That crab technique again...

[fatback]

I posted about this before, so apologies.

I'm trying to get the crab technique sorted for thumb position going down scalewise and in sequences. Any good vids out there? For that matter, any good vids on thumb position playing?

I bought Rabbath's wildly overpriced Art of the Left Hand, but no real explanation of the crab technique (s) or thumb position playing in general. Disappointing all round in terms of instruction value, although inspirational as always from the great man (media critique on request )

Ed Friedland's DVD takes a grid approach to TP, but that seems too rigid to me; locking down the transition points from TP to normal and from grid to grid. (Rabbath plays TP all the way to the nut. )

I suppose what i'm looking for is something that gives the best chance of fluidity up in the nether regions, rather than rigid grids, and something that allows real confidence in intonation and doesn't involve compulsory slides (which is where the crab should come in).

Am I right that material on TP in general is pretty thin? Is that because everybody has their own technique?

I didn't go to all that trouble getting a beautiful thumb callous in order to quit now. So any help hugely appreciated.

Edited April 30, 2013 by fatback

[fatgoogle]

No Rabbath teachers near you? I have no idea what the crab technique is but i just practiced TP like i practiced every other position, slow and steady with as many different fingerings and movements as i could work out/manage/be arsed to do. Now im nearly finished the 1st movement of bottesini's concerto no2.

Not much help, but just imagine the fluidity that you have in lower positions but use your thumb. Also take all the exercises you already have and move them up an octave as well as your scales. Also Harmonics are your friends while shifting.

Ill try and remember better how i got around thumb position.

EDIT: Theres simandl book 2(never used it) and the hrabe studies which go straight up there and back down and up again straight away.

Edited April 30, 2013 by fatgoogle

[thisnameistaken]

I would really like some guidance on thumb position too. I'm pretty happy with my intonation everywhere else these days so I keep buggering off up there to see how I get along, and I seem to do OK until I have to move up higher, say moving my thumb up to C on the G and then it all goes pear shaped.

I don't get many excuses to practise that stuff though so I suppose I just need to make a note to do it.

[Mr Bassman]

There are one or two [url="http://www.chappellofbondstreet.co.uk/P~COBS000032787~Melodic-Playing-In-The-Thumb-Position"]books[/url] on the subject

[MandShef]

The Simandl Method Book 2 covers thumb position. Not very pleasant exercises, so only to do in small doses, but good for getting it stuck in your head/muscle memory. Also, do scales up in thumb position. I've done a quick search on Google, and there seem to be quite a few you tube vids on the subject (not checked them out though, so can't vouch for how useful they are). Good luck, and if you discover some useful books/vids let us know - like you say, there doesn't seem to be much material on the subject.

[fatback]

Thanks for all your thoughts. It's not really exercises I'm missing, it's a sensible method for fingerings and thinking through the pathways. For example, some people seem to work by using mainly the harmonics positions for the thumb. Others use every note as a thumb position. Some methods rely on sliding, even when a slide isn't called for.

The crab business is supposed to eliminate sliding and, because at least one finger is always playing a note, it anchors the other fingers while they look for the next note. So no guesswork for intonation. I think that's the idea anyhow. It's easy-ish going up the board, but coming back down is hit and miss for me.

I don't have any problems crossing strings inside one thumb position; it's getting up and down a single string accurately, shifting the thumb, that I'm after.

I don't want to carry on just muddling my way through. As for a Rabbath teacher, if only. I'm in a pretty remote spot here, so any teaching is hard to organise.

[quote name='Mr Bassman' timestamp='1367360183' post='2064807']
There are one or two [url="http://www.chappellofbondstreet.co.uk/P~COBS000032787~Melodic-Playing-In-The-Thumb-Position"]books[/url] on the subject
[/quote]

Thanks for that. I'm a fan of Micheal Moore, so i'll give that one a shot.

Edited May 1, 2013 by fatback

[fatgoogle]

Would it be worth taking a day trip to Dublin. I cant think of any rabbath teachers, but Dominic Dudley, Joe Csibi or Waldemhar(Sp?) are all in the symphony orchestra and could all give you some good basics to get going.

[fatback]

[quote name='fatgoogle' timestamp='1367404283' post='2065121']
Would it be worth taking a day trip to Dublin. I cant think of any rabbath teachers, but Dominic Dudley, Joe Csibi or Waldemhar(Sp?) are all in the symphony orchestra and could all give you some good basics to get going.
[/quote]

I might well do that. There are a couple of good teachers within two hours of here, but very restricted availability time-wise.

I am fascinated by that rabbath technique though; it seems so logical (if only I could work out what the logic actually was. )
Absolute tragedy that nobody has presented his method in any systematic way. This Hans Sturm series on youtube is as good as it gets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54pMdTCmo8g

As I said, Art of the Left Hand' is a missed opportunity.

I've ordered the Micheal Moore 'Melodic Playing in the Thumb Position' as recommended by Mr Bassman, so looking forward to that.

The joke is, I have absolutely no need for thumb position in music i play, so why am i persecuting myself? Then again, what's the point of double bass if it's not torture.

Fifty shades of...?

[ubassman]

Have you ordered the Michael Moore yet? (if not I can lend you my copy). He uses the concept of identifying a target note for navigation, good backing tracks to play along to ...but you need to be able to read in treble clef.

[Basstroker]

Hi! - Some nice little songs for beginners in the thumb positions, also using the thumb in lower positions (free and legal download from the webpage of the BASS 2012 in Copenhagen): [url="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/30291372/carl_nielsen_pdf.pdf"]https://dl.dropboxus...nielsen_pdf.pdf[/url] - I also got the Michael Moore and the Francesco Petracchi but I like Ludwig Streicher "My Way of Playing the DB Vol. IV" best for learning the thumb positions. - For first steps with the crab technique I recommend "Progressive Repertoire for the DB Vol. II" by George Vance; the included CD is performed by Rabbath himself. - Best, Thomas

Edited May 5, 2013 by Basstroker

[fatback]

Thanks for the suggestions.

@ubassman, I did order the Moore, pity about the treble clef; I've enough confusion to deal with.

@basstoker, That Nielsen will be useful. I'll try and get hold of the Streicher. Does the Vance Vol2 explicitly explain crab and give proposed fingering patterns etc? I found Vance vol 1 wasn't much use without a teacher; there's almost no explanation at all. Exercises, basically, and a shoddy product altogether.

[FLoydElgar]

Go see Tim Gibbs or Caroline Emery... dey will explain it all....

[ubassman]

Here's Tim 15 years ago when he was in young musician of the year - not bad playing I suppose ...for a youngster ! ( the Bottesini at the end...makes me feel like my efforts on the DB are the musical equivalent of playing 'Twinkle Twinkle LIttle Star' ! )

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGrkoYQy_pg[/media]

Edited May 6, 2013 by ubassman

[fatback]

Wow, great vid. Need a higher framerate just to keep up with his left hand. A blur.

[thisnameistaken]

Wha... Happen?