Do you have your own personaity on the bass.?

[Clarky]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1368639420' post='2079624']
That could be me, except I'm not sure what a goatwhore is.
[/quote]
Fail on my part. Was trying to quote our dearly departed Anti-loco (or whatever his name was) who accused those without the highest artistic integrity of being clownwhores. Not sure where the goat came from? But I bet discreet would have a theory there ...

[julietgreen]

It's got to be my own personality because I'm just not good enough to make a faithful replication of anyone else.

[Painy]

I think expresion in music obviously makes a big difference. My dad (an extremely accomplished classically trained musician) would often comment on the tendency for a lot of Japanese musicians to be technically flawless and very precise but he found their playing to be somewhat 'souless' and to his ears somehow less musical. Now this is of course a rather sweaping generalisation of musicians of one particular nationality but I do see how he felt about music played that way. For some reason music creates an emotional response in our brains which is why we enjoy it but this looses somethin in translation if every note is played in a mechanical fashion. For me the danger of simply playing something note for note is that it is very difficult to recreate faithfully the phrasing and feel fingerprint of the original player and you can then end up playing with almost no expression at all. I would much rather play with the feel that comes to me naturally and still create expressive music, albeit a different feel, than with no feeling at all.
Of course as for whether the average punter will notice the difference in the music they may not but I know I'll be able to tell myself and 18 years / 1000+ gigs of playing covers has certainly taught me that the crowd respond more if you appear to be enjoying yourself and believe in what you do!
Of course thats me and my opinion - boring if we all thought the same way!

[ambient]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1368641056' post='2079654']
There's every point to it if the person doing it personally finds it fulfilling.
There are plenty of musicians out there who would be doing what they do whether they had an audience or not - they are driven to create music that means something to them first & foremost.

I'm talking about writing original music here - obviously the criteria will be different if you're playing covers in a tribute band, doing wedding gigs or whatever as in that context you are doing it solely for the entertainment of other people.
[/quote]

Not at all. I play anything I'm asked in any style that I'm asked, I've done country and western gigs in front of 60 year old guys dressed in cowboy suits with cap guns in holsters at their side. I listed to the CD's I was given first and tried to capture the essence of what was being played. Regardless of the fact I don't actually like C and W music, and I thought the guys in the audience were actually slightly strange, I just enjoyed the playing, I live to play and create music.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1368643319' post='2079704']
Fail on my part. Was trying to quote our dearly departed Anti-loco (or whatever his name was) who accused those without the highest artistic integrity of being clownwhores. Not sure where the goat came from? But I bet discreet would have a theory there ...
[/quote]

[xilddx]

[quote name='Painy' timestamp='1368648941' post='2079852']
I think expresion in music obviously makes a big difference. My dad (an extremely accomplished classically trained musician) would often comment on the tendency for a lot of Japanese musicians to be technically flawless and very precise but he found their playing to be somewhat 'souless' and to his ears somehow less musical. Now this is of course a rather sweaping generalisation of musicians of one particular nationality but I do see how he felt about music played that way. For some reason music creates an emotional response in our brains which is why we enjoy it but this looses somethin in translation if every note is played in a mechanical fashion. For me the danger of simply playing something note for note is that it is very difficult to recreate faithfully the phrasing and feel fingerprint of the original player and you can then end up playing with almost no expression at all. I would much rather play with the feel that comes to me naturally and still create expressive music, albeit a different feel, than with no feeling at all.
Of course as for whether the average punter will notice the difference in the music they may not but I know I'll be able to tell myself and 18 years / 1000+ gigs of playing covers has certainly taught me that the crowd respond more if you appear to be enjoying yourself and believe in what you do!
Of course thats me and my opinion - boring if we all thought the same way!
[/quote]
That sounds spot on to me mate. Great post.

[peteb]

Personally I always think as a musician develops and starts to feel at ease on an instrument, they tend to find their own feel, phrasing and tone that defines them as a player. I think this is much more apparent in players of tenor instruments as they tend to be soloists and the range of their instrument is closer to that of the human voice.

As far as what notes you actually play - whether you copy a bassline note for note, put your own spin on it or play something completely different - surely that should be determined by what the song is and in what context you are playing it in...

[lurksalot]

Great post PAINY , I think it difficult to pick up personality from a recording , competence maybe , but personality is surely something you get from a person . Individuals show their personality when they play , it maybe one of total concentration, smiling joviality , closed eyed groove , head banging dizziness or even a BigREDX , so we all show our personality when we play , and if we are doing a show , then our personality may even be hidden by our 'persona'. It is an odd concept to me , I am who I am , but if I am playing someone else , then that is who I am trying to be . But as I do mainly covers , I entertain , and if my onstage personality fits the band, the image and the material , the notes I play do not really convey my personality.

[JTUK]

I don't think personality means that at all... it has nothing to do with the wellbeing or somesuch of the player,
it is how they approach a line they are going to play.

They may have a specific groove or touch on everything they play... it defines them and it is pretty much what gets them the work.
Some players have this in spades...and Pino P is a case in point when he became known. He was stylistically defined..and in a good way...
everyone wanted what he did... but what some people get hired for is less apparent...but basically they get work for what they
can bring to the party...and the people who want a servive/player either buy into it or they don't.
This is why requests for session work is so funny... at a certain level of competance, everyone can play notes in a certain order
it is that litte extra that makes the difference.
When you go from one good player to another... the basics are covered..hopefully.. but you are getting another spin.
This is why Band leaders of all kinds change round the band as it is a way to breathe new life or get a new spin on the
same old back catalogue they they will be required to play.

The classic story of Steely Dan rotating their bands wasn't so much an A band and a B band... it was the chemistry of the unit that worked
and ended up on the track. You may have had a few players on triple A scale and some on a lesser fee ... but that alone wasn't
enough to define what worked when..

They could all play..and some.. but they were looking for that little extra.. for whereever they could get it.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1368709536' post='2080459']

The classic story of Steely Dan rotating their bands wasn't so much an A band and a B band... it was the chemistry of the unit that worked
and ended up on the track. You may have had a few players on triple A scale and some on a lesser fee ... but that alone wasn't
enough to define what worked when..

They could all play..and some.. but they were looking for that little extra.. for whereever they could get it.
[/quote]

Zappa's various line-ups is another example of this - although even this defies logic as he seemingly insisted on keeping an extremley talented bass player who's ego was bigger than the rest of the band put together and somebody as shrewd as FZ must have realised it was a car crash waiting to happen

[xilddx]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1368711232' post='2080497']
Zappa's various line-ups is another example of this - although even this defies logic as he seemingly insisted on keeping an extremley talented bass player who's ego was bigger than the rest of the band put together and somebody as shrewd as FZ must have realised it was a car crash waiting to happen
[/quote]

Wrong mate

[Conan]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1368711389' post='2080504']
Wrong mate
[/quote]

Wrong how? I thought that was a pretty accurate evaluation of the Scott Thunes situation? What else do you know?

[xilddx]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1368712513' post='2080521']
Wrong how? I thought that was a pretty accurate evaluation of the Scott Thunes situation? What else do you know?
[/quote]

Zappa said Thunes had a difficult personality, refuses to be cordial and not interested in small talk. Zappa loved what he brought to the band and it was Thunes' arrangements of the Ravel and Bartok pieces that made it to the tour and on he two 88 band realeases. He was made clonemeister after Arthur Barrow and had a hard time with most of the band, Kenneally being the exception. Zappa has said before that Ed Mann and Chad Wackerman were the ringleaders and most of the the rest of the band joined them in making things difficult for Thunes, who didn't help himself either by reacting badly to it. In the end Zappa asked the band if they would tour with Thunes and they refused to. So zappa wound the band up because he could not afford the time and cash to rehearse another bassist - remember the had about 80 pieces of highly complex music to learn and play, that takes a LONG time to learn. He cancelled remaining dates and lost about $400,000. Later, the rest of the band were falling over themselves to apologise to Frank. And something in particular really wound Zappa up - one of the horns kept moaning Thunes never gave him enough support on his solos, but Zappa played the tapes to him later and he said "Oh he sounds good man!", Zappa said in an interview that that sort of sh*t makes him sick.

Ed Mann has made up with Thunes fairly recently, Wackerman remains silent about the whole affair.

If you are fascinated enough, read Andrew Greenaway's 'Zappa The Hard Way', a book about the 1988 tour and tons of interviews with the band including Thunes (but not Wackerman), and Electric Don Quixote by Neil Slaven has a few chapters in it.

To hear Thunes' view of events, read 'Interviews with Really Scary Musicians' by Thomas Wictor. Search Requiem for a Heavyweight on google and you'll find a cut version of Wictor's full interview published in Bass Player. EDIT: Here you go .. [url="http://www.cidanka.nl/keneally/stbp0397.htm"]http://www.cidanka.nl/keneally/stbp0397.htm[/url]

Also, Mike (urb on here) interviewed him a couple of years ago for BGM, but there's not much about the 88 tour n that, great interview though

Edited May 16, 2013 by xilddx

[charic]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1368653202' post='2079947']

[/quote]

I'm trying to work out how to pronounce GQATWHQRE now... any tips? It keep coming out GCKUATWHUCKRE in my head

[peteb]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1368714742' post='2080577']
Ed Mann has made up with Thunes fairly recently, Wackerman remains silent about the whole affair.

If you are fascinated enough, read Andrew Greenaway's 'Zappa The Hard Way', a book about the 1988 tour and tons of interviews with the band including Thunes (but not Wackerman), and Electric Don Quixote by Neil Slaven has a few chapters in it.

[/quote]
Scott Thunes rears his head round these parts yet again!

Actually, I would be quite interested to hear Wackerman's views on ST and the demise of the Zappa band. Have you read Bryan Beller's account of his dealings with Thunes after Dwezil replaced him with BB (on his old website)? Well worth a read if you can find it - Beller is trying to be nice about Thunes, but he still comes across as a complete sociopath...!

[xilddx]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1368721356' post='2080724']
Scott Thunes rears his head round these parts yet again!

Actually, I would be quite interested to hear Wackerman's views on ST and the demise of the Zappa band. Have you read Bryan Beller's account of his dealings with Thunes after Dwezil replaced him with BB (on his old website)? Well worth a read if you can find it - Beller is trying to be nice about Thunes, but he still comes across as a complete sociopath...!
[/quote]

Yeah I read that, Josh Freese and Thunes got on really well, then Joe Travers came in and acted like a rock star on stage, chucking sticks in the audience and stuff (I have one actually ) which Thunes didn't like AT ALL. He didn't get on with Travers at all. According to Thunes, Dweezil basically told him he needed nice people in the band so they could get on and share rooms on tour because of budget, so he fired Thunes and got Beller in who was Travers' mate from Uni. Meanwhile Dweez continued to travel everywhere first class. I find Dweez a bit of a dick really, he says all the other Zappa bands with other ex band members, and the tribute acts are putting their own spin on his dad's music and disrespecting his memory, whereas ZPZ faithfully reproduces it. I wonder what Frank would say about that since he enjoyed bastardising doo wop and blues so much and rearranging Bartok and Stravinsky etc. Dweez was a miserable sod when I met him too which doesn't help

Edited May 16, 2013 by xilddx

[EssentialTension]

[b]Interview with poet John Cooper Clarke[/b]

[quote]
[b]What's the best advice anyone ever gave you?[/b]
'Find a poet whose style you like, emulate that style, then deal with things that you know about – [u][i][b]don't waste your time looking for your own style[/b][/i][/u].' I wish I could remember who told me that, because I'd like to congraulate him. I've emulated all the old guys – Tennyson, Alexander Pope.[/quote] [url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/may/21/john-cooper-clarke-poet-portrait?"]http://www.guardian....-poet-portrait?[/url]

[Colonel36]

I love McCartney...but I also love this -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKNX2DjWC94