Unplugged tone

[Jono Bolton]

I don't know if the thread title is technically correct, but my P Bass sounds excellent when I don't have it plugged in to the amp, it's loud, resonant and with nice focused lows. So what does this mean? I've heard a lot of people talking about the importance of a bass's accoustic tone, but why is it important? Surely any EQ on the amp would factor against it? Or perhaps I'm missing something?

[Mr. Foxen]

Means the bass is worth putting nice transparent pickups in it. And eq on the amp is the enemy of good tone, basically, its there to compensate from problems, to 'equalise' them to the ideal of flat response to the right sound. Bass is step one of your signal path from your fingers, getting it right there means all you need to focus on is not messing it up with everything else.

[White Cloud]

Whenever I try a new bass I always play it unplugged first and pay particular attention to the natural tone and response of the instrument. Try 3 or 4 of the same models of bass side by side unplugged and you will hear/feel the difference.

Anyone who knows me will tell you that I am not a technical guy so I wont even try to be expansive in the scientific rationale for this....but it is what it is; its the foundation of the instruments sound.

[Fat Rich]

In my experience a bass that sounds rubbish acoustically rarely sounds great plugged in whatever you do to it, whereas a bass that sounds great acoustically usually sounds good plugged in or can be made to sound good with some tweaks.

Tweaking the EQ can accentuate the good parts of the tone if the basic sound is there, but if it sounds dire there's only so much you can do to fix the sound.

Plus there's a load of subconscious feelings you get from a good resonant bass that are missing from a dull lifeless one that make it more enjoyable to play.

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1368565079' post='2078731']
In my experience a bass that sounds rubbish acoustically rarely sounds great plugged in whatever you do to it, whereas a bass that sounds great acoustically usually sounds good plugged in or can be made to sound good with some tweaks.

Tweaking the EQ can accentuate the good parts of the tone if the basic sound is there, but if it sounds dire there's only so much you can do to fix the sound.

Plus there's a load of subconscious feelings you get from a good resonant bass that are missing from a dull lifeless one that make it more enjoyable to play.
[/quote]

This. You can't polish a turd, only roll it in glitter ;-)

[iiipopes]

What kind of P-bass is it? And before you go changing pickups, has it been set up properly with a new set of strings? Sometimes lowering the pickup segments even as little as one-half screw turn clockwise will back the magnets off the strings enough to restore clarity.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1368552633' post='2078490']
Means the bass is worth putting nice transparent pickups in it. And eq on the amp is the enemy of good tone, basically, its there to compensate from problems, to 'equalise' them to the ideal of flat response to the right sound. Bass is step one of your signal path from your fingers, getting it right there means all you need to focus on is not messing it up with everything else.
[/quote]

But what is a transparent pickup? It seems like a pretty illusive thing.

[Conan]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1368691386' post='2080140']
But what is a transparent pickup? It seems like a pretty illusive thing.
[/quote]

A pickup that does not introduce its own character to the sound. Although I would have thought that most pickups do this, as the acoustic sound is very different to the transduced and amplified sound. To test this, try holding a microphone up to a vibrating bass string. Is that really the sound that you would want?

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1368693168' post='2080159']
A pickup that does not introduce its own character to the sound. Although I would have thought that most pickups do this, as the acoustic sound is very different to the transduced and amplified sound. To test this, try holding a microphone up to a vibrating bass string. Is that really the sound that you would want?
[/quote]

That's my point. I've never actually heard of a truly transparent pickup.

[Conan]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1368693447' post='2080167']
That's my point. I've never actually heard of a truly transparent pickup.
[/quote]

Some are more 'transparent' than others, but I agree. Then again I am no expert!

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1368693904' post='2080173']
Some are more 'transparent' than others, but I agree. Then again I am no expert!
[/quote]

Somebody in the know will likely educate us both soon, but I don't think a full transparent transducer really exists in any forms in music, but then, i'm far from an expert too.

[dincz]

I can't see how any electromagnetic pickup could be transparent as the inductance of the coil will drastically affect frequency response. Maybe an optical pickup would get you close. Something like this:

http://lightwave-systems.com/technology/

[mickster]

Hmmmm, think we're sailing close to the realm of audiophile-bollox here; the notion that a really really good pickup will transmit the 'pure' and 'uncoloured' tone of the wood/strings to the amplifier etc etc. Ditto the thought that using tone controls further interferes with the 'purity'/whatever of the original signal. Most of the tone wood debates i've read usually seem to end up headed in this direction, predicated on strange ideas of aural 'purity' & cleanliness. Anal-retentiveness applied to acoustics

It's an electric bass fer gawdsake - a thing that needs to make snarly / thuddy noises in a band, not a sensitive transducer of the sound of gossamer angel-wings...embrace the dirt & skronk!!

[Mr. Foxen]

A transducer is an electrical device, and electrical devices are never perfect. You choose your parameters, and specify a device accordingly. If you play a B on your bass, and a B comes out your speaker, there's a goodly degree of transparency. From there, you have a wide variety of finer divisions thereof.

Edit: Should be noted a speaker is also a transducer. As is the microphone mentioned in the previous example.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Mr. Foxen

[Lozz196]

Unplugged tone - I had, very briefly, a 2008 Precision that had been stripped of the poly finish. Had the best unplugged tone from any bass I`ve ever had. And I stoopidly sold it. Still keep thinking about PMing the person I sold it to and trying to get it back.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1368703605' post='2080327']
A transducer is an electrical device, and electrical devices are never perfect. You choose your parameters, and specify a device accordingly. If you play a B on your bass, and a B comes out your speaker, there's a goodly degree of transparency. From there, you have a wide variety of finer divisions thereof.

Edit: Should be noted a speaker is also a transducer. As is the microphone mentioned in the previous example.
[/quote]

Yes, that is why I then used the term transducer. Microphones can be as colouring as pickups and amps.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Jono Bolton' timestamp='1368552203' post='2078479']
I don't know if the thread title is technically correct, but my P Bass sounds excellent when I don't have it plugged in to the amp, it's loud, resonant and with nice focused lows. So what does this mean? I've heard a lot of people talking about the importance of a bass's accoustic tone, but why is it important? Surely any EQ on the amp would factor against it? Or perhaps I'm missing something?
[/quote]

I don't think it is important.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1368709233' post='2080446']
I don't think it is important.
[/quote]

Why? (just generally curious as to why you think that, not questioning your reasoning).

[neepheid]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1368710786' post='2080486']
Why? (just generally curious as to why you think that, not questioning your reasoning).
[/quote]

If the resonance of the wooden or other substrate(s) that the ends of the strings are anchored to/vibrating off comprises more than 10% of the final sound coming out of an electromagnetic pickup mounted to said substrate(s), which principally works by a magnetic field being disturbed by metal strings vibrating through it then I'd be very surprised (and I think I'm being generous). Without a definitive means of measuring whatever influence the wood may or may not have on the final output of an electric bass then it's ripe for distortion through personal opinion and subjectivity. I'm not saying definitively that there is no effect, because I can't but no-one so far has definitively proven to me there is an effect, let alone tried to quantify it.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1368712532' post='2080522']
If the resonance of the wooden or other substrate(s) that the ends of the strings are anchored to/vibrating off comprises more than 10% of the final sound coming out of an electromagnetic pickup mounted to said substrate(s), which principally works by a magnetic field being disturbed by metal strings vibrating through it then I'd be very surprised (and I think I'm being generous). Without a definitive means of measuring whatever influence the wood may or may not have on the final output of an electric bass then it's ripe for distortion through personal opinion and subjectivity. I'm not saying definitively that there is no effect, because I can't but no-one so far has definitively proven to me there is an effect, let alone tried to quantify it.
[/quote]

I couldn't agree more!

[Mr. Foxen]

Same deal, if your singer's voice sounds bad, you can fix it with the right choice of mic.

[BigRedX]

Who cares what a bass sounds like unplugged. It's designed to be plugged into an amp. What it sounds like then is what counts.

[Adrenochrome]

In my experience ([i]not[/i] of high end basses), the tone of a solid electric bass when amplified usually is quite different to the acoustic tone and it doesn't always follow that good unplugged equals good amplified, or thin sounding acoustically equals thin/weak when amplified. However the way the note blooms, decays and other things to do with resonance and general feel [i]do[/i] seem very similar unplugged and amplified.

[MiltyG565]

I agree. I'm a pretty strong believer that the electronics and the strings have much more impact of the amplified sound than anything else.

[Jono Bolton]

[quote name='Adrenochrome' timestamp='1368777652' post='2081274']
In my experience ([i]not[/i] of high end basses), the tone of a solid electric bass when amplified usually is quite different to the acoustic tone and it doesn't always follow that good unplugged equals good amplified, or thin sounding acoustically equals thin/weak when amplified. However the way the note blooms, decays and other things to do with resonance and general feel [i]do[/i] seem very similar unplugged and amplified.
[/quote]

This was my thinking, the bass has a nice sound when it's not plugged in, but whatever I do with it in terms of EQ or the pickups installed (a Wizard Thumper at the minute) could completely counteract the natural tone of the bass. In all honesty, I've only really notice the acoustic tone since I stuck on a set of 50- 110s a few months back.