Starting a band from scratch. Long, sorry...

[Telebass]

I've decided that the only way I'm going to gig as much as I would wish is to do the whole thing from the ground up myself.
Plainly, the first and most daunting task is to find like-minded musicians who want to do this as much as I do and as often as I do. Given that, here's a stream-of-consciousness band spec. This is not gospel as such, but a cloud-nine ideal. Can I ask some of you to read it, bearing in mind that I know this is a wish-list and probably not real-world?

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Band/s – an[b] ideal[/b] overview…

Please read right through!
The band will be a four-piece, ie 2x guitar/drums/bass or vocals/guitar/drums/bass.
All band members should fit in to the following scenario:

Firstly, and [b]most importantly[/b], I would like this to be an ego-free zone where the band members have fun, and earn a reasonable income doing so. But secondly, it will be a successful business which will provide us with that reasonable income. It follows that the earnings will be declarable.

[b]Transport[/b]
Have your own reliable transport always available. This DOES NOT mean a reliable lift. No car, no need for you to apply….The reasoning here is that if we all have good wheels, if and when someone suffers a breakdown, there’s enough slack in the system to be able to fit everyone in and get to the gig.

[b]Equipment[/b]
Your own reliable equipment that is suitable for this band. Examples: the Guitarist/s must have a suitable amp, preferably no more that 50W. Marshall full stack NOT acceptable. Ideally, 15 to 30W and mike up.

Vocalist and backing vocalists will have their own microphone and stand, minimum spec Shure SM57 or similar, and a good XLR cable, 10m.

Additionally, a standalone frontperson (ie not an instrumentalist) will have a PA system suitable for the task. Why? It’s the amplifier for your instrument, dummy…Not exceeding 600W/side, and not complex. There’s no need for racks of kit. Any venue that needs kilowatts will have their own, or we’ll charge them for the hire of one.

The drummist must have a kit that takes no more than 40 minutes to set up, and their own set of microphones, should such be required, preferably with a sub-mixer.

[b]Commitment[/b]
This band will aim to reach a minimum gigging level of 100 gigs/year. If you only want to gig once a week, it’s not for you. I would like it to be able to do short-notice gigs any day of the week, should such arise. This will make it difficult if you are in full-time work. Consider it carefully. Given what I am asking, membership of other bands/projects is likely a no-no. And rehearsing has to fit in here somewhere also! This ‘exclusivity’ bit is something I myself hate to be asked for, but given what I’m aiming at, I can’t see a way round it…

Anyone who has childcare issues or is a shift worker is probably not going to be suitable. For example, if you’re a single parent with 7 kids, then no matter your childcare backup, you’re unsuitable by definition. (Experience speaking here, folks…).

If there is enough response but not enough time commitment, I will consider two bands: basically, one for Fridays, and an as near as dammit identical setup for Saturdays. Hopefully this will give enough flexibility to cover gigs at other times, should we be so lucky!

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I fully understand that there is an element of pie-in-the-sky here, but only an element. Surely there are people out there who do this beyond the hobby stage? If so, where are you?

Yours, in hope,
Den

[fretmeister]

Sounds like you are wanting employees rather than band mates.

2 gigs a week (+ rehearsals) is impossible for a great many people.

The PA is only the singers equipment if you are not going to mic up anything else. As soon as other persons vocals and instruments go into it, it is the entire band's equipment.

And I have to say, if someone wanted a say in my equipment beyond it being suitable for the task - they can f*** off.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1367317409' post='2064013']

I fully understand that there is an element of pie-in-the-sky here, but only an element.
[/quote]

Den, I'd just like to congratulate you on your mastery of the exaggerated under-statement (I seem to remember it's called [i][b]litotes[/b][/i]).

No harm in wishing for the moon. Just don't hold your breath.

[RockfordStone]

i assume this is for a covers band doing functions?
if you are doing originals most likely you will be using a house pa.

also worth noting, as you have said the guitar amps need to be small and miced, the PA is not the sole responsibility of the singer if like you have... if everyone is using the PA surely its a joint thing to consider.

also by telling guitarists they can only have small amps, you are going to be pushing potential people away. most guitarists i know at a good level have at least an amp and 2x12 set up, others 4x12's.. if the gear does the job, and they can transport it and know how to use it, then size isn't the issue.. its a bit axl rose to say what they can't and can use.

agree with the transport one, ive had so much issue with people and transport

just by 2 pence

[fretmeister]

Also - if it is to be a "Successful business" then you need to decide whether it is a partnership - in which case all members get a say.
Or whether it is your business and you are the boss and the others are your employees. In which case I would want MU minimum wage at least for all gigs, rehearsals, travel and any other time working (at home learning the tunes for example).

I have to say - does not sound fun to me. And if it's not fun, then the pay needs to be good.

[Lozz196]

The only thing I see as being awkward is the mention of "I would like it to be able to do short-notice gigs any day of the week, should such arise. This will make it difficult if you are in full-time work".

People who aren`t in full-time work may well find it difficult to commit to plenty of gigs/rehearsals due to lack of money. Additionally, they may not have transport due to not being in work.

Other than that, I think it`s a good plan.

[KevB]

Unless I missed it I didn't spot any indication of the type/genre of music you are expecting to do. One of the first things I look for in potential projects is what kind of stuff would I be expected to play. If nothing else it helps me weed out the ones that are doing music I have no interest in.

[SpaceChick]

Sorry Telebass but I think you are wanting the Moon on a Stick!

I know you have said its your Pie in the Sky ideal. However, whilst I can appreciate the level of detail you have put into the information, I think it would out several people off.

If you want to start a successful project, I'd recommend you rein in your expectations and chat to people when they respond to a less intimadating advert.

To be honest, I think your equipment demands should be secondary to your primary aim of finding like minded musicians with your commitment and playing aspirations, so I'd focus on that and worry about equipment afterwards.

Good luck!

[Earbrass]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1367318091' post='2064027']
Sounds like you are wanting employees rather than band mates.
[/quote]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1367319232' post='2064052']
I have to say - does not sound fun to me. And if it's not fun, then the pay needs to be good.
[/quote]

This. An ego-free zone in which everyone else has to conform to your precise requirements?....hmmm can't see a problem there

[Dropzone]

My tuppence is, not many singers own a PA that can take a full micing of every instrument. If something blows on the PA who is paying for the repair? You should also state what type of music or songs and how much you realistically expect to get per gig and the distance you are willing to travel to get 100 gigs per year to allow people to decisde if it is for them. I think this is too much as most gigs are weekends and this would book up every weekend, which would make gigging a chore.

I would recommend you break it down into essential requirements and preferred requirements to give you a chance of getting a decent amount to pick from rather than having only a small number apply. Another option could be to define what success looks like for you (which you have pretty well defined) and then say if your vision of success looks anything like this then contact you. I would use woolier terms like sensible, reasonable, practigable etc.

From my experiance for pub gigs the back line does provide some of the volume that then allows for a smaller PA. There is also the dicussion between 50W valve and 50W transistor ;-)

Good luck.

[Dave Vader]

2 gigs a week and no full-time job. They better be very nice paying gigs.
I can see all your points Den, I just think you may have to drop a few of them to get answers.
I would have gone for the ad, except that I don't want to work that much anymore, and don't like exclusivity clauses.
10 years ago though, like a shot (and with a fake sticker on my guitar amp claiming it's only 15 watts)

[Telebass]

Like I said, it's a wish-list overview, not an ad.
All your comments are useful.
I do actually have a PA, for example. But so many vocalists, so-called, do not even own a microphone. No vocalist worth his salt (at this level) doesn't have a mic. It's like expecting to borrow a bass every time you gigged...As to rest of the kit: the reason I mentioned big amps is that I'm tired of playing the band volume up to meet the 'I've got to crank it to sound good' merchants. That very thing cost me a slice of my hearing...at only 50W.

Some people would find short notice stuff impossible. Indeed! So don't apply...If it sounds like I'm aiming at being full-time pro, then yes. Why not? I fail to see why there aren't more that aspire to the same, even if the goal is never quite reached.

If need be, I would run it as an employer, but I'd prefer not.

I did omit the genre. Yes, covers etc.
But as I said, I'm not about to actually present this to the band member world as-is!
I just find it hard that, among so many musicians, so very very few appear to think enough of themselves to really give it a go. . It may sound naive, but I just don't understand that.

Many thanks for the comments, it all helps. I've never done it all from my end before, not in over 40 years...

[danthevan]

Good luck is all I can say

[Count Bassy]

Your spec makes you sound like a bit of a control freak which might put off lots of people who otherwise meet your requirements (It would certainly put me off). As someone said already, you want no egos and then proceed to dictate what kit others are going to use.

If you were going to use this as the basis of an ad then I would mellow it down quite a lot, get some people together and then talk about your ideas.

[PaulWarning]

one of the most important things I've found is that you all like the same sort of music, if people aren't enjoying what they're playing they ain't going to hang around for long, and there's no mention of what standard you're looking for.
I personally wouldn't dream of joining a band with what appears to be a total control freak in charge, sorry, but that's the way it comes across

[xgsjx]

I don't think there's anything wrong with what you're asking other than not giving a genre.
You're looking to play professionally, so asking for your ideals & seeing what comes back is the best way to go.
You don't want some of the muppet "singers" that I've had apply. The sort whom's previous experience involves the shower & their only equipment is a hairbrush, moan about me not wanting to play what they want (despite the ad saying Acid Jazz & no Indie) & then having a voice no better than mine (& I sound crap).

I would say that for the vocalist, if they can sing but don't have the equipment then they must be willing to buy a good mic. Just get them to send you a recording first before wasting your time.

[Telebass]

As I keep repeating, this wasn't the wording for any sort of ad, and although i value every comment, few seem to have read it in the spirit in which it was intended. Basically, I was asking what does one do when starting from scratch?

While sitting in the sun over lunch (that was a bit of a novelty after all this bad weather), I thought of another thread to this. If I were to go the tribute route, then I could be a bit more picky, and everyone would surely understand that this would mean a fair bit of commitment.

Ah, maybe I'm a dreamer. Trouble is I seem to be the only one!

[Zenitram]

I'm idly curious about the money side of it. How much declarable income would you like/hope/expect to make out of those hundred gigs a year?

[PaulWarning]

so you're after 4 blokes with roughly the same tastes and abilities with no other commitments and no full time jobs?

[fretmeister]

It's all a bit moot until you find a drummer you like.

[Telebass]

Put it this way - if i were doing 100 gigs a year with my present band, that would be around 8-9k. As my only income, it might not attract much tax, but for someone with a day job, I imagine there would be some tax payable, assuming expenses wouldn't cover it.

"so you're after 4 blokes with roughly the same tastes and abilities with no other commitments and no full time jobs?" No, because it wasn't an ad, just an idea!
I do realise that if I put out an ad worded like that, I'd probably get bombs in the post...and deserve them!

I just thought that putting the ideas in my head down would be a better start point than "What do I do to start a band, then?"

[Zenitram]

It's all about the beat, isn't it. And the vocals.

[Zenitram]

And tits. You need tits. Or legs.

[xgsjx]

Here's what my first ad said...


[quote]
Now forming a band & I'm looking for a Keys player, Drums, Guitar & Vocals & any other musicians that fit the Funk/Acid Jazz/Breakbeat genre.

A bit about me...
Started life as a keys player & learned several other instruments over the years. Took up bass some 20+ years ago & played lots of rock, blues & folk.
Would like to do more jazz/electronica/drum n bass/breakbeat/house type stuff & I'm now looking to join or start a band.
Vast range of influences & happy to play almost anything, whether it be jazz, funk, rock, blues, soul, house, reggae, drum n' bass, swing, electronica, folk or something else.
Not so keen to play thrash, deathcore, country, indie or punk. Nothing wrong with those genres, just not what I'm looking to play.
I do a fair amount of writing, but not much in the way of lyrics (the one thing I can't do is sing).
[/quote]



Several months on & I've got all but a keys player. But we're jamming & hopefully soon we'll start writing (I think I'm gonna be the only one writing, so it's a good job I can play the other instruments too).

[Dave Vader]

As a wish list it's good.
I have a wish list of a bunch of guys, probably enough for 2 and a half bands, all knowing the same set, and claiming to be the same band (mostly deppy types) who can throw a line-up together on short notice, not have to turn up if they don't fancy it and still keep a full schedule without upsetting anyone.
Preferably all multi-instrumentalists, so that switching is easy, and all able to sing well enough to cover pubby things.
That way commitment isn't an issue, and the whole thing is relaxed and nice.

It will never happen though.