PAT Certificates?

[Donnyboy]

We've been asked for a copy of our PAT certificates for a gig next weekend. Never been asked before & we play mostly in pubs . Probably a good idea but we don't have any such thing.

Is this something pub bands should have?

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='Donnyboy' timestamp='1368873225' post='2082473']
We've been asked for a copy of our PAT certificates for a gig next weekend. Never been asked before & we play mostly in pubs . Probably a good idea but we don't have any such thing.

Is this something pub bands should have?
[/quote]

Yes, and even more so for well organised festivals and functions. Typically an electrician will come and PAT test ten items for around £40, so it's easy to swallow as a band.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1368873575' post='2082480']
Yes, and even more so for well organised festivals and functions. Typically an electrician will come and PAT test ten items for around £40, so it's easy to swallow as a band.
[/quote]

I could do that, just patting the gear. *pat pat* "Good job, gear".

[BassBus]

Not that I would ever advise working a way round something official like a Portable Appliance Test but have a look [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1311.R2.TR10.TRC0&_nkw=pat+test+labels&_sacat=0&_from=R40"]here[/url]. [size=4] [/size]

[Stacker]

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1368874129' post='2082494']
Not that I would ever advise working a way round something official like a Portable Appliance Test but have a look [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p3984.m570.l1311.R2.TR10.TRC0&_nkw=pat+test+labels&_sacat=0&_from=R40"]here[/url].
[/quote]
Some of those sellers are prepared to print initials and pass/next test dates on the labels??

LAbels aren't enough, anyway; they're only a brief visual record that the item has supposedly passed a test. Anyone wanting further clarification will ask for the full certificates and data dumped from the testing unit.

[Roland Rock]

Is "PAT Testing" a redundancy, in that the "test" part is already within the acronym?

[pietruszka]

We have our gear pat tested, and pubs have never asked for a certificate but it's best to have it just in case. Even if its not your profession, it doesn't stop you being professional. And it's a safe guard along with PLI.
I had mine done free by the electrician at Draeger


Dan

[oggiesnr]

I dump all our leads and lights at a local electrician once a year and they charge £1.50 an item. Need the certificate about three times a year.

If you fake it and something were to go wrong then you would be well and truly stuffed (as in criminal fraud if someone got really angsty)

Steve

[arthurhenry]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1368875864' post='2082528']
Is "PAT Testing" a redundancy, in that the "test" part is already within the acronym?
[/quote]
Yes, you need either a PAT or a PA Test.

[pietruszka]

[quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1368877534' post='2082552']
Yes, you need either a PAT or a PA Test.
[/quote]
1, 2. 1, 2. Testing, 1, 2.

[Donnyboy]

Thanks everyone I'm on the case, hopefully!

[grandad]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1368875864' post='2082528']
Is "PAT Testing" a redundancy, in that the "test" part is already within the acronym?
[/quote]
[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1368875864' post='2082528']
Is "PAT Testing" a redundancy, in that the "test" part is already within the acronym?
[/quote]

Yes you're right but the common usage is "PAT testing". The certificate can be 1 page listing all items + test results.

I could recount numerous horror stories whilst PAT testing. Mains extension leads were the worst culprit. It is a must in Law & I reckon it's saved many lives since it's introduction. About £2 an item I reckon is fair.

Regards, C

P.S. I also carry an RCD adapter with me though most WMC's have them built into the 13A stage sockets nowadays.

Edited May 18, 2013 by grandad

[Leonard Smalls]

You should ask the pub if you can see a copy of their electrical installation condition report, and ask if they have it done at the recommended 3 yearly interval...

[flyfisher]

Won't be long before we need a certificate of competence to operate a bass rig. After all, how can anyone be sure we won't crank up the amp and deafen someone? Never mind the psychological damage caused by crap playing.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1368883467' post='2082626']
You should ask the pub if you can see a copy of their electrical installation condition report, and ask if they have it done at the recommended 3 yearly interval...
[/quote]
This answer comes up every time someone asks about pat certs, if the venue has either buildings insurance or a local authority entertainments licence it almost certainly will, sure the guys on here acting the big shot because the Saturday night girl didn't know if the venue did or not sound cool on here but in reality why would the staff know? The electricians will have carried out the tests for the owner (not tenant) so the boss of the venue might not even know about it, you will still look a Dick when they produce it one day

[bertbass]

Been asked for a risk assessment as well at one gig.

[flyfisher]

I'd reply that if they needed a risk assessment then it all sounds too risky to bother doing the gig in the first place.

[Leonard Smalls]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1368887319' post='2082700']
This answer comes up every time someone asks about pat certs, i[b]f the venue has either buildings insurance or a local authority entertainments licence it almost certainly will, s[/b]ure the guys on here acting the big shot because the Saturday night girl didn't know if the venue did or not sound cool on here but in reality why would the staff know? The electricians will have carried out the tests for the owner (not tenant) so the boss of the venue might not even know about it, you will still look a Dick when they produce it one day
[/quote]

Not necessarily! I did one about 6 years ago for my local music pub and he was so appalled at how much it cost (£300) that he hasn't had one done since, nor have his insurance or local authority asked for one.
For the record, it took 4 x 4 hour mornings as it involves virtually taking the consumer unit apart (he had 3!), testing every circuit fully, and inspecting the connections in at least 30% of fittings, more if you find problems - which I did...
However, if he has a fault that causes injury or a fire his insurance might be interested in why no recent periodic inspection, as it used to be called, had been done.
It's also recommended that domestic properties have one done every 10 years - how many folks do that?

[stingrayPete1977]

No need to tell me mate

[stingrayPete1977]

Lots of people drive drunk, uninsured, with bald tyres etc its all good until it goes wrong. If you are in a pro band then you could ask for the venues certs etc, I'm sure big shows must have people who have to get documents signed to say the venue will be safe for their acts and the acts fans. If you are asking for the right reasons that's cool if you are doing it to be a pedant or because you have failed to provide what the venue asked you to bring on the night be prepared to either not play or look a cock when the venue produces a copy of all their certs.

[pietruszka]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1368889111' post='2082721']
I'd reply that if they needed a risk assessment then it all sounds too risky to bother doing the gig in the first place.
[/quote]
It's standard practice at a lot of big venues. I've done one before for a wedding we did at the Hancock Museum in Newcastle, it's really a formality so the venue can turn round and say that all eventualities have been considered, and you've taken the measures necessary to avoid accidents. It's no different to solicitors writing letters, and they write a lot! As long as it's down on paper, people are covered in a worst case scenario.



Dan

[flyfisher]

Fair points and, of course, difficult to argue against in absolute terms. But where does all this creeping regulation and safety-consciousness stop?

We're supposedly living in a free society but we are bound by an increasing number of rules and regulations and seem to need permission to do almost everything, so much so that we now have a tendency to automatically assume we need 'official' permission for stuff. Very sad but seemingly inevitable because these things creep up on us all gradually and people don't notice.

[pietruszka]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1368960375' post='2083354']
Fair points and, of course, difficult to argue against in absolute terms. But where does all this creeping regulation and safety-consciousness stop?

We're supposedly living in a free society but we are bound by an increasing number of rules and regulations and seem to need permission to do almost everything, so much so that we now have a tendency to automatically assume we need 'official' permission for stuff. Very sad but seemingly inevitable because these things creep up on us all gradually and people don't notice.
[/quote]
Yeah, I suppose it can get to that point, but only time will tell. I reckon I'll start turning down work when a venue asks for proof of purchase for our gear!




Dan