How do you memorise songs (assuming you have already "worked it out") ?

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='dlloyd' timestamp='1368541712' post='2078234']
Transcribing and learning are one and the same.
[/quote]

I think that depends on the individual. I can work out most rock pop songs in 10-15 mins to a reasonable degree of accuracy but I would usually need a fair amount of additional work to get it up to a gig-able standard, but then I'm relatively good at the listening/analysing side and not so good at rote memorisation.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1368535934' post='2078101']
Muscle memory for me, so i'm not sure which category that would fall under. If i start thinking about the notes on stage, that's when i mess up.

Liam
[/quote]

This is why I'm trying to move to learning the tune/melody as my main way of internalising a song as muscle memory is very fickle. Imagine if someone gave you a week to learn a simple tune and told you that they would give you a million pounds for a perfect recital (you only get one attempt) - would you learn to sing it or would you learn to play it on an instrument ?.

[Skol303]

If I'm learning a cover then I tend to work things out mostly by ear - using notation (if I'm feeling studious) or tabs ( if I'm feeling lazy) to suss any tricky bits.

I then learn the song note for note via repetition. This is simply because I'm not skilled enough to improvise things on the fly based on chord structures, etc... but that's something I aspire to and am working towards. Slowly

I do tend to improvise much more in my own music, but in that context I'm not following in anyone's footsteps (finger steps? Whatever) and it feels like there's more scope to play around.

Credit to those of you who mostly improvise all the time. I'm looking forward to when I can take off my 'stabilizers' and do the same.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Skol303

[Dad3353]

So, to answer the question ...
[quote]How do you memorise songs (assuming you have already "worked it out") ?[/quote]
...once it's been worked out (various methods, but that's not the question...), I can 'hear' the line (and quite a bit more...), and so just play what I 'hear'. This assumes that no improvising is involved, in which case I would just play what I 'imagine' instead. I suppose 'muscle memory' is in there somewhere, in that I 'know' how to finger any note (or rather, sound...).
This applies to bass, but equally guitar and (more importantly, for me...) drums. To me, this is the very essence of having a song 'worked out'. If I can't do it by 'hearing' it, I've not yet worked on it long enough, or by the right method.
Just my tuppence-worth...

[Dr.Dave]

I learn a song's arangement and chord structure then just stick to rolling my own. I have enough on learnig lyrics without worrying about playing my lines the same every night - how boring is that !

[JapanAxe]

Shape of song
Main bits
Variations on main bits
Other bits eg start end and stops

NB different technique for words!

[xgsjx]

It varies. I'll learn the original song & how the original bassline goes, but then I change as much as I can.
This could be from simply listening to the song, reading the score from a book, learning the chord sequence, watching someone on youchoob or just from the song being a standard progression & knowing where it goes.
I learn the scale & melody & then make my own stuff up.

[thumperbob 2002]

For me this depends upon the song-If its a standard I just tend to follow the real book until I internalise it. Most songs are very similar if you know the type of song it is- blues- Autumn Leaves 2-5-1- Rhythm Changes etc. I am still learning to internalise these so end up playing the best Jazz I can find in the car, and when I walk the dog. This is my passion at the mo`

However I play in a soul band so would never try to play a Jamerson song without knowing each particular note- ( well as near as I can get it ) Try to get really everything note for note- this is the sign of a good covers band. To get to this i end up taking ages to learn the most simple song and therefore can internalise as I go. Would be much easier the other way but I like to do this as well I can.

[julietgreen]

I'm still new at it and so commit to memory by a combination of patterns and 'singing' the bass line. I know if I can't hear myself play I'm much more likely to make mistakes. I also know that if I can't hear the rest of the band, particularly the vocalist, I can forget what I'm doing, so the direction of the music must have a major impact.

[4 Strings]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1368534999' post='2078081']
If I have to learn a pre-existing song - take song into Audacity, bass boost it, then chuck it up an octave. Bass line (an octave higher) verily pings out at you. Learn it up there, then take it back down on the bass.
[/quote]

Thanks, going to try that! On average I'm learning around a song week so anything to help work them out is welcome.

For the poll I've chosen the 'muscle memory' option but really I just play the song over and over on headphones whenever I can and play along to it as often as I can in the time. Long process, but there are rarely short cuts, even if getting good at it shortens the time required.

[niceguyhomer]

I learn most songs playing along on Youtube or Guitar Pro. When I can play a song six times on the trot without making a mistake I know it's there for good. Once I learn a song this way I rarely make mistakes. I also ad-lib to maintain interest.

[gafbass02]

Listen, play, fine tune/tweak
Practice practice, muscle memory, muscle memory.
Fine tune/tweak more
Practice
And repeat

Edited May 16, 2013 by gafbass02

[seashell]

A combination of muscle memory and humming the bassline in my head.
Also, if I can't remember a rhythm I will sometimes put some daft words to it like 'sausage-and-tomato' and that helps.
For example, whilst learning 'Gigantic' by the Pixies recently the words that kept going through my head were 'and [b]one [/b]motor boat, and [b]one [/b]motor boat'.
No idea why thos words occurred to me, but it helped me stick to the rhythm.

Sorry, I don't think I've explained that too well!

[Phil Starr]

Different processes for different challenges but the first thing is to hammer the song into my skull. I put it on the iPod and listen to it over and over again in the car/kitchen/headphones until I've got the shape of it. Whilst i am doing this I'll look up the chords (yeah I'm lazy) which are usually, but not always, more accurate than the tabs. Strum through the chords to check and if it sounds OK over to the bass, By this stage I've learned the chord changes and the bass line just kind of grows around that usually. At this point we'l be trying out the song as a band so the bass line won't be settled until we get a settled arrangement. After a few weeks the whole thing becomes automatic and the chords get forgotten, a bit like driving in an area you know well and can't actually remember how you got home.

[dougal]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1368534999' post='2078081']
If I have to learn a pre-existing song - take song into Audacity, bass boost it, then chuck it up an octave. Bass line (an octave higher) verily pings out at you. Learn it up there, then take it back down on the bass.
[/quote]

This. Only using "Amazing Slow Downer" on the Mac. And the occasional Tab site for pointers.

As for the structure / where I am in the song: it's all instinct and playing along however many times. Other members of the band use notes & read them, which isn't a bad thing, per se, but I think it interrupts the performance if you're tied to a stand.

And I think once you've started reading, it's very difficult to go to remembering.

Plus, actually, who cares if you occasionally throw an extra chorus where there isn't one / play the bridge twice? Provided you're all on top of it and can communicate through glances, smirks, grimaces and [i]ALWAYS FOLLOW THE VOCAL[/i], you're golden.

Edited May 18, 2013 by dougal

[WalMan]

In a thread resurrection this has been bouncing around the cavity my brain is supposed to be housed in recently rying to get a s***load of songs under my fingers for tonights dep.

Variously I have used:[list]
[*]Initially finding mp3's of the tracks to play along to
[*]for anything thats a bit more fiddly try to find the dots (if available) and work with them
[*]play along to the MP3's
[*]slow down twiddly bits (the bridge in Cee Lo's Forget You?) in Xgear to about 80%(ish) and play along to that speeding up as I get comfortable
[*]have a loop of MP3's on a memory stick in the car & listen to them on the way too & from work visualising the neck & positions
[*]generally wander round in a semi daze humming basslines (possibly internally but I fear I [i]may[/i] be the loonie on the bus & be a bit more vocal) and again visualising the neck and wiggling my fretting fingers
[*]for a few I also sat and charted out the chord / root from memory (not the actual line, just the gist)
[/list]
That seems to have got them to sink in over the last week. Time & tonight will tell!! Lots of looking & listening to what's going on around me & toes crossed (my fingers will hopefully be hitting the right notes!)

Edit - so in terms of the vote that'll be all of them

Edited July 27, 2013 by WalMan

[BottomE]

Done so many covers over the years that a lot of the time i can visualise the chord changes. Play the track on stereo whilst driving and then just imagine where the next chord is.

Add to this that if you have a starting key, the minor/major stuff works itself out by just knowing a tiny bit of theory.

Some songs are just weird but you get a sense from listening to them and do a bit of a run through alongside YouTube to get it.

Works most of the time but have been caught out on occasion. Then i find its best just to stare at the keyboard player and pretend that its their fault.

[TimR]

Not sure how I missed this first time round.

There's lots of different things in my armoury.

The first thing I do is learn the tune in my head. What the bass line riffs sound like during The various sections. What the intervals sound like for the chord progressions. Any tricky bits like 2 beat bars. I take on board what all the other instruments and vocals are doing so I know why the bass line is how it is (more of that later).

Once I've committed the song to memory by listening to it in my car etc then I'll pick up my bass. By then I've got a really good idea and using years of practice (instinct?) I'll usually play it pretty much straight away depending on difficulty level.

Then if there are bits that I struggle on I'll practice only those sections until they're right.

The time spent playing the bass along to the tune is actually very short in a lot of cases.

I'll usually play along to mp3s of the whole setlist on the afternoon of a gig.

As the band get together to play a tune I've found they and I don't always learn everything note perfectly, usually for a whole host of musical reasons. This is why it's important to understand what everyone else should be playing and be able to adapt what you play to fit what they're actually playing. Without getting into arguments or treading all over the instrument or vocal parts

[TimR]

As a musician the most important skill is to learn to listen and grow good or 'big' ears.

[WalMan]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1374960405' post='2155348']
As a musician the most important skill is to learn to listen and grow good or 'big' ears.
[/quote] Well quite. It's what I relied on for tonights dep, 2/3 of which we hadn't done at the run through session last week so it was watching, listening & knowing nods
[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1374945879' post='2155129']
Done so many covers over the years that a lot of the time i can visualise the chord changes. Play the track on stereo whilst driving and then just imagine where the next chord is.

Add to this that if you have a starting key, the minor/major stuff works itself out by just knowing a tiny bit of theory.

Some songs are just weird but you get a sense from listening to them and do a bit of a run through alongside YouTube to get it.

Works most of the time but have been caught out on occasion. Then i find its best just to stare at the keyboard player and pretend that its their fault.
[/quote] Yup playing stuff I've never heard before in the car & I can often visualise changes. Things like the G D E type progression on the guitar (3 2 0 on the neck) just jump out at you

[cloudburst]

[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1374966365' post='2155396']
Things like the G [b]D[/b] E type progression on the guitar (3 [b]2[/b] 0 on the neck) just jump out at you
[/quote]
Huh?

CB

[WalMan]

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1374966557' post='2155399']
Huh?

CB
[/quote]I mean on the guitar, open G at the third fret, D with th shape around the second fret and open E or Emin

Edited July 27, 2013 by WalMan

[TimR]

"How do you memorise songs assuming you have already worked it out?"

Re-reading the question, I think that working it out is the major part of learning it. The songs just go straight into my memory. Others just need repetition. The main challenge I find is remembering the order of sections in the trickier/longer or very easy/short tunes.

"Wish you were here" was a bit of a nightmare. Very few chords 4, with 16 bars per section? Then verses and choruses sometimes doubled, sometimes not.

[iceonaboy]

Play it over and over again. That is the only way to remember something. Muscle memory is how you learn instruments after all

[cloudburst]

[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1374967239' post='2155408']
I mean on the guitar, open G at the third fret, D with th shape around the second fret and open E or Emin


[/quote]
Ah okay. Thx. You had me a bit confused with all this guitar heresy.

CB