Starting a band from scratch. Long, sorry...

[peteb]

[quote name='polyrythmmm' timestamp='1367934592' post='2071171']


Firstly the car thing. Many of us Londoners have cars, that's why there are so many cars in London. admittedly there is a fairly high amount of commuter traffic but that doesn;t explain the 24/7 vastness of traffic in London. AND we get to 'steer' clear of the rush hours it's actually kind of fun driving in London after Gig down time. I play in bands in London and somtimes I'm the only bloke with wheels, is this frustrating? YES because no-one else is equipped to accomplish ANYTHING. They can't even move around. I have solved the over-reliance issue by moving from VW hatch-back to a proper old time mini "Sorry guys only room for me and my rig, and even that is creatively packed". The bands in London who can at least get there are by far the more promising 'gig wise' too, but in those cases, invariably, I'm the only one without a permanent day job. It's rare to find everything rolled into one batch of folks so yeah I guess, ask for everything.

That's all in support of the wishlist & dream-building, but now.. Telebass. You ought to be be really nice and accommodating.. Build the plan call it a pro gig, build it and they will come. But recognise that you too have a bruisable-ego.. Your responses are as defensive as those who felt attacked, so I think you had better accept that with ego comes the will to succeed. Strip away the ego and you strip away the ambition. (generally speaking) I like to think many of us have the social skills to balance the two, but just leave it out entirely from the wishlist. If you mention it, it probably means it's a problem, and if it's a problem, it's your problem.

In general though YES take the essential matters into your own hands, and build the gig (job done) amp power, ego's these are not gig issues these are your issues. If a guy who you have offerred the gig to on the grounds that he's perfect seems to turn up with a stupid looking stack to a jazz covers club gig well you have to make the call should you have allowed this guy into the band if the answer is yes even with his rig the rig stays until you can convince him it's silly. if the answer is no then why did you choose him?.. you know. distill it all distill it to the essential gig concerns and go to work end of.
[/quote]
Excellent post!

[onemanband]

[quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1367317409' post='2064013']
============================================================================

Additionally, a standalone frontperson (ie not an instrumentalist) will have a PA system suitable for the task. Why? It’s the amplifier for your instrument,[i][u][b] dummy[/b][/u][/i]…Not exceeding 600W/side, and not complex.
[/quote]


Assuming anyone is a "dummy" won't endear you to many would be applicants anyway matey.
Try doing solo gigs, I think that's possibly your best bet!!

Edited May 10, 2013 by onemanband

[skankdelvar]

Dummies?

When it comes to bands, the only safe way to proceed is to assume [i]everyone[/i] is a dummy (or a flake, a drama queen or a deluded fantasist) until proven otherwise. And even then, people can [i]seem [/i]quite normal for 6-12 months, then they suddenly say they can't do a gig because it's near an abbatoir and they became a vegetarian just last week.

As for singists, I remember one guy showing up for a jam / audition with an 'armoured' mic cable. I remarked upon this novelty.

'It has to be armoured, I'm a very energetic performer' says he.

Have you got your own PA?

'No'

What mic do you use?

'I borrow one from my mate. Dunno what it is. It's plastic.'

But you've got your very own, personal armoured mic cable?

'Oh yes'.

Dummy.

Edited May 10, 2013 by skankdelvar

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1368210686' post='2074592']
Dummies?

When it comes to bands, the only safe way to proceed is to assume [i]everyone[/i] is a dummy (or a flake, a drama queen or a deluded fantasist) until proven otherwise. And even then, people can [i]seem [/i]quite normal for 6-12 months, then they suddenly say they can't do a gig because it's near an abbatoir and they became a vegetarian just last week.

As for singists, I remember one guy showing up for a jam / audition with an 'armoured' mic cable. I remarked upon this novelty.

'It has to be armoured, I'm a very energetic performer' says he.

Have you got your own PA?

'No'

What mic do you use?

'I borrow one from my mate. Dunno what it is. It's plastic.'

But you've got your very own, personal armoured mic cable?

'Oh yes'.

Dummy.
[/quote]

... Why do singers think that's alright? To not have a mic, and a backup mic, incase, oh I dunno, one breaks? Why was it more important to him to have an heavy duty lead than to have a mic at all!? HE'S A SINGER! The mic and the lead are literally the only things he needs! Even then, he still wouldn't spend as much as the drummer, guitarist or bassist on gear. Pretty sure you can get a decent vocal mic for a couple hundred. Honestly.

[skankdelvar]

2 week old SM58 [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/203873-shure-sm58-brand-new/page__p__2056576__hl__shure__fromsearch__1#entry2056576"]here[/url] - £70.00

Low-end Sennheisers are reputed to be good, too, though I wouldn't know, myself. To be fair, I've worked with any number of vocalists who owned decent gear - good PA's, back-up mics, cables, radio packs. Strangely, none were dummies although a couple of them [i]were [/i]terrible old drunks.

[xgsjx]

You could even get an AKG D5 for less & they're a pretty good live vocal mic (though they're about £90 if you want it with an On/Off switch).

[Telebass]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1368095692' post='2073057']


This thread has got me going. I'm looking to start a band from scratch but I fear I won't be able to because I'm punctual and organised. For example, I attempted to meet up with a singer for coffee recently. After waiting for an hour, I left. We tried twice more and she was late each time. "I don't do late", I said and I was told off for being inflexible and unrealistic when dealing with musicians. I might as well give up forming a band right now then.
[/quote]
That would have had me foaming at the mouth...

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1368095692' post='2073057']
This thread has got me going. I'm looking to start a band from scratch but I fear I won't be able to because I'm punctual and organised. For example, I attempted to meet up with a singer for coffee recently. After waiting for an hour, I left. We tried twice more and she was late each time. "I don't do late", I said and I was told off for being inflexible and unrealistic when dealing with musicians. I might as well give up forming a band right now then.
[/quote]
The message from that singer is: Your time has so little value to me that it is fine for me to waste it. If she will not accept the error in her thinking, you need to ditch her (but I hope you have already!)

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='solo4652' timestamp='1368095692' post='2073057']
This thread has got me going. I'm looking to start a band from scratch but I fear I won't be able to because I'm punctual and organised. For example, I attempted to meet up with a singer for coffee recently. After waiting for an hour, I left. We tried twice more and she was late each time. "I don't do late", I said and I was told off for being inflexible and unrealistic when dealing with musicians. I might as well give up forming a band right now then.
[/quote]

Yeah, because you aren't a musician, are you? So how would you know what it's like dealing with musicians, considering you don't have any musical ability. What an absolute wab that "musician" is, and I wouldn't even give them the time of day. In my eyes, if somebody keeps me waiting for an hour without a good reason (and that means an emergency or unavoidable circumstance) then they aren't worth my time.

[spacey]

When you get older, you learn to put a few ground rules down that cut out a lot of later grief.
The first one been if a member does not want to gig are they and the rest of the band going to use a dep or turn the gig down out of loyalty.
If the answer is turn the gig down you know the band will never get out of the trap and round the course as it is saddled to the slowest laziest member.

Sure your band may gig, but the chances offered on the way to increase the bands appetite will be squandered.

[TimR]

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1368274239' post='2075177']
...
if a member does not want to gig are they and the rest of the band going to use a dep or turn the gig down out of loyalty.
...
[/quote]

Personally, if a band member doesn't WANT to gig, he shouldn't be in that band.

The only ground rule is that everyone wants to gig at the same frequency. And if that frequency changes each member has a duty to discuss it with the others.

[discreet]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1368300236' post='2075521']
...if a band member doesn't WANT to gig, he shouldn't be in that band.
[/quote]

That's just what I thought! I've wasted far too much time with people who (as it turned out) were not the slightest bit interested in gigging. They just like to buy gear, talk about gear, treat rehearsals as a social occasion, and that's it. Which would have been totally fine by me had they told me this [i]before [/i]I joined the band and not spent months pretending to want to do gigs and making lots of excuses for why they couldn't.

Which is why I now try to find out everyone's intentions and ambitions [i]before [/i]proceeding, in the hope of weeding out the apparently endless stream of wannabees, timewasters, tossers, divas, narcissists, delusional bell ends. pimps, nonces and assholes!*

*Delete as applicable.

Edited May 11, 2013 by discreet

[Telebass]

^^^^
And this was indeed what prompted the thread in the first place. Although it was and is a wish list, how else do you formulate what you want/expect?

[TimR]

It's just something you learn from experience.

If the band spend longer discussing what should be in the set list that when/where the next gig is going to be you know you're onto a loser.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1368301413' post='2075543']
^^^^
And this was indeed what prompted the thread in the first place. Although it was and is a wish list, how else do you formulate what you want/expect?
[/quote]

By talking.

tbh a lot of the practical stuff can be got around if the will is there. It's surprising how practical stuff can get in the way if the will is not there.

[Telebass]

The idea was to avoid extraneous talking by getting some stuff clear in my mind first.

[steve-bbb]

you could always try 'not planning'

with all the criteria and variables listed in all the previous posts you could always just go random and see what happens - if somebody inappropriate shows up just be firm and polite and let them go

you might even get lucky and spend less time and effort and hence get rehearsing and gigging sooner than you would have done with all the deliberation and procrastination

Edited May 12, 2013 by steve-bbb

[Truckstop]

Hang on guys, I really don't see an issue here!

I would love to be in a band where one person is in full control. If you're gigging 100+ times a year, that'd be a really good earner and for that sort of money I think some level of professionalism is required. I play songs I hate all the time because in getting paid for it! If I was playing 100+ gigs a year without personally having to worry about booking them, I'd do whatever the band leader wanted me to do. If he wants me to use a BC Rich Warlock and a 15w Stagg practice amp, I'd bloody do it as a matter of professionalism.

To be honest, I don't think I've ever heard of a pro-level guitarist that didn't have a great sounding small amp, or a pro-level vocalist without their own microphone or PA! Or a drummer without his own mics!

What sort of ramshackle lot do you all play for?

I would say though that if Telebass wanted this sort of control over his band, it may be worth considering buying your own PA, drum mics, etc etc and taking a bigger cut of the purse.

All the bands I work for at the moment have this exact set-up. The bandleader decides everything, gets all the gigs, provides the PA and decides the set and the band just turn up and play. No arguments!

Good luck with it Telebass, I think you've got a plan for success here!

Alex

[4 Strings]

[quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1368340933' post='2075768']
The idea was to avoid extraneous talking by getting some stuff clear in my mind first.
[/quote]

Fair enough, that's a good idea. I was meaning finding out about the potential other members.

Unsympathetic partners, jobs which become tricky are all barriers to harmonic forward motion.

[AndyTravis]

I'm really in the same boat in some resepects.

Been gigging since I was 13, i'm 28 now, I left a moderately successful band (Festivals, mini tours, management deal, regular 300 capicity venue sell outs) to concentrate on home life, my daughter and Stepson, a wedding (this August) and a house move.

I went to the singers wedding yesterday and the band were all there, including the lad who took over from me (a nice guy, incidentally) and I realised that I miss the feeling of 'bandmates', we really were a tight unit, and I left with their understanding and support rather than under a cloud.

I'm repeatedly told what a shame it is i'm not gigging, and how people would love to see me on a stage again - I'm without a giggable rig at this moment in time, as my 1000w stack was sold off a good 18 months ago.

I'm missing it, i'm itching...and without blowing my own trumpet I could walk into the vast majority of bands, and musical styles without issue.

But i'd like it to be something I can enjoy, and that doesn't always come with joining an established act.

I'd hate to join something where there is a big ego, any inter-band issue, or the bass player was the guitarists brother in law or best mate from school and to be constantly reminded that i'm the outsider.

I know bucketloads of musicians, really good, talented guys. And I could start something.

After 18 months off though, i'm finding it hard to motivate myself - Especially as my previous band had people to look after most of the small stuff i'd have to face if starting on my own.

I think the points made by the OP just hit the nail on the head - It's an 'Ideal World' scenario.

I always thought 'Amazing drummer with a converted barn/recording studio' would be on my ideal list.

Edited May 12, 2013 by AndyTravis

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1368353313' post='2075915']
Hang on guys, I really don't see an issue here!

I would love to be in a band where one person is in control.

...

All the bands I work for at the moment have this exact set-up. The bandleader decides everything, gets all the gigs, provides the PA and decides the set and the band just turn up and play. No arguments!
[/quote]

That's how I run my band.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1368392739' post='2076601']
That's how I run my band.
[/quote]

Yep - same here.

[TimR]

[quote name='AndyTravis' timestamp='1368390496' post='2076554']


...

I'd hate to join something where there is a big ego, any inter-band issue, or the bass player was the guitarists brother in law or best mate from school and to be constantly reminded that i'm the outsider.

I know bucketloads of musicians, really good, talented guys. And I could start something.

After 18 months off though, i'm finding it hard to motivate myself - Especially as my previous band had people to look after most of the small stuff i'd have to face if starting on my own.
...
[/quote]

You just need to make the leap.

I just joined a great bunch of guys. Their last bass player kind of lost motivation and dragged them all down with him. He left and I joined. They've said they're enjoying it again for the first time in ages and the gigs are lining up.

It's fun.

[discreet]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1368394811' post='2076641']
It's fun.
[/quote]

That's when you know it's working. If it's [i]not [/i]fun, something is very wrong.

[Telebass]

Precisely! Although I rely on the income, I want to enjoy it too.
I have an audition coming up as John McVie in another forming FM tribute, so maybe won't need to follow this through after all. Added to the other band, and amazingly it looks like they will dovetail quite nicely, should work out well.