to watch them play golf. they don't encourage complete strangers to come along and watch them play golf. They are (in the main) perfectly happy to pursue their golf hobby with a few friends and without seeking the approval of unknown others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1367326130' post='2064181'] The X-Rated Man video was shot and edited in a single day and cost us nothing. [/quote] it cost you all a day of your lives, a day that could have been spent doing something else instead of creating a 3 minute record of a song that only a handful of people will ever watch. That's not a criticism and you clearly enjoyed doing it so all credit to you. I guess I don't have the 'performer' gene and therefore lack the desire to impress anyone. I'm not suggesting there are any rights and wrongs to all this, just trying to understand other people's motivations a bit more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1367265573' post='2063492'] ...why do some of us spend huge amounts of time and money on recording our original songs, making wonderfully crafted videos, creating elaborate websites and actively promoting our gigs when the vast majority of people will listen politely for the three minutes or so before politely saying 'yeah, very nice' and then carrying on with their lives as if nothing had happened? Three minutes for them, but days, weeks, months of minutely detailed effort for us... [/quote] Why? In our case to play to promoters to get gigs. Certainly not huge amounts of time and money, either. Our tumblr site took less than an hour, our three promo tracks took less than a day to record and mix and our video took an afternoon. All links in my sig, should you feel so inclined. Edited April 30, 2013 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1367326573' post='2064195'] it cost you all a day of your lives, a day that could have been spent doing something else instead of creating a 3 minute record of a song that only a handful of people will ever watch. That's not a criticism and you clearly enjoyed doing it so all credit to you. I guess I don't have the 'performer' gene and therefore lack the desire to impress anyone. I'm not suggesting there are any rights and wrongs to all this, just trying to understand other people's motivations a bit more. [/quote] But what else would we have done instead? What would you have done with your time rather than spend a day making a music video for your band? In fact why do you even play music? Sometimes I get the impression it holds no more importance to you then watching the TV. It's simply a way to fill some of your time. That's not a criticism either. Simply an observation that your lifestyle priorities are different to mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1367327006' post='2064207'] What would you have done with your time rather than spend a day making a music video for your band? [/quote] Quite. Time spent rehearsing, or recording, or writing, or gigging, or making a vid, or doing anything musically creative is time that hasn't been wasted, in my humble opinion. I can't think of anything I'd rather be doing. With the possible exception of flying a kite. Edited April 30, 2013 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1367326573' post='2064195'] it cost you all a day of your lives, a day that could have been spent doing something else instead of creating a 3 minute record of a song that only a handful of people will ever watch. [/quote] Is it really about how much time it took or how many people will watch it? I think if there's something you want to do, like make a video for your band, then do it. Making videos is fun too, and if you can't take a day to have fun without your motives being questioned, what can you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1367327006' post='2064207'] In fact why do you even play music? Sometimes I get the impression it holds no more importance to you then watching the TV. It's simply a way to fill some of your time. That's not a criticism either. Simply an observation that your lifestyle priorities are different to mine. [/quote] Fair comment (well, except the about watching TV, of which I do very little) - different people, different priorities. Personally, making music is important to me but it's far from an all-consuming passion. There are far too many other interesting things to do and experience in our short lifetimes. I couldn't possibly imagine only having one interest consuming most of my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Whether it's someone's taste in sexual partners or someone's music collection we can always be surprised by the choices others make. So musically some want to produce albums, some of us do music videos whilst others are into cover bands. Personally I've always been very driven by music & it's no surprise when I see old friends I haven't seen for 20yrs the first thing they always say is a variation around the "I'm pleased you're still playing" theme. I stopped trying to analyse or understand my motivations a long time ago. It is inherently just something that is a huge part of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1367327822' post='2064222'] I couldn't possibly imagine only having one interest consuming most of my time. [/quote] Not even fly fishing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I would like to spend all my time lying on the sofa, puffing away on my cyber-fag, reading a book and drinking wine. Sadly my liver (and my wife) think i should do something a little less destructive with my time, and I'm not bad at this music malarkey either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1367327822' post='2064222'] Personally, making music is important to me but it's far from an all-consuming passion. There are far too many other interesting things to do and experience in our short lifetimes. I couldn't possibly imagine only having one interest consuming most of my time. [/quote] I agree. I am consumed by music. But those who exclude all else are usually the ones making dull music with little or no life. You have to have a life, you have to be an observer of human behaviour, otherwise most of your music will have little relevance to anyone else. I do a lot of stuff and interested in a lot of things, but music is running through it all, even when I'm cooking or fishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I don't think there's a simple answer for me. Different musical activities fulfill different needs. I think there's something special about making music with other people - when it comes together well and you have the sense of the sum being greater than the parts, that can be quite magical. There's also the social aspect to that - sharing an activity with others, all pursuing a common goal, can foster a sense of companionship - I imagine that's similar to the buzz some people get from playing team sports. I'm not so bothered about the performing per se, but it does provide a focus for our efforts, and we do have a lot of fun when we're out and about. Then there's the satisfaction to be derived from learning to play an instrument, even if you only ever play it at home to yourself - the same satisfaction that can come from learning to do almost anything well, seeing yourself improve, mastering things that once seemed difficult or impossible. When it comes to my recording / composing /arranging projects, it's more about hearing something in my head and wanting to get it out into the world and make it a reality. I don't always enjoy the process of making it a reality - recording can be a very frustrating experience on occasion. Success here is measured for me by the extent to which what I finally produce embodies my initial vision. Whether anyone else likes it, or even listens to it, is far less important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1367331891' post='2064316'] I agree. I am consumed by music. But those who exclude all else are usually the ones making dull music with little or no life. You have to have a life, you have to be an observer of human behaviour, otherwise most of your music will have little relevance to anyone else. I do a lot of stuff and interested in a lot of things, but music is running through it all, even when I'm cooking or fishing. [/quote] You could argue that music doesn't need to have relevance to anybody except yourself though. In all likelihood, there is always going to be someone who can relate to your music, but was that one of the things you thought of when writing it? It's not for me. I've written a song about depression before. Plenty of people suffer with depression, in fact, more then plenty, it's really common, but i wasn't writing it for them to relate to, I was writing it for catharsis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1367328401' post='2064234'] Not even fly fishing? [/quote] I admit I could spend a whole day fly-fishing, but I certainly couldn't spend [u]every[/u] day fly-fishing. It's just one thing on a long list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted April 30, 2013 Author Share Posted April 30, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1367331891' post='2064316'] I agree. I am consumed by music. But those who exclude all else are usually the ones making dull music with little or no life. You have to have a life, you have to be an observer of human behaviour, otherwise most of your music will have little relevance to anyone else. I do a lot of stuff and interested in a lot of things, but music is running through it all, even when I'm cooking or fishing. [/quote] That's a great way to sum it all up . . . for me anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1367333936' post='2064354'] I admit I could spend a whole day fly-fishing, but I certainly couldn't spend [u]every[/u] day fly-fishing. [/quote] Reminds me of a story I heard years ago (possibly by PG Wodehouse???) Apologies if I get some of the fishing terminology wrong. Country squire arrives at the Pearly Gates and is welcomed by St Peter. "I won't be much trouble", he says, "if you could just find me a nice stretch of river with a few trout in, that'd do me nicely. Fishing's the only the thing I've ever really cared about, don't y'know". "Ah", says St.Peter, "come with me, I think we have the very thing for you", and he leads him through the gates and at length they arrive at an idyllic river scene, with soft grassy banks, beautiful trees for shade, set in glorious rolling countryside. "This is perfect!" exclaims the squire. "Glad you like it", says St Peter, and hands him the most exquisite rod he's ever seen. The squire handles it admiringly, feels the free-running reel, the perfect balance of weight and elasticity, and prepares to cast. The moment his line hits the water, a magnificent specimen of trout takes the bait, and after a few minutes of playing him, the squire reels him in to his landing net. "Fabulous!", he thinks, and prepares to cast again. Once again, no sooner has he cast his line than another huge trout is caught on the hook. Again, he carefully reels in his catch. "Well I never!", he says to himself, "I've never had a day like this in all my life!". His third cast and fourth cast are met with further instantaneous successes, and when his fifth cast has the same result he feels just a trace of annoyance. After a dozen catches, he is starting to get a bit fed up. He turns to St Peter and says, "look, old chap, if it's all the same to you, I think I'll try a bit further along, and see what it's like there". "I'm sorry", replies St Peter, "I'm afraid you have to stay here until you've caught them all". "Oh hell" says the squire. "That's right" says St Peter. Edited May 1, 2013 by Earbrass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 [quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1367398036' post='2064999'] Reminds me of a story I heard years ago (possibly by PG Woodhouse???) Apologies if I get some of the fishing terminology wrong. Country squire arrives at the Pearly Gates and is welcomed by St Peter. "I won't be much trouble", he says, "if you could just find me a nice stretch of river with a few trout in, that'd do me nicely. Fishing's the only the thing I've ever really cared about, don't y'know". "Ah", says St.Peter, "come with me, I think we have the very thing for you", and he leads him through the gates and at length they arrive at an idyllic river scene, with soft grassy banks, beautiful trees for shade, set in glorious rolling countryside. "This is perfect!" exclaims the squire. "Glad you like it", says St Peter, and hands him the most exquisite rod he's ever seen. The squire handles it admiringly, feels the free-running reel, the perfect balance of weight and elasticity, and prepares to cast. The moment his line hits the water, a magnificent specimen of trout takes the bait, and after a few minutes of playing him, the squire reels him in to his landing net. "Fabulous!", he thinks, and prepares to cast again. Once again, no sooner has he cast his line than another huge trout is caught on the hook. Again, he carefully reels in his catch. "Well I never!", he says to himself, "I've never had a day like this in all my life!". His third cast and fourth cast are met with further instantaneous successes, and when his fifth cast has the same result he feels just a trace of annoyance. After a dozen catches, he is starting to get a bit fed up. He turns to St Peter and says, "look, old chap, if it's all the same to you, I think I'll try a bit further along, and see what it's like there". "I'm sorry", replies St Peter, "I'm afraid you have to stay here until you've caught them all". "Oh hell" says the squire. "That's right" says St Peter. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 . . . . and perfect example of why variety is the spice of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 I do it because it matters to me. When it becomes about money or popularity, it does not meet the needs I have. It is for its own sake and the music is its own reward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1367420322' post='2065426'] . . . . and perfect example of why variety is the spice of life. [/quote] And why making a video as well as a song isn't a waste of a day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 [quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1367398036' post='2064999'] Reminds me of a story I heard years ago (possibly by PG Woodhouse???) Apologies if I get some of the fishing terminology wrong. Country squire arrives at the Pearly Gates and is welcomed by St Peter. "I won't be much trouble", he says, "if you could just find me a nice stretch of river with a few trout in, that'd do me nicely. Fishing's the only the thing I've ever really cared about, don't y'know". "Ah", says St.Peter, "come with me, I think we have the very thing for you", and he leads him through the gates and at length they arrive at an idyllic river scene, with soft grassy banks, beautiful trees for shade, set in glorious rolling countryside. "This is perfect!" exclaims the squire. "Glad you like it", says St Peter, and hands him the most exquisite rod he's ever seen. The squire handles it admiringly, feels the free-running reel, the perfect balance of weight and elasticity, and prepares to cast. The moment his line hits the water, a magnificent specimen of trout takes the bait, and after a few minutes of playing him, the squire reels him in to his landing net. "Fabulous!", he thinks, and prepares to cast again. Once again, no sooner has he cast his line than another huge trout is caught on the hook. Again, he carefully reels in his catch. "Well I never!", he says to himself, "I've never had a day like this in all my life!". His third cast and fourth cast are met with further instantaneous successes, and when his fifth cast has the same result he feels just a trace of annoyance. After a dozen catches, he is starting to get a bit fed up. He turns to St Peter and says, "look, old chap, if it's all the same to you, I think I'll try a bit further along, and see what it's like there". "I'm sorry", replies St Peter, "I'm afraid you have to stay here until you've caught them all". "Oh hell" says the squire. "That's right" says St Peter. [/quote] "Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after" [i]Henry David Thoreau[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiltyG565 Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1367421747' post='2065448'] "Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after" [i][s]Henry David[/s] Louis Theroux[/i] [/quote] I fixed it for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 Indeed. There's more to fishing than catching fish. [i] "I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful, and hate the environs where crowds of people are found, which are invariably ugly; because of all the television commercials, cocktail parties, and assorted social posturing I thus escape; because in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing things they hate, my fishing is at once and endless source of delight and a small act of rebellion; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and patience; because I suspect that men are going along this way for the last time and I don't want to waste the trip; because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there; because maybe one day I will catch a mermaid; and, finally, not because I regard fishing as being so terribly important but because I suspect that so many of the other concerns of men are equally unimportant--and not nearly so much fun."[/i] Robert Traver (1903-1991) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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