Writing a "Rock Opera"

[JamesBass]

So having started reading a biography on Albert Einstein, specifically Albert Einstein: His Life and Universe by Walter Isaacson, I decided or was rather enlightened once more by the notion of creating "Order from chaos" Now I know this all isn't very Rock'n'Roll but hear me out, the ability to think about things simply, clearly and imaginatively helped Albert Einstein rewrite physics, it is this and my love for Rock music, specifically The Who, that has once more encouraged me to take on the monumental task of composing and arranging a Rock Opera, I'm aiming to have this fully done within 5 years, I know conservative time scale but a realistic one. My tastes in music are forever developing, so is my understanding of life and the universe, for these reasons I think 5 years from start to finish will give me the best results!


This might seem rather random and like I'm probably on some very good stuff, however being 19 and a budding pro, I thought why not start on what I hope will be my masterpiece! Plus there is some right tosh on Eurovision tonight and even more so in the charts!



So here goes!

[spinynorman]

Well, good luck. I'm sure you know that you're following a path littered with failure. In fact, I can only think of one commercial success, which is "Tommy". And you could argue about how successful that really is as an opera, but we can give it the benefit of the doubt.

Ultimately opera is theatre and the plot needs to work as theatre independently of the music. But, because the music is so dominant, you have to paint the plot with broad strokes - big, dramatic highs and lows in relationships, deep tragedy, glorious resolution.

I don't know why it's so difficult to do with rock music, but I suspect it has something to do with the dominance of the instrumentalist. You can't put Jimi Hendrix in the orchestra pit, and if you find someone who will stay in the pit, it's not rock, or not great rock anyway.

So you've set yourself a hard project and I really hope you can find a way to make it work.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1368913802' post='2083067']
Well, good luck. I'm sure you know that you're following a path littered with failure. In fact, I can only think of one commercial success, which is "Tommy". And you could argue about how successful that really is as an opera, but we can give it the benefit of the doubt.
[/quote]

Would Quadrophenia not qualify as a commercial success?

Also, a lot of theatre productions are pretty much 'rock operas' in the sense of being a story told in song. JC Superstar would be a good example.

But I agree it's a tough genre in which to make a mark so best of luck to the OP!

[lurksalot]

Good luck , I hope it works out , I guess my claim to fame may well be being post #4 in its conception

[BigRedX]

Before you start anything go and listen to "SF Sorrow" by The Pretty Things which is the daddy of all Rock Operas and the inspiration for Tommy.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1368920023' post='2083128']..."SF Sorrow" by The Pretty Things...[/quote]

+1

Ah, yes. Twink. Unforgettable (...[i]but then again, I'm old[/i]...).

[RhysP]

Not exactly a "Rock" opera, but check out "Einstein on the Beach" by Phillip Glass.

[JamesBass]

Cheers for the support, I'm taking it slow and steady, as strange as it may sound, I sometimes can hear music when I completely zone out and I want to recreate this, I can hear and visualise how the track will work, the huge dynamics involved will challenge me to record this, I want this to become something that is both amazing on a CD or live. My current worry with the track is that I won't be able to find good enough musicians for a while, my bands drummer is awesome, however I just feel he wouldn't cope with this track just due to the initial few tracks, well how I intend them to sound anyway!

I hope I'll keep updating this and letting you all know how it goes!

[flyfisher]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1368920023' post='2083128']
Before you start anything go and listen to "SF Sorrow" by The Pretty Things which is the daddy of all Rock Operas and the inspiration for Tommy.
[/quote]

I was going to mention SF Sorrow (I still have my vinyl copy) but didn't because I think of it more as a concept album that wasn't actually turned into a rock opera as such, i.e. a stage or film production (unless I missed it).

But you're right about it being very influential.

[BigRedX]

They performed it live at the Abbey Road studios in 1998 with Arthur Brown doing the narration and guest guitar from Dave Gilmour. Apparently this was the only time it's ever been performed in its entirety (although when I asked singer Phil May about it recently he was quite keen about doing a tour of SF Sorrow and Parachute if he could persuade the relevant musicians to play) and was captured on the album [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Resurrection-Pretty-Things/dp/B0002N4ZEC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_h__3]Resurrection[/url].

[Myke]

Isn't RENT one? That's doing well.

Good luck

[Monckyman]

Why not just write a decent LP instead?
Then people might listen to it.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1368961734' post='2083377']
They performed it live at the Abbey Road studios in 1998 with Arthur Brown doing the narration and guest guitar from Dave Gilmour. Apparently this was the only time it's ever been performed in its entirety (although when I asked singer Phil May about it recently he was quite keen about doing a tour of SF Sorrow and Parachute if he could persuade the relevant musicians to play) and was captured on the album [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Resurrection-Pretty-Things/dp/B0002N4ZEC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_m_h__3]Resurrection[/url].
[/quote]

Interesting - thanks for the correction. I didn't know about that, probably because I didn't discover the album until a few years after its release.

Edited May 19, 2013 by flyfisher

[JamesBass]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1368966428' post='2083439']
Why not just write a decent LP instead?
Then people might listen to it.
[/quote]

Already got an EP written with my band, we are just about to start recording, this is a work in progress, a continuous project I've started to push, develop and test myself, this is by no means something I'm undertaking for a laugh, this is going to be a long term project

[Monckyman]

Ok. No offence but Rock and Opera together to me makes crap.
Never heard a decent one including Tommy.
Good luck with it.

[apa]

Who do you think you are? Orson Wells??

Wasnt 'A Quick One' by The Who the embryo of the Rock Opera? Released in 1966.

Does War of the worlds count?

Good luck with your endevour.

A

[JamesBass]

Monckyman, that's fair enough, not gonna ever force you to listen to it, and I spose Rock Opera may not be the right term for it but it's the easiest way to describe it for now but, I'll see how it turns out!


Apa now I never thought about War of the Worlds, but what a fantastic soundtrack it is! Well the original anyway! And to answer your question, No I don't, I think and KNOW I am James Fox No not of Fame Academy, rather fortunately! Cheers for the well wishes though!

[Slatfatf]

Writing a Rock Opera!!

How can we follooooww!!!

[RhysP]

Ignore the haters, if it's something you feel passionately about doing then go for it & good luck with it.

[Steve G]

Sounds like a great idea to me.

As said above I think, a Rock Opera doesn't have to be a live show, it can work as a CD. What're your intentions, stage show or recording. No doubt they have done it live but Operation Mindcrime by Queensryche is often called a rock opera. I think that's a great album.

[EssentialTension]

Another Pretty Things fan here.

Good luck.

[KevB]

Jesus Christ Superstar was originally described as a rock opera rather than a musical. Must have paid its way commercially over the years I would have thought.

[skankdelvar]

Y'know, someone's done a musical thing entitled [url="http://www2.mcdaniel.edu/einsteinsdreams/"]Einstein's Dreams[/url], based upon the book of the same name by Mr Alan Lightman and which deals with - er - Einstein's dreams around the time he was a patent office clerk.

Not to say it's worth another go, mind you. Perhaps some inspiration may be drawn from Mr Rick Wakeman's early works of 'Journey To The Centre Of The Earth' and 'Myths and Legends of King Arthur' the latter being performed on ice at Wembley in '75.

Ice-capades begin at 1:10

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL9NJh_0oy4[/media]

Edited May 20, 2013 by skankdelvar

[BassTractor]

Demmit! "Einstein on Ice"? Whatever's wrong with "Einstein on the Beach"? It's not as if it's been done before!













Oh!




Seriously though, this plan might just turn out to put an undue pressure on your studies.
My background is that I studied composition for many years, and from that experience, my take would be:
I'd contemplate very much about what learning you can draw from each song on its own. This is the essential bit, as I think now is not the time to dream about masterpieces, but to write stuff that fits your developing as a composer.
IME this developing is best served not by few elaborate works but by [b]very varied, short and effective pieces[/b] that are set up and planned for exactly to help in that regard.

Your life and your choice of course, but I've been there, dreaming about my opera masterpiece when I was 19.

At any rate: good luck with whatever you choose!


best,
bert

Edited May 20, 2013 by BassTractor

[Cosmo Valdemar]

Inspired by a magazine that fell out of the Sunday papers, I once felt compelled to compose a rock opera based on the stages and developments of a woman's breasts. I vivdly recall the magazine being arranged in sections that suited the genre perfectly, e.g., "Chapter 6 - The Sagging Breasts of Old Age".

Alas I never got round to it, and the magazine, long since lost. Good luck with your endeavours.